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Old
12-17-2012, 07:39 PM
  #776
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I think Coyle would have to bulk up first.
He's plenty big. He just has to start using it.

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12-18-2012, 12:23 AM
  #777
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What do you guys think of Zucker now?

When we rated prospects earlier this year he ended up as nr 6-7?

Many of them are now in Houston and i think Zucker has shown much more of himself then f.ex Coyle, Phillips, Larsson.. And the reason isnt all Granlund..

I really hope he will continue to develop and maybe end up as a 2nd line winger that is capable of 20-30 goals and 50-60 points..

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12-18-2012, 12:58 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by SphinX View Post
What do you guys think of Zucker now?

When we rated prospects earlier this year he ended up as nr 6-7?
Now after an in-person look (wished I could have compared to Brodin), I'd have him at #2 or #3 among skaters behind Granlund and possibly Brodin. Some of that is Zucker's improvement, but most of that is other prospects disappointing me (particularly Coyle). Zucker is well ahead of Larsson, and Phillips isn't even on the same planet.

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12-18-2012, 02:24 AM
  #779
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Now after an in-person look (wished I could have compared to Brodin), I'd have him at #2 or #3 among skaters behind Granlund and possibly Brodin. Some of that is Zucker's improvement, but most of that is other prospects disappointing me (particularly Coyle). Zucker is well ahead of Larsson, and Phillips isn't even on the same planet.
Granlund is #1 Brodin is #2. Those two should not be argued. Period.

Mostly agree with this post..Zucker is a BEAST. I've given my predictions on him and hopefully like I have said before he is developing into the Wild's own version of Mike Cammalleri.

I think Phillips and Bulmer are the biggest disappointments to me..

Phillips' skating and consistency need big time work but he's a long term project always so thats fine.

Bulmer just an awful start and now injuries. Very disappointing after impressing with the Wild last year and his development of his offensive game at Kelowna last year.

Larsson may be farther along than I thought on the offensive side of the puck, I think we all knew the rest of his game was good already.

Coyle might just explode with offense here in the AHL soon, he is good. Really good. If Bouchard isn't ready to go whenever this lockout ends its him and Zucker head to head for that wing spot on the 3rd line IMO. Obviously Zucker has been unreal thus far but Coyle's size and defensive game give him a great chance to get that spot as well.

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12-18-2012, 02:29 AM
  #780
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Where I'd rank my prospects right now(with some analysis I didn't give in previous post)

Skaters:
1.Bertschy...Guys relax im kidding....


1.Granlund
2.Brodin
3.Coyle
4.Zucker
5.Larsson
6.Dumba-hasnt impressed this year..horrible WJC camp from the sounds of things
7.Phillips
8.Bulmer
9.Lucia-lighting it up since returning from injury..hopefully on team USA
10.Bussieries

Goalies:
1.Hackett-would like to see better numbers. Seems to be picking it up
2.Gustafsson-guy is way underrated..could be the best of the 3 in the long run
3.Kuemper-wanna see him steal more ice time from Hackett instead of going down to Orlando for spot starts

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12-18-2012, 02:36 AM
  #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keppel146 View Post
watched those aeros highlights. really like what I am seeing from coyle, granlund, and zucker.

Coyle shooting more: yeah, I feel if he gets fed from Koivu or Parise he will have some good chances to pot a few goals. Is that line unrealistic in the future? Imagine how hard that would be to play against. Parise-Koivu-Coyle
Ah the future line combos..too much fun just thinking about them

Parise-Koivu-Coyle
Heatley-Granlund-Setoguchi
Zucker-Larsson-Clutterbuck

Suter-Brodin
Scandella-Gilbert
Spurgeon

Good looking future we have there

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12-18-2012, 03:59 AM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
Ah the future line combos..too much fun just thinking about them

Parise-Koivu-Coyle
Heatley-Granlund-Setoguchi
Zucker-Larsson-Clutterbuck

Suter-Brodin
Scandella-Gilbert
Spurgeon

Good looking future we have there

If thing stay as thy are.. Wouldt Zucker and Coyle change places? based on skill, not style..

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12-18-2012, 08:23 AM
  #783
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People always had Coyle overrated a bit. 2nd line power forward is his projection.

Zucker, the opposite was true. The guy is on pace for 40 goals in the AHL. He could be a great goal scorer that fits anywhere in the top-9.

I got to say that I'm actually more excited for Brodin than Granlund.

