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Old
05-01-2013, 01:29 AM
  #901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikMacNorrison View Post
i think we've reached a point where we have a quantity of quality prospects and not everyone can play for us unfortunately. so if only i'd package one of these to move up to get higher quality instead.
My thoughts exactly.

The Sens have the organizational depth to, if they feel as though there's a guy within their reach (via a trade) who is an absolute home-run pick, pull the trigger and make a statement at the draft.

If our 17th and like... "Puempel+?", for instance... can get us a guy who will be a game-changer for the next 10-years, we have the ability to do that, then you need to look real hard at that option. We are crazy-deep in the farm right now, but we lack a real "blue chip" guy. Ceci and Noesen are great, but a top-8 pick in this draft would be a ridiculous win for this organization.

I won't be upset if we don't move up (I trust the Murrays/Dorion), but I think the organization has the assets to make a real move at the draft without really making a dent in our long-term sustainability.

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05-01-2013, 02:41 AM
  #902
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He has one year of major junior hockey - lets try not to write-off people as being at best a 3C based on their rookie season in the Q. Secondly - he won't be around by the time we pick.
I'm not writing anyone off.. I'm just going off of what I've read and what some scouts have said. Some people have given him negative reviews. I've never seen him listed anywhere near the top 10, therefore the possibility of him being available in the 15-20 range is very possible. I'm not a pro scout, I've only seen him play a few times, but I do read a lot about prospects and I'm only relaying what I have read.

Some scouts weren't impressed with his showing at the worlds, they ragged on his consistency during that tourney and his regular season. That's not even mentioning the poor showing he had in the Q playoffs. He is a first year player in major junior and appeared to hit a wall the last 20 games or so.. How much of that was do to not being used to the wear of a long season, or a player unable to adjust to more pressure.

I'll admit I was intrigued by him about a month or two ago.. What I do know is he is a sound two way player, and scored at a ppg for most of the year. I've heard some say 3C with the possibility of 2C best case scenario. Pretty common for someone slated to be picked after 15.. But like I said that's based on what I've read via scouts.

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05-01-2013, 03:44 AM
  #903
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Normally I would be far in favour of moving up in the draft, but there's a number of excellent prospects that should be available in the 2nd this year. In a normal draft year there's no way guys like Bailey, Nastasiuk, Heatherington should be going in the 2nd round. The prospects of picking up one of these players, along with a Burakowsky, Lazar, Hartman, is pretty exciting.

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05-01-2013, 03:58 AM
  #904
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By this point in the season I usually have 5-6 guys that I like in the draft. Not sure if it's because of the compressed NHL schedule, but this year there are only 2 guys that I like that we realistically have a shot at, Zadorov and Hartman. I trust the Murray's and Dorion to get us the BPA (they've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they deserve the trust of the fan base) but I think both these guys would fill such massive roles for us.

Zadorov is pretty self explanatory, he brings a serious size and grit element to our back end, and could form a pretty intimidating pairing with Gryba one day. He also has the potential to grow offensively, so that's a bonus. Hartman is just such a great fit as far as bringing a mixture of grit and offense to the table. There's probably a better comparison out there, but I can't help but see Dorsett with a scoring touch when I watch him play. I know the Sens need an offensive winger first and foremost, but having this guy out there on the ice with Zibby and Noesen would be such a treat.

I'd also like to add another goalie to the mix at some point, since Brassard hasn't been overly impressive (to me anyways) and Driedger is far from a sure thing.

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05-01-2013, 04:03 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
By this point in the season I usually have 5-6 guys that I like in the draft. Not sure if it's because of the compressed NHL schedule, but this year there are only 2 guys that I like that we realistically have a shot at, Zadorov and Hartman. I trust the Murray's and Dorion to get us the BPA (they've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they deserve the trust of the fan base) but I think both these guys would fill such massive roles for us.
Zadorov = Russian = will probably never be drafted by the Sens with a 1st round pick, if he's still available. Whether it's fair or not, that's the way it seems to be with Murray & his scouting staff.

Source: Bryan Murray's draft record.
- Hasn't taken a Russian in the 1st round since '94 with Detroit (when the Red Wings drafting Russians was "a thing")
- Has only taken 4 Russians TOTAL in the past 15 years (combined GM stints in Florida, Anaheim & Ottawa).

