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Old
08-28-2012, 04:30 PM
  #26
Reed Solomon
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i dont think about it at all

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08-28-2012, 04:34 PM
  #27
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Atlanta could match Kovy's wages, but not his ambitions. Winnipeg could probably match both.

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08-28-2012, 04:53 PM
  #28
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I'm glad we didn't get stuck with the contracts that the Thrashers were reportedly offering him. As for the trade itself, I don't think much of it to be honest. It was nowhere near fair value but it was a lot better than nothing, which wasn't out of the question. Imagine the Jets last year without Byfuglien or Oduya - Jones might have been our number 5 or 6 . Overall I don't even think the trade ranks near the top as far as blunders by Thrashers management. I'm just thankful for the management the Jets have now and for each passing year moving them further away from what was by most accounts an embarrassment of an organization (although to be fair they definitely did start drafting better finally). Looking back on some of the things that organization did gives me more respect for the fans from Atlanta that have stuck around on our boards.

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08-28-2012, 08:40 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybreak View Post




Trades not already mentioned in this thread:
Brent Sopel (and Nigel Dawes) to MTL for Ben Maxwell (and 4th MTL in 2011, which we later traded along with 4th WPG 2011 for 3rd MTL 2011, and used to draft Brennan Serville)
Ben Eager to SJ for 5th in 2011 (Austen Brassard)
Akim Aliu to CGY for John Negrin
Does anyone know the current status of John Negrin?
I was a little curious on where and/or if he is headed in anywhere within the Jets/Caps/Eagles organizations.The only reason for asking is HF still has him ranked high as a Jets prospect (#3 defensive prospect).

BTW excellent question by the OP,its always interesting to analyze trades and (sometimes unexpected)results.

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08-28-2012, 10:00 PM
  #30
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I was probably cheering for Goldwater Institute at the time, so when the Thrashers and Devils made the trade I could care less. Looking at it today, I still don't care, all parties involved seem to be suceeding so no point on worrying about "what ifs".

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08-28-2012, 10:02 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CH3NO2 View Post
Does anyone know the current status of John Negrin?
I was a little curious on where and/or if he is headed in anywhere within the Jets/Caps/Eagles organizations.The only reason for asking is HF still has him ranked high as a Jets prospect (#3 defensive prospect).

BTW excellent question by the OP,its always interesting to analyze trades and (sometimes unexpected)results.

Signed with the Chicago Wolves of the AHL last week.

http://thehockeyhouse.net/vancouver-...hicago-wolves/

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08-29-2012, 01:48 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Guardian17 View Post
Signed with the Chicago Wolves of the AHL last week.

http://thehockeyhouse.net/vancouver-...hicago-wolves/
I'm a little fuzzy with this. What were the particulars of his contract and rights? Is he now considered a part of the Canucks' depth chart?

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08-29-2012, 06:50 AM
  #33
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I'm a little fuzzy with this. What were the particulars of his contract and rights? Is he now considered a part of the Canucks' depth chart?
No. A player can sign independently with an AHL team, only their AHL rights are signed. They are NHL UFA's, they can sign with any NHL team that they like at any point. If they sign with an NHL team, that NHL team could then reassign them to a different AHL team though.

The St. John's IceCaps had D Jason DeSantis, C John Albert, RW Jason King, C Marco Rosa, D Travis Ramsay and C Garth Murray all signed as independants last season, none of them were signed or protected by the Jets. It is quite common for strong AHL teams to sign talented veterans and even youngsters that have escaped NHL notice (DeSantis signed with Florida this past off-season, Burrows started like that) to bolster rosters (St. John's, Chicago, Hershey, Rochester are some examples of teams that like to employ this).

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Old
08-29-2012, 12:26 PM
  #34
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I disagree ....I remember Atlanta putting a 10 year 100 mill offer on the table before the trade happened and was turned down.......Atlanta just got the best deal they could trading a superstar as a 3 month rental........

