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2012 MLB Thread Part III

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Old
10-03-2012, 03:09 PM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
Also, look at the Mets bullpen and look at the Orioles bullpen and tell me that they don't decide games as well.
So now we're talking about an entire bullpen? The argument here is one starter verse one reliever. If we're referring to the entire bullpen, let's make the comparison against an entire starting staff.

An individual starter is way more valuable than an individual reliever. They pitch 3-4x the innings.


Last edited by Feed Me A Stray Cat: 10-03-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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10-03-2012, 03:27 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
Yea, a triple crown winner on a team that needed a late surge to make the playoffs shouldn't win the MVP.
Cabrera has had an impressive year, but Trout should be the MVP. He's a much better fielder and a much better baserunner, which makes up for the slight hitting disadvantage he has compared to Cabrera.

I know a lot of people don't like to go by WAR, but Trout's WAR is phenomenal.

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10-03-2012, 03:29 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Cabrera has had an impressive year, but Trout should be the MVP. He's a much better fielder and a much better baserunner, which makes up for the slight hitting disadvantage he has compared to Cabrera.

I know a lot of people don't like to go by WAR, but Trout's WAR is phenomenal.
The hitting is even debatable. Trout has a higher wRC+ and wOBA.

The triple crown is nice and everything, but I'm pretty shocked that people even still look at batting average and RBIs. They're pretty bad statistics compared to the newer stuff that's been developed.

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10-03-2012, 03:38 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
The hitting is even debatable. Trout has a higher wRC+ and wOBA.

The triple crown is nice and everything, but I'm pretty shocked that people even still look at batting average and RBIs. They're pretty bad statistics compared to the newer stuff that's been developed.
I don't know what the hell those two stats are. I was going by OPS, which does make BA tangentially relevant. Cabrera's is higher than Trout's, but not by enough that it should swing the MVP vote to him.

I think it's also impressive that Trout is doing this as a rookie. Shouldn't factor into the voting, but how could it not?

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10-03-2012, 03:45 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
I don't know what the hell those two stats are. I was going by OPS, which does make BA tangentially relevant. Cabrera's is higher than Trout's, but not by enough that it should swing the MVP vote to him.

I think it's also impressive that Trout is doing this as a rookie. Shouldn't factor into the voting, but how could it not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOBA

wRC+ is actually derived from wOBA, simply scales against average offensive production for that year (100 is always average, so Trout's 174 is 74% better than average, while Cabrera's 164 is 64% better than average) and adjusts for park factors.

wOBA has been proven to be a better statistic than OPS at explaining and forecasting run production.

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10-03-2012, 04:56 PM
  #256
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EDIT: Nevermind, should have Googled WAR first before posting. I still think anything that requires a computer to explain (and is partially subjective itself) is a bit of a garbage stat, like the BCS formula in college football.


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Old
10-03-2012, 07:13 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post

A good starter will pitch 75% of the game. A good reliever will pitch 12%. Who has a bigger effect on a team's chances of winning?
It's not that I disagree with you here, I just disagree with what the award is for. To me, value to the team shouldnt matter. That isn't written anywhere in the award. Straight up, kimbrel was a more effective pitcher than any of the starters up for contention. I feel like that is desrrvin of the award.

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10-03-2012, 07:28 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Rhodes 81 View Post
It's not that I disagree with you here, I just disagree with what the award is for. To me, value to the team shouldnt matter. That isn't written anywhere in the award. Straight up, kimbrel was a more effective pitcher than any of the starters up for contention. I feel like that is desrrvin of the award.
Thing is, just about any good reliever is going to have better splits than any good starter including K/9 because it's easier to blow stuff by batters one inning at a time and not have guys go through the lineup 3 and 4 times. There are setup guys that have similar numbers every year other than the K/9 ratio.

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10-03-2012, 07:33 PM
  #259
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I would never give the Cy Young to a closer.

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10-03-2012, 08:08 PM
  #260
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Will the Ibanez haters please stand up? I loved the signing in the offseason for exactly this reason.
I admit I absolutely hated it. He has been huge this last month and the first half he was pretty good. He has turned out to be a good signing.

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10-03-2012, 08:20 PM
  #261
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3-0 TB in the 4th - 2HRs from Longoria

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10-03-2012, 08:23 PM
  #262
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Are the Yankees playing? Im not home and MLB NYR is quiet

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10-03-2012, 08:25 PM
  #263
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If Dickey doesn't win the Cy Young I'm never watching baseball again.

Led the NL in innings pitched, strikeouts, second in ERA, and second in wins (only one less than Gonzalez and he played on a significantly worse team).

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10-03-2012, 08:29 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius Dangleaitis View Post
If Dickey doesn't win the Cy Young I'm never watching baseball again.

Led the NL in innings pitched, strikeouts, second in ERA, and second in wins (only one less than Gonzalez and he played on a significantly worse team).
Plus he's pitched every game since his second start with a torn right abdomen muscle, something that was just revealed today

Also, congrats to the A's on clinching the AL West - Rangers lead the West since April 9th and just succumbed the lead today

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10-03-2012, 08:49 PM
  #265
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Are the Yankees playing? Im not home and MLB NYR is quiet
Yup 7-1 Yankees in the bottom of the 6th.

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10-03-2012, 09:15 PM
  #266
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If Cabrera gets the triple crown and doesnt win MVP there's a problem

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Old
10-03-2012, 09:44 PM
  #267
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This pretty much guarantees he has the Triple Crown no?

Pretty cool story, never thought I'd finally see the day!

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10-03-2012, 11:12 PM
  #268
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The new season begins!!! **** Hockey.


I don't mean that keep your ***** in the conference room and get this ***t figured out.

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10-03-2012, 11:26 PM
  #269
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AL East Champs

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Old
10-03-2012, 11:34 PM
  #270
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10-03-2012, 11:50 PM
  #271
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I always thought those over the top celebrations were silly. Yes, you won the division, but it's not the big prize. I much prefer the way it's done in hockey.

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10-03-2012, 11:54 PM
  #272
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I always thought those over the top celebrations were silly. Yes, you won the division, but it's not the big prize. I much prefer the way it's done in hockey.
See I disagree on this one.

In hockey half the league makes the playoffs. In baseball you play everyday for the most part, constantly on the move from city to city. It's good to let loose, plus getting home field is a big deal. Keeping in mind that making it here in baseball is winning your first round match up in the NHL and NBA

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10-03-2012, 11:57 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Middletown Mike View Post
See I disagree on this one.

In hockey half the league makes the playoffs. In baseball you play everyday for the most part, constantly on the move from city to city. It's good to let loose, plus getting home field is a big deal. Keeping in mind that making it here in baseball is winning your first round match up in the NHL and NBA
Ok, but they still don't celebrate getting to the second round. Many teams don't even acknowledge the conference championship trophy. It's the Cup, and the Cup alone, that gets that kind of celebration.

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10-04-2012, 12:00 AM
  #274
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Each sport has uniquely different celebration traditions

Baseball has the longest regular season and goes for the longest period of time on the calendar so it doesn't hurt to let some steam loose after a long and sometimes draining season after being a top 8 out of 30 team

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10-04-2012, 12:01 AM
  #275
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Ok, but they still don't celebrate getting to the second round. Many teams don't even acknowledge the conference championship trophy. It's the Cup, and the Cup alone, that gets that kind of celebration.
Making the playoffs for teams is a huge deal in baseball, when half the league makes the playoffs its deluded. You are a top 8 team in the league and playing everyday is a much harder grind then they get credit for, I dont mind these celebrations because how many times during the year in a baseball season can you enjoy yourself without a game?

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