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Holy Crap! Button has Andrew Copp as an A List Prospect !

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Old
09-22-2014, 04:50 PM
  #1
John Agar
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Holy Crap! Button has Andrew Copp as an A List Prospect !

Check this link out: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=461743

Look to the bottom of the Jets Season Preview.

He has Copp as an A lister ahead of Lowry and Komaschuk

I'm high on Copp, and I would like to see his ceiling being this high but.....

Discuss.

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09-22-2014, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Agar View Post
Check this link out: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=461743

Look to the bottom of the Jets Season Preview.

He has Copp as an A lister ahead of Lowry and Komaschuk

I'm high on Copp, and I would like to see his ceiling being this high but.....

Discuss.
I have Button as a D list analyst.

Still, it's not overly surprising that a few people would have one prospect they like more than most. If Button doesn't believe Lowry or Kosmachuk will be able to translate their skills to the NHL it makes sense.

He's also got Morrissey ahead of Ehlers, which I disagree with, and Comrie way ahead of Hellebuyck, which I agree with. Prospect rankings are always all over the board.


Last edited by Le Golie: 09-22-2014 at 05:01 PM.
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09-22-2014, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Agar View Post
Check this link out: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=461743

Look to the bottom of the Jets Season Preview.

He has Copp as an A lister ahead of Lowry and Komaschuk

I'm high on Copp, and I would like to see his ceiling being this high but.....

Discuss.
Discuss as in agree?

1290 replayed an interview with Button earlier today and he was emphatic about how he liked what the Jets were doing draft wise and brought up Copp's name on his own early into the interview. He feels he will be a very important player for the Jets , as do I .

I am not amazed at all , and I quite like the players behind him . I did have a chance to very briefly talk about Copp with both Zinger and Chevy , of course they were very vague , but when I asked about turning pro after the season , Zinger said we'll see , a lot will depend on his year . Chevy was more relaxed and we had a really good overall talk about Winnipeg as a whole and he asked me why I liked Copp as much as I do , when I told him , he said we see it very similarly.

So no , not the least bit surprised. Pronman has him high as well.

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09-22-2014, 05:02 PM
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Copp as a prospect has all the skills you would typically want as a 3rd line center.

I don't necessarily agree with calling him an A lister because I don't think his ceiling is high enough for that, but he's definitely a guy worth being excited about as a hockey fan.

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09-22-2014, 05:03 PM
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I like Copp, I think he can have a nice long career in the NHL. He's not a stud, but teams need bottom six players who can play.

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09-22-2014, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Agar View Post
Check this link out: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=461743

Look to the bottom of the Jets Season Preview.

He has Copp as an A lister ahead of Lowry and Komaschuk

I'm high on Copp, and I would like to see his ceiling being this high but.....

Discuss.
Button obviously hasn't run the NHLE's on Copp. Ceiling is Slater.

More seriously, I've heard Button say this about Copp several times. He really likes him. I wonder if it' all based on several in-person viewings like at the WJHC, or whether he's also hearing that from other scouts that he knows. I really liked Copp's game at the WJHC, but that's a fairly small sample size to go on. Being named the captain for the Wolverines is no small issue, I think. He obviously has leadership traits.

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09-22-2014, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Copp as a prospect has all the skills you would typically want as a 3rd line center.
Not saying he is above that role , but in this case , this article , A list refers to a top 6 forward.

For me he has a great blend of attributes that will translate well to the NHL. IF he can score or how well he ends up scoring in the NHL will ultimately determine his slot. The other pieces should be pretty much a given imo.


Last edited by jetkarma: 09-22-2014 at 05:10 PM.
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09-22-2014, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Button obviously hasn't run the NHLE's on Copp. Ceiling is Slater.

More seriously, I've heard Button say this about Copp several times. He really likes him. I wonder if it' all based on several in-person viewings like at the WJHC, or whether he's also hearing that from other scouts that he knows. I really liked Copp's game at the WJHC, but that's a fairly small sample size to go on. Being named the captain for the Wolverines is no small issue, I think. He obviously has leadership traits.
Plus extreme competitiveness.

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09-22-2014, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Button obviously hasn't run the NHLE's on Copp. Ceiling is Slater.

More seriously, I've heard Button say this about Copp several times. He really likes him. I wonder if it' all based on several in-person viewings like at the WJHC, or whether he's also hearing that from other scouts that he knows. I really liked Copp's game at the WJHC, but that's a fairly small sample size to go on. Being named the captain for the Wolverines is no small issue, I think. He obviously has leadership traits.
Yes. Being made Captain of Michigan is no small feat. Yes a small sample size, but I think I can dredge up enough quality streams to watch the Wolverines games this year - see how he progresses and my sample size of views will rise above what I saw at WJHC.