I fault the Atlanta management for alot of things ,but not this trade.


My take on this is I would not fault Don Waddell for this - I would fault A$G because of the poisoned, neglectful atmosphere they fostered with the Thrashers. Waddell had been following Kovy around Russia a good while before Kovy was drafted as an 18 year-old. Waddell became even closer to Kovy when Kovy's father died at a relatively young age. My opinion, I believe Kovy would have signed if an ownership group similar to TNSE had been in place - the first thing he said in NJ was that he was with a world-class organization now - a slap at A$G? I think so. If as a fan I knew what junk the A$G was pulling, think what someone on the inside like Kovy knew. He had also built an elaborate house here where he lived with his wife (baby on the way), daughter, mother and often his sister - he felt very responsible for providing for all of these women - he has stated this - I can't argue with his decision o get away from A$G.

Some fans booed Kovy on his return (ironically I think the Thrasher blew out the Devils that night and Eric Boulton got the hat trick), and I was upset he had kept saying he wanted to sign, but then it became clear he would never sign with the Thrashers. My opinion is, I agree with him now though that full knowledge of A$G's creepiness is known.

One other factor,

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Old
08-29-2012, 01:26 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Dave512 View Post
Quick correction, as you noted above, those picks are from Chicago, not NJ.

As a former Thrasher fan, I was upset when Kovalchuk was dealt, as he was one of my favorite players. Best that the team got something for him though (as little as it's amounted to, apparently), since he wanted out anyway.

As it turns out, I ended up living in Albany NY, and buying seasons tickets to the Albany Devils with a crazy Devils fan friend, so I still root for Kovy in a way. Just not when he's playing the Jets!
Albany? Wow! Jets fans really are all over the place!

It would have been nice if Kovy stayed with the Thrashers, but I suppose since he would have walked anyways, what we ended up with wasn't bad at all.

I was always a huge Byfuglien fan, when he was with the Hawks and Thrashers, so I was super happy when he came with the reborn Jets.

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08-30-2012, 02:49 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by thrashniac View Post

My take on this is I would not fault Don Waddell for this - I would fault A$G because of the poisoned, neglectful atmosphere they fostered with the Thrashers. Waddell had been following Kovy around Russia a good while before Kovy was drafted as an 18 year-old. Waddell became even closer to Kovy when Kovy's father died at a relatively young age. My opinion, I believe Kovy would have signed if an ownership group similar to TNSE had been in place - the first thing he said in NJ was that he was with a world-class organization now - a slap at A$G? I think so. If as a fan I knew what junk the A$G was pulling, think what someone on the inside like Kovy knew. He had also built an elaborate house here where he lived with his wife (baby on the way), daughter, mother and often his sister - he felt very responsible for providing for all of these women - he has stated this - I can't argue with his decision o get away from A$G.

Some fans booed Kovy on his return (ironically I think the Thrasher blew out the Devils that night and Eric Boulton got the hat trick), and I was upset he had kept saying he wanted to sign, but then it became clear he would never sign with the Thrashers. My opinion is, I agree with him now though that full knowledge of A$G's creepiness is known.

One other factor,
My opinion on the whole thing was that Kovy found out/was told that Thrashers were going to be sold and moved.
I remember there was a story that came out after Ovechkin signed his 12 or whatever year deal that Kovy went to Don Waddell to ask when they were going to work on a contract like that for him.
I also want to say that it was sometime around 2010 that A$G renegotiated the Phillips Arena deal to remove the Thrashers as having to stay as tenants till 2020 or whatever it was.
As far as the trade goes, at the time Bergfors looked like he would be able to have a decent 20+ goal career in the league, Oduya was decent D-man, and Cromier was projecting to be a good 3rd line center.
I was happy with the return, it was leagues better than the Hossa and Coburn trades.