Here's a thread I made about it this past January.

I'm not saying we won't take a Russian, but I am saying that the odds that we do are VERY low.


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05-01-2013, 06:40 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by ErikMacNorrison View Post
i think we've reached a point where we have a quantity of quality prospects and not everyone can play for us unfortunately. so if only i'd package one of these to move up to get higher quality instead.
all i can say is short of guys like Zibanejad Silfverberg or Cowen, our guys from our prospect pool combined with our pick i guess you guys are suggesting(which never happens in the draft) will not get us to move up that much i just don't see it.

i don't understand, you guys think Noesen and the 17th overall pick can get you in the top what 6-8?

if we had Monahan on a silver platter would you move back for the 17th pick plus Noesen?

Also in order for your theory's to work guys someone out their has to think that the draft is deep and they can get quality later not quantity. It's not about just getting more picks.

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05-01-2013, 10:23 AM
  #907
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Only pick I could see maaaaybe available in the top 10 is Edmonton, but they'll want a roster player like Cowan for it.... Really don't see a way of getting into the top 10 at all.

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05-01-2013, 06:25 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by JonnyMacSen View Post
Only pick I could see maaaaybe available in the top 10 is Edmonton, but they'll want a roster player like Cowan for it.... Really don't see a way of getting into the top 10 at all.
Probably not.. Cowen is an NHLer, drafting a first rounder is and will always be a game of roulette. Not every prospect pans out, therefore a roster player like Cowen given his age would yield far more. A first and a pair of seconds could provide a considerable jump for any team looking to move up.

We'd have to give up our first and picks to move up, prospects are rarely ever included in move up trades at the draft.

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Old
05-04-2013, 12:49 PM
  #909
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I'm down to package prospects and move up (Shinkaruk or Domi) or trade for an established player(s) at this draft.

So many questions going into next year (i.e., Alfie, Spezz, Phillips, Gonch, Zibby as a 3rd line centre, etc).

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05-04-2013, 10:39 PM
  #910
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I'm starting to fall in love with Ryan Hartman the more and more I watch some clips of him..

Ryan Callahan Jr. and was a teammate of Noesen this year so our scouts surely have had time to see him at work. Also played for the US in the WJC this past year.


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05-04-2013, 10:58 PM
  #911
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Size, size, energy, and strength please

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05-04-2013, 11:51 PM
  #912
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i want monahan so badly ;_;

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Old
05-10-2013, 10:23 PM
  #913
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A guy to really keep an eye on is Bo Horvart in London. He is having a terrific series and basically carrying London on his back. Sens love taking guys that are fast risers and have elevated their games in the playoffs and when it counts.

Karlsson - Fast, fast riser late near the draft. We wanted OEL as well in 2009 when he was rising fast too. Just missed out.

Zib - Dorion and Tim raved about how he really stepped up late and was easily able to play with the older men.

Noesen - Absolutely was ripping it up late in his draft year and had apparently really caught their eye as well.

I see Horvart in the same boat. Could be there at 17 but if he continues, he will be gone around 10-12.

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05-11-2013, 07:29 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
My thoughts exactly.

If our 17th and like... "Puempel+?", for instance... can get us a guy who will be a game-changer for the next 10-years, we have the ability to do that, then you need to look real hard at that option. We are crazy-deep in the farm right now, but we lack a real "blue chip" guy. Ceci and Noesen are great, but a top-8 pick in this draft would be a ridiculous win for this organization.

I won't be upset if we don't move up (I trust the Murrays/Dorion), but I think the organization has the assets to make a real move at the draft without really making a dent in our long-term sustainability.
Would not trade a D like Ceci, Wiercioch or Gryba as part of the package; maybe a forward like DaCosta, Petersson. I think in reality it will take more.

Michalek, O'Brien and our 1st to one of Calgary, Edmonton (they'll want D), Buffalo, Carolina, Nashville for their 1st and something.

Of the above Nashville might be interested. Monahan will not get past New Jersey.

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05-11-2013, 08:31 AM
  #915
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We'll be moving into the 20's now that we made the second round now no? I think the Monahan dream might be dead at this point, its just to far to move up.

