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04-04-2014, 10:42 AM
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truck
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Perspective on Evander Kane's Down Year

Nothing mind-blowing here, just put out some real numbers to cut through media BS.

Quote:
Evander Kane having a great season? No, not really. He has been plagued by injuries and his production is down a bit. I am sure he would tell you as much himself. It is darn apparent that the kid is driven and wants to be better. Kaner has his a goal scoring drought, but some of the criticism being levied at him is ridiculous and unfounded.
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014/...anes-down-year

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04-04-2014, 10:44 AM
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thank you

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04-04-2014, 11:40 AM
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Kaner has his a goal scoring drought, but some of the criticism being levied at him is ridiculous and unfounded.
But... but... the moneyphone picture!

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04-04-2014, 11:53 AM
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But... but... the moneyphone picture!
But...but... racism. it's ridiculous. If Sheifele or Trouba had done that it would have been funny.

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04-04-2014, 11:54 AM
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Are there any numbers showing the difference between Kane's production on the top two lines and with guys like Scheifele and Wheeler, and compare that to his time and production with O'Dell and Hali?

Just wondering (and guessing), that maybe his "down" year won't look so down if we took his production with quality linemates and projected it for the year (injury's aside)?

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04-04-2014, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Are there any numbers showing the difference between Kane's production on the top two lines and with guys like Scheifele and Wheeler, and compare that to his time and production with O'Dell and Hali?

Just wondering (and guessing), that maybe his "down" year won't look so down if we took his production with quality linemates and projected it for the year (injury's aside)?
I don't even think his production with Hali and O'Dell has been so bad (yeah, a bit down on the goals, but his assist production has been good, so goals have been scored)... Just keep him away from ****ing Olli Jokinen! And Gooch, but no one should have to play with Gooch.

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04-04-2014, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Nothing mind-blowing here, just put out some real numbers to cut through media BS.



http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014/...anes-down-year
I love Kane and his effort. He's only 22 & improving. But, I'll play devils advocate here. If we can get a top 5 and two good young players/prospects for him, I think we need to do it. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather it be Buff we trade, but no comparison in trade value (and perhaps in real value to the team).

I'm not convinced he follows the typical developmental curve where he peaks at 26. He's had 5 years in this league to figure stuff out (not 1-2 years like most guys on that chart). He's got major flaws in his game that has limited his ability to play with decent line-mates or to get any # 1 pp time. Those flaws are taking forever to be worked out.

I'm perfectly fine keeping him if we don't get overpaid in a trade, but he's got 1 maybe 2 more years to start producing like he should IMO. Ultimately it comes down to whether he fits in with the rest of the team and fits into management's plan for the future

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04-04-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by troubabooster View Post
I love Kane and his effort. He's only 22 & improving. But, I'll play devils advocate here. If we can get a top 5 and two good young players/prospects for him, I think we need to do it. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather it be Buff we trade, but no comparison in trade value (and perhaps in real value to the team).

I'm not convinced he follows the typical developmental curve where he peaks at 26. He's had 5 years in this league to figure stuff out (not 1-2 years like most guys on that chart). He's got major flaws in his game that has limited his ability to play with decent line-mates or to get any # 1 pp time. Those flaws are taking forever to be worked out.

I'm perfectly fine keeping him if we don't get overpaid in a trade, but he's got 1 maybe 2 more years to start producing like he should IMO. Ultimately it comes down to whether he fits in with the rest of the team and fits into management's plan for the future
If we become a better team, then trade him! I wish I had that G/60 comparables chart someone had posted for players through the same age as Kane.

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04-04-2014, 12:12 PM
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Great article.

Kane's second assist total is perhaps understandable when you realize that he's been playing with Olli/Gooch and O'Dell/Hali. They can score on his primary setups and rebounds, but expecting any of those forwards to continue the play resulting in a goal is unrealistic. The ratio of first assists to second assists is over 10 for Kane. That is a pretty amazing stat, and I'm going to nominate it for the "crappy line-mates" advanced stat.

I think that the Jets should hang onto Kane.

If they trade him, they better get a huge haul that includes the possibility of a high end forward (e.g. top-5 pick or very good prospect).