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09-22-2014, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
I like Copp, I think he can have a nice long career in the NHL. He's not a stud, but teams need bottom six players who can play.
This may be semantics but imo you can be a third or fourth line stud . My view is you try to build your team where you are a plus at every position or at as many as you can be. IMO Andrew Copp will end up being a plus player for us wnerever he eventually slots in . Having better skilled , more elite players ahead of him ie Scheifele or Little , isn't a knock at all , not at all.

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09-22-2014, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Not saying he is above that role , but in this case , this article , A list refers to a top 6 forward.

For me he has a great blend of attributes that will translate well to the NHL. IF he can score or well he ends up scoring in the NHL will ultimately determine his slot. The other pieces should be pretty much a given imo.
Yeah, I saw how A level prospect denotes top 6er, but that's what I disagree with. I just don't see his game transferring that seamlessly from College to the pros to keep a top 6 role.

I think he can become a very good bottom 6er and one that the fans will really enjoy.

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09-22-2014, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
This may be semantics but imo you can be a third or fourth line stud . My view is you try to build your team where you are a plus at every position or at as many as you can be. IMO Andrew Copp will end up being a plus player for us wnerever he eventually slots in . Having better skilled , more elite players ahead of him ie Scheifele or Little , isn't a knock at all , not at all.
I totally agree there are 3rd and 4th line studs.
In the context of being a prospect, I don't think he's a stud.

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09-22-2014, 05:18 PM
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Does anyone get a Kris Draper gestalt about Copp?
Draper is another guy with Winnipeg and Michigan connections, who was not blessed with great talent, but managed to win at every level for his entire, lengthy, award-laden career.

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09-22-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Yeah, I saw how A level prospect denotes top 6er, but that's what I disagree with. I just don't see his game transferring that seamlessly from College to the pros to keep a top 6 role.

I think he can become a very good bottom 6er and one that the fans will really enjoy.
Honestly even as a long time proponent for him , that is something I am not counting on , being able to score at a 2nd line C pace. Possible , but not as certain as saying he should score enough to be a positive factor in a mid 6 role. I do see his game transitioning easily or fairly easily , just the scoring component has to be determined imo. Let's see if he scores at a 1.25 rate this year, that would make it easier to envision he could score enough in the future to be either a PLUS 3C or perhaps a 2C .

Regardless if he becomes what some think he will be , we will have a very very good F to add to the mix. I have said before and after being in Penticton , I still feel Lowry at LW , Copp at C and Kosmachuk at RW would be a really good line , or could be. Saying that , I do know and think they want Lowry as that big C to go forward with.

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09-22-2014, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Does anyone get a Kris Draper gestalt about Copp?
Draper is another guy with Winnipeg and Michigan connections, who was not blessed with great talent, but managed to win at every level for his entire, lengthy, award-laden career.
I have mentioned Draper several times in discussions about Copp . Draper while not a great scorer , was imo a great hockey player and contributed heavily to his team winning. I also believe Copp has more innate talent . Works for me

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09-22-2014, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
I like Copp, I think he can have a nice long career in the NHL. He's not a stud, but teams need bottom six players who can play.
The article says he is a future top 6 forward.

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09-22-2014, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
The article says he is a future top 6 forward.
And I like Copp and think he'll be a bottom 6 forward

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09-22-2014, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
Does anyone get a Kris Draper gestalt about Copp?
Draper is another guy with Winnipeg and Michigan connections, who was not blessed with great talent, but managed to win at every level for his entire, lengthy, award-laden career.
gestalt, too?

I wonder when I'll stop learning about german words in the english language.

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09-22-2014, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
Discuss as in agree?

1290 replayed an interview with Button earlier today and he was emphatic about how he liked what the Jets were doing draft wise and brought up Copp's name on his own early into the interview. He feels he will be a very important player for the Jets , as do I .

I am not amazed at all , and I quite like the players behind him . I did have a chance to very briefly talk about Copp with both Zinger and Chevy , of course they were very vague , but when I asked about turning pro after the season , Zinger said we'll see , a lot will depend on his year . Chevy was more relaxed and we had a really good overall talk about Winnipeg as a whole and he asked me why I liked Copp as much as I do , when I told him , he said we see it very similarly.

So no , not the least bit surprised. Pronman has him high as well.
so we're back to this discussion about Copp! Where exactly do you have him rated Karma - as in do you think he is a better prospect than Petan, Lowry, Comrie, Helley, Kosmachuk...