I guy like Jason Dickinson may still be available though, who I think would be a solid pick in that range. Also any of Bo Horvat, Hagg, Bowey, Hartman, Rychel, Lazar, Klimchuk, Zykov or De La Rose I'd be happy with, or making a trade for a more NHL ready prospect.

Either way I still think we'll come out satisfied with this draft, in Murray we trust

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05-11-2013, 09:14 AM
  #916
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The Sens draft position only changes if they make the Conference Finals - so for now, they'd still be slotted at #17.

Players I like in that range would include Bo Horvat, Ryan Hartman, Max Domi(!), or perhaps Kerby Rychel.

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05-11-2013, 11:46 AM
  #917
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Isn't it funny how we thought we badly needed depth on D last year and now going forward it looks good.

First Last Age
Erik Karlsson 23
Marc Methot 28
Jared Cowen 22
Chris Philips 35
Eric Gryba 25
Patrick Wiercioch 23
Mark Borowiecki 24
Cody Ceci 19
Fredrik Claesson 20
Troy Rutkowski 21
Mikael Wikstrand 19
Ben Blood 24
Michael Sdao 24
Chris Wideman 23

I think this year a good direction would be a forward either with elite scoring touch (Horvat) or a big two way guy (Gauthier, Wennberg)

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05-11-2013, 12:00 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by R2010 View Post
Isn't it funny how we thought we badly needed depth on D last year and now going forward it looks good.

First Last Age
Erik Karlsson 23
Marc Methot 28
Jared Cowen 22
Chris Philips 35
Eric Gryba 25
Patrick Wiercioch 23
Mark Borowiecki 24
Cody Ceci 19
Fredrik Claesson 20
Troy Rutkowski 21
Mikael Wikstrand 19
Ben Blood 24
Michael Sdao 24
Chris Wideman 23

I think this year a good direction would be a forward either with elite scoring touch (Horvat) or a big two way guy (Gauthier, Wennberg)
curious to see what rutkowski and wikstrand can do. Going forward past phillips we'll have karlsson, methot, cowen, wiercioch, gryba, ceci, boro as guys that should make for a good group (to start at least). I don't really see the rest of them jumping ahead of those guys but things change.

As for draft, i want big and strong so Gauthier, Mantha.

EDIT: or just trade a monster package for Tom Wilson (washington would be crazy so it's not serious but please murray make it happen) I might have taken wilson over ceci at 15, but i'd have to see a lot more of both to make that final decision.


Last edited by Icelevel: 05-11-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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05-11-2013, 12:11 PM
  #919
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curious to see what rutkowski and wikstrand can do. As for draft, i want big and strong so Gauthier, Mantha.
Big & strong? Mantha? Not sure they go in the same sentence.

Big, yes. Strong, maybe.

He doesn't show it on the ice. He's comparable to Spezza in that regard. Big body, but is soft and isn't physical. Alot of people question his compete level aswell.

If he used his 6'4 frame better and competed on every shift, I'm sure he'd a be a surefire top 10 pick maybe even top 5.

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05-11-2013, 12:20 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
curious to see what rutkowski and wikstrand can do. Going forward past phillips we'll have karlsson, methot, cowen, wiercioch, gryba, ceci, boro as guys that should make for a good group (to start at least). I don't really see the rest of them jumping ahead of those guys but things change.

As for draft, i want big and strong so Gauthier, Mantha.

EDIT: or just trade a monster package for Tom Wilson (washington would be crazy so it's not serious but please murray make it happen)

I wouldn't pick size over a faller with a ton of skill but if we were left with a couple of guys like Gauthier and Mantha we would be in good shape. Mantha isn't exactly the toughest big guy so I would probably lean towards Gauthier who is a good two-way guy and is a good skater for his size. You can teach a big guy who can skate to hit and fight and in our division (Toronto, Boston, Montreal) it can't hurt.

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05-11-2013, 12:42 PM
  #921
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Big & strong? Mantha? Not sure they go in the same sentence.

Big, yes. Strong, maybe.

He doesn't show it on the ice. He's comparable to Spezza in that regard. Big body, but is soft and isn't physical. Alot of people question his compete level aswell.