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04-04-2014, 12:13 PM
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Nice article. As I said yesterday, I am seeing a lot of "what have you done for me lately?" in regards to Kane. I'm willing to bet (if healthy and here, of course) he has a very strong season in 2014-15.

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04-04-2014, 01:26 PM
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IF KSW can stay together for 82 games next year, they will all have 60+ points. They are just that good. Book it.

Kane gets bounced around so much, and has recently been playing a lot with a guy who is currently sitting in the pressbox, an AHL callup, and MATT FREAKING HALISCHUK. Yeah, how dare you not score, Evander? If he gets a year with the guys who can keep up with him, I doubt people sing this tune for long.

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04-04-2014, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
But...but... racism. it's ridiculous. If Sheifele or Trouba had done that it would have been funny.
I think it's a mistake to assume the negative reaction to the moneyphone pic was driven by racism. Lundqvist caught similar flak for Tweeting about the roar of his Ferrari (or Lambo?) setting car alarms off in his parkade during the lockout.

If you want to see real examples of racism in the NHL, look at the Simmonds/banana incident in London, Ontario, or the reaction by Boston fans on Twitter after Joel Ward scored on Bruins in the playoffs a couple of years ago.

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04-04-2014, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
I think it's a mistake to assume the negative reaction to the moneyphone pic was driven by racism. Lundqvist caught similar flak for Tweeting about the roar of his Ferrari (or Lambo?) setting car alarms off in his parkade during the lockout.

If you want to see real examples of racism in the NHL, look at the Simmonds/banana incident in London, Ontario, or the reaction by Boston fans on Twitter after Joel Ward scored on Bruins in the playoffs a couple of years ago.
I would say the latter are examples of egregious, disgusting racism among NHL fans. Not the only racism among NHL fans.

That said, I strangely find it somewhat comforting that Lundqvist would get some grief for being a clueless millionaire as well.

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04-04-2014, 01:42 PM
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Great article truck!!I posted this on another thread.

On Evander Kane Elliotte Friedman said if TNSE want to trade him there will be a long line up of GM's that will be making offers. He gave an example of a GM making a call saying hey we are interested and this is what we have, it may not be enough but we want to be at the table. He said that goal scorers in the NHL are hard to find, young 30 goal scorers are extremely rare, and young 30 goal scorers on great contracts like Kane are impossible to find. Elliot said Chevy will be picky though because a trade, if completed, will have to be at a level of return that the Jets fans could look and go "I see what you are doing there and that makes sense". Real value has to be coming back.

I think that is important food for thought "maybe" some Jets fans might be falling into the trap of seeing Kane's faults and discounting what he actually can do.


Last edited by ps241: 04-04-2014 at 01:50 PM.
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04-04-2014, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troubabooster View Post
I love Kane and his effort. He's only 22 & improving. But, I'll play devils advocate here. If we can get a top 5 and two good young players/prospects for him, I think we need to do it. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather it be Buff we trade, but no comparison in trade value (and perhaps in real value to the team).

I'm not convinced he follows the typical developmental curve where he peaks at 26. He's had 5 years in this league to figure stuff out (not 1-2 years like most guys on that chart). He's got major flaws in his game that has limited his ability to play with decent line-mates or to get any # 1 pp time. Those flaws are taking forever to be worked out.

I'm perfectly fine keeping him if we don't get overpaid in a trade, but he's got 1 maybe 2 more years to start producing like he should IMO. Ultimately it comes down to whether he fits in with the rest of the team and fits into management's plan for the future

I think a lot of people are itchy to see moves made and aren't really considering whether our team becomes better as a result. I think Kane is a type of player you could attempt to replace for years after you trade him. If you're shopping a guy around in trade and 20 teams come with serious offers, you're probably about to make a mistake.

What flaws are you talking about that make it so he can't play with other good players? Pretty odd to make a blanket statement like that and say nothing specific.

He's only thrived whenever he has played with good players, seems more that both coaches have put him with players with less ability to create offence because he can do that and make them contributors.

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04-04-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Great article truck!!I posted this on another thread.

On Evander Kane Elliotte Friedman said if TNSE want to trade him there will be a long line up of GM's that will be making offers. He gave an example of a GM making a call saying hey we are interested and this is what we have, it may not be enough but we want to be at the table. He said that goal scorers in the NHL are hard to find, young 30 goal scorers are extremely rare, and young 30 goal scorers on great contracts like Kane are impossible to find. Elliot said Chevy will be picky though because a trade, if completed, will have to be at a level of return that the Jets fans could look and go "I see what you are doing there and that makes sense". Real value has to be coming back.