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Old
08-30-2012, 03:38 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by astrobuck View Post
My opinion on the whole thing was that Kovy found out/was told that Thrashers were going to be sold and moved.
I remember there was a story that came out after Ovechkin signed his 12 or whatever year deal that Kovy went to Don Waddell to ask when they were going to work on a contract like that for him.
I also want to say that it was sometime around 2010 that A$G renegotiated the Phillips Arena deal to remove the Thrashers as having to stay as tenants till 2020 or whatever it was.
As far as the trade goes, at the time Bergfors looked like he would be able to have a decent 20+ goal career in the league, Oduya was decent D-man, and Cromier was projecting to be a good 3rd line center.
I was happy with the return, it was leagues better than the Hossa and Coburn trades.
Ya, the trade was about the time I started hearing rumblings that it was going to be ATL potentially moving to WPG not PHX. I remember hearing that part of the reason Kovy wanted out was the day to day uncertainty of where the team would end up, not because it was WPG but just the unknown factor.

Anyways, that was just my recollection, as that was about the time I started paying SOME attention to Thrashers hockey based on the possibilities...

ASG really are one of those orgs that you could be really successful just by making the opposite move of anything they decide to do.

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Old
08-30-2012, 03:54 PM
  #38
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Ya, the trade was about the time I started hearing rumblings that it was going to be ATL potentially moving to WPG not PHX. I remember hearing that part of the reason Kovy wanted out was the day to day uncertainty of where the team would end up, not because it was WPG but just the unknown factor.

Anyways, that was just my recollection, as that was about the time I started paying SOME attention to Thrashers hockey based on the possibilities...

ASG really are one of those orgs that you could be really successful just by making the opposite move of anything they decide to do.
That's exactly what I think happened too. I don't think it was ever explicitly stated, but it was pretty easy to infer. This article was written nearly a year and a half before the team moved and 2 months before Kovy was traded:

Quote:
Kovalchuk can’t be guaranteed of anything: 1) That the Atlanta Spirit will keep the team and spend to keep and acquire players (according to NHLnumbers.com, the Thrashers rank only 23rd out of 30 teams in payroll); 2) That anybody who purchases the team will keep it in Atlanta and also spend to compete.

Look at the past. Look at the present. Look at the future. There is no reason for Kovalchuk to feel comfortable.
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-bl...valchuk-talks/

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Old
08-30-2012, 10:46 PM
  #39
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Looking at some old comments from Waddell before he dealt Kovy...

“Ultimately, we offered Kovy more than $101 million over 12 years, which would have been the highest contract signed by an impending unrestricted free agent in the history of the league. If accepted, this contract would have been the second highest offer ever to any NHL player. We also met his desire to be the highest paid player based on average annual salary with a separate offer of 7 years at $10M per year ($70M). This offer is $0.5M higher per year than any other player.

“If we went beyond these offers, we would not be able to retain the young players on our roster when it came time to sign them, or invest in other top tier players needed to assemble a truly competitive team. Therefore, we are aggressively exploring all of our options as we move forward.”

Also mentions that the Bruins were in the mix, but the Thrashers were demanding the Leafs #1 pick that year but the Bruins just weren't willing to part with it. No kidding.

Boy, Seguin would look good in Jets colors right about now with Kane on his wing, no?

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08-30-2012, 10:57 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
Albany? Wow! Jets fans really are all over the place!
Me being a Jets fan is very much an accident, but a happy one. I followed the Jets very closely on NHL Gamecenter Live last year, and anticipate continuing to do so for a very very long time to come. I just hope I can catch a live game at the MTS Centre at least once. Some day!

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08-31-2012, 12:31 AM
  #41
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I have mixed feelings on the Illya trade. On one hand, Atlanta didn't get nearly enough value for a top 5 winger in the NHL, even though Oduya was projected to be a top 4 defender at the time. Cormier was a few weeks removed from his junior incident and was suspended for the entire season. This was obviously a red flag not only from a behavioral standpoint, but a development standpoint as well. NJ was also known to be a perennial contender in the playoffs so their draft pics were assumed to be towards the bottom of the draft order.