If he used his 6'4 frame better and competed on every shift, I'm sure he'd a be a surefire top 10 pick maybe even top 5.
Mantha will stand up for team mates and drop the gloves if he has to and can at least hold his own. That is a good sign and starting point. He will get stronger and if he's going to make it in the nhl and especially in ottawa he will be giving the effort every night.

I haven't studied/seen the players around our spot enough though to say who would be best where we are picking. i'm just saying we could really use a big body who has top 6 potential and these 2 look like they could be that.

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05-11-2013, 01:01 PM
  #922
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all i can say is short of guys like Zibanejad Silfverberg or Cowen, our guys from our prospect pool combined with our pick i guess you guys are suggesting(which never happens in the draft) will not get us to move up that much i just don't see it.

i don't understand, you guys think Noesen and the 17th overall pick can get you in the top what 6-8?

if we had Monahan on a silver platter would you move back for the 17th pick plus Noesen?

Also in order for your theory's to work guys someone out their has to think that the draft is deep and they can get quality later not quantity. It's not about just getting more picks.
While in general I agree with you opinion, I do believe there are situations that may cause a GM to consider moving a high 1st round pick (1 being highest) for a lower 1st and a prospect in what is considered a deep draft.

Few teams have had the success the Sens have had at developing their draft picks, so a GM that needs more immediate results just might jump at Prince or Pageau or Hoffman plus Sens 1st.

Just my opinion, but I could see a couple of teams currently drafting in the 2 thru 8 spots being interested in making a deal for their pick.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 05-11-2013 at 01:18 PM.
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05-11-2013, 01:12 PM
  #923
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While in general I agree with you opinion, I do believe there are situations that may cause a GM to consider moving a higher 1st round pick for a lower 1st and a prospect in what is considered a deep draft.

Few teams have had the success the Sens have had at developing their draft picks, so a GM that needs more immediate results just might jump at Prince or Pageau or Hoffman plus Sens 1st.

Just my opinion, but I could see a couple of teams currently drafting in the 2 thru 8 spots being interested in making a deal for their pick.
I see it as a bit if the opposite than you. Teams like the Flames who have been horrendous at the draft table might prefer to move back and pick up an additional asset giving them a better chance on hitting on another pick. Especially since this is considered a deep draft.

Ottawa is terrific at the draft table to moving up to grab a guy we have rated high should be a priority. Our prospect pool is full of talent, so we can afford losing a pick or prospect in exchange for moving up a handful of spots.

Just my theory/hope anyways.

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05-11-2013, 01:16 PM
  #924
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I see it as a bit if the opposite than you. Teams like the Flames who have been horrendous at the draft table might prefer to move back and pick up an additional asset giving them a better chance on hitting on another pick. Especially since this is considered a deep draft.

Ottawa is terrific at the draft table to moving up to grab a guy we have rated high should be a priority. Our prospect pool is full of talent, so we can afford losing a pick or prospect in exchange for moving up a handful of spots.

Just my theory/hope anyways.
I believe we agree, it appears my wording wasn't as clear as it should have been.

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05-11-2013, 01:20 PM
  #925
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If we want a powerforward type, Adam Erne is our guy, he already has NHL size, shot and skating. He has very underrated hands, goes to the dirty areas as well. Just an all around player in the top 6, would be a top 10 pick if he was in any other draft.

I doubt he will still be there at #17 though, but we seen players like Forsberg and Grigo drop last year, there is always 1 player that surprises and drops every year.

As for Horvat, I am surprised you guys like him that much, I see his ceiling as a #3 C. don't see much offensive potential in there for a top 6 Center.

My rankings for the players that might be around #17 is.

Domi
Erne
Mantha
Rychel
then Hartman ( I think he is the safest player of them all)

One player to look out for is Samuel Morin, a monster on the back end, a 6'7 smooth skating dman than can make a good first pass, has a mean streak and very physical. Has risen up in the rankings with his play in the playoffs, just under a PPG where he worked the powerplay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKXPCch0dFU

He ended this kid in the fight, he was in Canada's U18 this year as well. He is one of the youngest in the draft, still very raw. Could be a steal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXBsU3Tl1JA

I wouldn't be surprised if he was picked in the 1st round between 20-30, but is likely a high 2nd round pick now, I wish we still had one.

My 1st post


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