I think that is important food for thought "maybe" some Jets fans might be falling into the trap of seeing Kane's faults and discounting what he actually can do.
Ninja edit!

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04-04-2014, 01:53 PM
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Also to those saying "well Kane doesn't do this"....we also don't pay him as much as a player who did those things costs.

My take is we're operating on the assumption that kane isn't "that" type of player but for some reason holds the same value in trade. That's a pretty bold assumption.

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04-04-2014, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
I think it's a mistake to assume the negative reaction to the moneyphone pic was driven by racism. Lundqvist caught similar flak for Tweeting about the roar of his Ferrari (or Lambo?) setting car alarms off in his parkade during the lockout.

If you want to see real examples of racism in the NHL, look at the Simmonds/banana incident in London, Ontario, or the reaction by Boston fans on Twitter after Joel Ward scored on Bruins in the playoffs a couple of years ago.
Are people still talking about Lundqvist? I pay pretty close to attention to the NHL and I don't even remember that.

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04-04-2014, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
I think it's a mistake to assume the negative reaction to the moneyphone pic was driven by racism. Lundqvist caught similar flak for Tweeting about the roar of his Ferrari (or Lambo?) setting car alarms off in his parkade during the lockout.

If you want to see real examples of racism in the NHL, look at the Simmonds/banana incident in London, Ontario, or the reaction by Boston fans on Twitter after Joel Ward scored on Bruins in the playoffs a couple of years ago.
Hmm. Don't think it's explicit racism like the Ward/Simmonds incidents you mentioned but I would have a hard time agreeing there's no implicit racism surrounding the way Kane/Subban are talked about in the media.

When people call them cocky and say they act like they're from another sport it's not hard to read between the lines there.

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04-04-2014, 01:59 PM
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Ninja edit!
I read it before the Ninja edit. I had a brief

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04-04-2014, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Ninja edit!
Good catch!

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04-04-2014, 02:04 PM
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I read it before the Ninja edit. I had a brief
Sorry truck after I posted I caught myself thinking wait.....I didn't check who wrote it (yikes). Sorry my friend you both write great articles that I learn allot from and my foot fault is because the quality of the material between you two is interchangeable in a good way.

last time I drop the ball like that.

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04-04-2014, 02:05 PM
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Well, unless we get an real knockout offer that would address some depth issues, big time (with some young players coming back).....I would rather let this 22 yr ole guy play all next year with an actual skilled puck distributor (Scheifele)....and see what he makes of that.....

Our bigger problems, right now is getting more actual NHL guys into our bottom tiers, both at forward and D....to say nothing about the goaltending...

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04-04-2014, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BigZ65 View Post
I think a lot of people are itchy to see moves made and aren't really considering whether our team becomes better as a result. I think Kane is a type of player you could attempt to replace for years after you trade him. If you're shopping a guy around in trade and 20 teams come with serious offers, you're probably about to make a mistake.

What flaws are you talking about that make it so he can't play with other good players? Pretty odd to make a blanket statement like that and say nothing specific.

He's only thrived whenever he has played with good players, seems more that both coaches have put him with players with less ability to create offence because he can do that and make them contributors.
Looking at the long term depth chart makes trading him terrifying unless the return is multiple forwards with top 6 upside.

As of right now, I don't think anybody but Kane and Scheif has confirmed top 6 upside. In the prospect pool, I'd say Petan for sure does - everybody else is a long shot, but he is still a lotto ticket.

If you move Kane, where does that put the Jets in 3 years?

What if moving him doesn't lift the team into the playoffs and this causes Buff and Ladd to walk?

Many scary possible outcomes if the return isn't just right.

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04-04-2014, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Sorry truck after I posted I caught myself thinking wait.....I didn't check who wrote it (yikes). Sorry my friend you both write great articles that I learn allot from and my foot fault is because the quality of the material between you two is interchangeable in a good way.

last time I drop the ball like that.
Lol. I was kidding. I wasn't actually sad.

It happens a lot, especially on Twitter. Sometimes even in the comment section.

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