On the other hand, it was clear that Illya had no interest in signing with the Thrashers even with a ridiculous contract offer in hand. It's clear however, that NJ won the trade hands down. They got rid of a troubled prospect and barely lost any assets (in hindsight) for a top forward in the NHL.

Would I have liked Ilya to stick with the franchise even with the proposed contract from Atlanta? Sure. He is worth the money IMO and would have made us a contender in the playoffs.

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08-31-2012, 12:30 PM
  #42
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I'm just glad when I opened this thread it wasn't about the Jets had made a trade
for Ilya Bryzgalov while I was gone on vacation.

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08-31-2012, 10:37 PM
  #43
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Atlanta basically got ripped for Kovalchuk.

It sucks when your star player wants out of town & you basically have to give him away.

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09-04-2012, 12:02 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by GermanJetsFan View Post
We're now 2,5 years after the Thrashers traded their best player in franchise history and Jets 2.0 franchise history. When the Thrashers traded him back in February 2010 it was a big day for the franchise and in the NHL. Ilya wanted to leave Atlanta and would not have resigned with the Thrashers, but im sure everybody remembers that.

Bunch of other stuff....
Just wanted to take a sec to correct this untruth... Kovy didn't want to leave Atlanta. If he did, how come his offseason home is still in Atlanta? What he wanted was a guarantee from A$G that the Thrashers would remain in Atlanta. They could not give that to him, so he decided to leave, despite the 10 year $100 million contract thrown his way.

Kovy puts his family before anything else. He wanted to be in a big market, yet one where he would pretty much be left alone with his family. that's why he chose New Jersey since Atlanta was off the table. Wasn't a slight against Winnipeg, Hamilton or Quebec (Which were the three cities on the table at the time), just his personal preference of what is best for his family.

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09-04-2012, 01:30 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by KevFist View Post
Just wanted to take a sec to correct this untruth... Kovy didn't want to leave Atlanta. If he did, how come his offseason home is still in Atlanta? What he wanted was a guarantee from A$G that the Thrashers would remain in Atlanta. They could not give that to him, so he decided to leave, despite the 10 year $100 million contract thrown his way.

Kovy puts his family before anything else. He wanted to be in a big market, yet one where he would pretty much be left alone with his family. that's why he chose New Jersey since Atlanta was off the table. Wasn't a slight against Winnipeg, Hamilton or Quebec (Which were the three cities on the table at the time), just his personal preference of what is best for his family.
Good post

I get it if Kovy his family to be raised in a city where they were left alone then he made the right choice for his family. Love it or hate it he would have been very high profile in the relo cities you listed.

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09-04-2012, 02:54 PM
  #46
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I'm fine with it. Even though the return left lots to be desired, I'd rather have big buff the kovalchuk. I've never really respected the guy as a player, abd if I'm honest, I don't believe that he's the kind of guy the True North would want on this team. Definitely not worth the 100mil that he was offered.

Just my opinion
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Originally Posted by Daddy Longlegs View Post
Don't have a problem with the trade at all. Kovalchuks talent is undeniable as we all know, but I never cared for his character. I also would be less than pleased with having his gigundo contract on our hands. And like others have said, a least we got some sort of value in his departure. If it would have been someone like Toews instead of Kovy in the exact same situation, contract and all, yes I'd be extremely choked.
I don't get this, especially coming from people that likely knew/know very little about him and haven't watched him over the years. Kovalchuck's character is definitely not a problem. His play style may not be the most desirable for True North, but his commitment to his team and passion for winning is undeniable and I think his short time in NJ has done nothing but confirm that.

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09-04-2012, 06:11 PM
  #47
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Went to one NJ game last year, and Kovy was arguably the best player on the ice. I was very impressed with his overall - and fairly complete - game. After seeing Ovechkin last year too, Kovy was a much better overall player, imo.