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09-22-2014, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Button obviously hasn't run the NHLE's on Copp. Ceiling is Slater.

More seriously, I've heard Button say this about Copp several times. He really likes him. I wonder if it' all based on several in-person viewings like at the WJHC, or whether he's also hearing that from other scouts that he knows. I really liked Copp's game at the WJHC, but that's a fairly small sample size to go on. Being named the captain for the Wolverines is no small issue, I think. He obviously has leadership traits.
I know you are kidding, but some thought that was my argument haha

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09-22-2014, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
This may be semantics but imo you can be a third or fourth line stud . My view is you try to build your team where you are a plus at every position or at as many as you can be. IMO Andrew Copp will end up being a plus player for us wnerever he eventually slots in . Having better skilled , more elite players ahead of him ie Scheifele or Little , isn't a knock at all , not at all.
I agree with what you are saying. I firmly believe a player can be a plus player or a difference maker even if they do not slot into the traditional top six forward role. I am a big Andrew Copp fan and he does have the look of a player who has the potential to perform a valuable multi dimensional role for an NHL team. I see him as an excellent second tier prospect.

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09-22-2014, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by troubabooster View Post
so we're back to this discussion about Copp! Where exactly do you have him rated Karma - as in do you think he is a better prospect than Petan, Lowry, Comrie, Helley, Kosmachuk...
I made my list in the mains quite a while back and had him in my top five . I also had him in the top five after the WJC , so right or wrong I have been consistent.

I was in Penticton and was able to not just see the games but had media access , so I was able to observe beyond just the game.

I would say one adjustment and this is said knowing it was such a small showing but I would place Helle lower than I had him previously.

I have Copp as a better prospect than Lowry and Kosmachuck ( although I really like both ) and honestly I flip flop for Copp or Petan to be rated higher than the other.

I saw Petan play in person this winter and to me his skating has improved and I've thought he is a wing in the pros and he played well there in Penticton. As a C I think he could be neutralized easier than on the wing , and am pleased to see it appears he will play there in the pre season games.

I liked Comrie's game and composure in the Young Stars tournament , but again such a small sample. Saying that the old goalie adage is affecting my placements for all Jets goalies on the prospect rankings and none for me at this time are ahead of Copp.

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09-22-2014, 09:01 PM
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Just thought I put it here, cos I've been sitting on this information for a while without any chance to use it yet:

Difference (by 5v5 goal differential per season) between best 10% and worst 10% Corsi for each depth position:

1st line: ~24-26 goals
2nd line: ~17-18 goals
3rd line: ~14-15 goals
4th line + depth: 5-8 goals

1st pair: 25-28 goals
2nd pair: 15-18 goals
3rd pair: 13-15 goals

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09-23-2014, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
I made my list in the mains quite a while back and had him in my top five . I also had him in the top five after the WJC , so right or wrong I have been consistent.

I was in Penticton and was able to not just see the games but had media access , so I was able to observe beyond just the game.

I would say one adjustment and this is said knowing it was such a small showing but I would place Helle lower than I had him previously.

I have Copp as a better prospect than Lowry and Kosmachuck ( although I really like both ) and honestly I flip flop for Copp or Petan to be rated higher than the other.

I saw Petan play in person this winter and to me his skating has improved and I've thought he is a wing in the pros and he played well there in Penticton. As a C I think he could be neutralized easier than on the wing , and am pleased to see it appears he will play there in the pre season games.

I liked Comrie's game and composure in the Young Stars tournament , but again such a small sample. Saying that the old goalie adage is affecting my placements for all Jets goalies on the prospect rankings and none for me at this time are ahead of Copp.
I need to see Copp play more, but I'd never rank him above most of the guys that you are. Hope you're right, it would be a nice surprise

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09-23-2014, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
I have Button as a D list analyst.

Still, it's not overly surprising that a few people would have one prospect they like more than most. If Button doesn't believe Lowry or Kosmachuk will be able to translate their skills to the NHL it makes sense.

He's also got Morrissey ahead of Ehlers, which I disagree with, and Comrie way ahead of Hellebuyck, which I agree with. Prospect rankings are always all over the board.

I'm with you on the bolded! Check out his videos from Ivan Hlinka on tsn. He appears to have lost count of his beers. Also, I feel like he has a tendency to pick out dark horses in a general sense. I'm thinking he might be excited about Copp because nobody else in the media knows who he is.
That said, I know less about him than a lot of guys around here but he seems like he could be a part of a bottom 6 on a good team.

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