That said, i'm glad the Jets aren't saddled with a $10 mill/yr on a multi-year deal or a 10+ yr contract at a significant cap hit. I would give a contract like that (very high $, over many many years) to only a select few players... maybe Toews, Stamkos, Weber, Giroux (?), Crosby (?).

Too many situations where 2 or 3 yrs into the contract - you're asking yourself - what are we going to do about player x's contract? Way too much, and we can't move it/him. Though, if Chicago can get rid of Brian Campbell's contract, anything is possible.

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09-04-2012, 07:33 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by KevFist View Post
Just wanted to take a sec to correct this untruth... Kovy didn't want to leave Atlanta. If he did, how come his offseason home is still in Atlanta? What he wanted was a guarantee from A$G that the Thrashers would remain in Atlanta. They could not give that to him, so he decided to leave, despite the 10 year $100 million contract thrown his way.

Kovy puts his family before anything else. He wanted to be in a big market, yet one where he would pretty much be left alone with his family. that's why he chose New Jersey since Atlanta was off the table. Wasn't a slight against Winnipeg, Hamilton or Quebec (Which were the three cities on the table at the time), just his personal preference of what is best for his family.
That is a solid point and one to really take into consideration. I'd probably want to be left alone with my family too.

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09-04-2012, 07:38 PM
  #49
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I don't get this, especially coming from people that likely knew/know very little about him and haven't watched him over the years. Kovalchuck's character is definitely not a problem. His play style may not be the most desirable for True North, but his commitment to his team and passion for winning is undeniable and I think his short time in NJ has done nothing but confirm that.
I don't want to speak for individual posters, and this is just a personal observation of what I've seen in my time on HF Boards, but it's common that people automatically question players of Eastern European and North Asian decent.

They are characterized as 'lazy', 'selfish', 'broody', 'loners', 'not team players', 'puck hogs'.

Many times a player from this region is isolated due to culture shock or language barriers. There is also a difference in culture that may outwardly make it seem that the player is standoffish when really that is just his personality.

Again, I'm not saying this is the case in this particular instance, but I see it a lot. Many players from this region are every bit as passionate and team oriented as players from other areas of the globe, but just need time to acclimatize.

To me, Nik Antropov is a perfect example. Anyone who says Nik isn't passionate and doesn't want to win just isn't paying attention to him, and are judging based on the last 2 letters of his namebar IMHO.

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09-04-2012, 07:47 PM
  #50
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I don't want to speak for individual posters, and this is just a personal observation of what I've seen in my time on HF Boards, but it's common that people automatically question players of Eastern European and North Asian decent.
It's been proven true that NHL fans tend to think this of many players from former USSR countries... And it's been proven false on most of these players are indeed questionable...
Also, particular styles of play, roles, salaries and positions tend to get more love than others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
To me, Nik Antropov is a perfect example. Anyone who says Nik isn't passionate and doesn't want to win just isn't paying attention to him, and are judging based on the last 2 letters of his namebar IMHO.
Agreed; Antro is a very quality player, could play decent top6, PP and PK with injuries while being a top-teir third liner. Look how much Jet fans raved Wellwood but called for Antro to be traded for pucks... and then look at the numbers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Interesting Facts of the Day
...look at Wellwood's advance stats I posted, then look at Antropov... similar?

Name GP TOI Shots SH% 5V5 G/60 5V5 A1/60 5V5 A2/60
Antropov 69 12.42 95 15.8 0.77 0.70 0.28
Wellwood 77 12.69 93 19.4 0.74 0.68 0.74

For 5v5 */60 in the NHL for RWers:
Antropov was 42nd in G/60 and 29th in A1/60
Wellwood was 43rd in G/60 and 30th in A1/60

What differed them last year was TOI, secondary assists (which depend mostly on luck for forwards) and games played (and Antropov's sh% was near to his career average, unlike Wellwood)

Yet fans opinions on the two differ by quite a large margin... shows you what pts/$ and subjective perception can do to you.

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