Now that I've watched him more, I think Granlund's ceiling is Plekanec. Weak 1st line center. Pretty good 2nd line center. Other teams will be able to negate him if they focus on him. Which is why its awesome that we have Koivu, Brodziak, and maybe one day Larsson.

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12-18-2012, 08:29 AM
  #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
Ah the future line combos..too much fun just thinking about them

Parise-Koivu-Coyle
Heatley-Granlund-Setoguchi
Zucker-Larsson-Clutterbuck

Suter-Brodin
Scandella-Gilbert
Spurgeon

Good looking future we have there
No Heatley-Setoguchi! Terrible!

Parise-Koivu-Heatley - It would be dynamic every night, and they actually compliment each other well (on paper).

Coyle-Granlund-Zucker - Looks good.

Larsson-Brodziak-Setoguchi - Seto and Zucker can be swapped. Depending on who's playing better.

Missing? Clutterbuck is traded because he'll want 3 million/year, and then he'll be a 3 million/year 4th line on the Wild. The guy kills all offensive possession for whatever line he's on. Cullen is gone or re-signed as a 4th line center. Bouchard is retired.

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:31 AM
  #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
No Heatley-Setoguchi! Terrible!

Parise-Koivu-Heatley - It would be dynamic every night, and they actually compliment each other well (on paper).

Coyle-Granlund-Zucker - Looks good.

Larsson-Brodziak-Setoguchi - Seto and Zucker can be swapped. Depending on who's playing better.

Missing? Clutterbuck is traded because he'll want 3 million/year, and then he'll be a 3 million/year 4th line on the Wild. The guy kills all offensive possession for whatever line he's on. Cullen is gone or re-signed as a 4th line center. Bouchard is retired.
Looks great! The more I think of the C-G-Z line the more it makes sense. It looks like a well balanced and dynamic line, if they can transfer their game to NHL level. Zucker has been a positive surprise for me but he causes trouble in my head. I don't know if Seto or him should be in the second line. Could Zucker-Granlund Seto work?

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Old
12-18-2012, 09:40 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by TZM View Post
Looks great! The more I think of the C-G-Z line the more it makes sense. It looks like a well balanced and dynamic line, if they can transfer their game to NHL level. Zucker has been a positive surprise for me but he causes trouble in my head. I don't know if Seto or him should be in the second line. Could Zucker-Granlund Seto work?
I feel like Setoguchi and Zucker are too similiar to have on a line together. Both shooters. Both speedy. Both don't have great passing vision.

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Old
12-18-2012, 10:05 AM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
People always had Coyle overrated a bit. 2nd line power forward is his projection.
I still think he could be the 3rd best player on our top line, kind of like Hagelin was with the NYR. He won't be able to carry it, but he won't take anything off of the table either.

Quote:
Zucker, the opposite was true. The guy is on pace for 40 goals in the AHL. He could be a great goal scorer that fits anywhere in the top-9.
Agreed.

Quote:
I got to say that I'm actually more excited for Brodin than Granlund.
Same here I think.

Quote:
Now that I've watched him more, I think Granlund's ceiling is Plekanec. Weak 1st line center. Pretty good 2nd line center. Other teams will be able to negate him if they focus on him. Which is why its awesome that we have Koivu, Brodziak, and maybe one day Larsson.
One comparison that has always stuck in my head: David Kreijci.


Last edited by Dr Jan Itor: 12-18-2012 at 11:19 AM.
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Old
12-18-2012, 10:55 AM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post

Missing? Clutterbuck is traded because he'll want 3 million/year, and then he'll be a 3 million/year 4th line on the Wild. The guy kills all offensive possession for whatever line he's on. Cullen is gone or re-signed as a 4th line center. Bouchard is retired.
Agree that Clutterbuck will probably cost too much, and his +/- isn't great, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he's an offensive death sentence. He's put up a decent number of goals (for his role) over the past few seasons.

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Old
12-18-2012, 11:15 AM
  #789
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Quick and dirty ranking now:

1. Granlund
2. Brodin
3. Zucker
4. Hackett
5. Coyle
6. Larsson
7. Lucia
8. Haula
9. Dumba
10. Gustafsson

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Old
12-18-2012, 11:43 AM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Quick and dirty ranking now:

1. Granlund
2. Brodin
3. Zucker
4. Hackett
5. Coyle
6. Larsson
7. Lucia
8. Haula
9. Dumba
10. Gustafsson
I have less confidence in Hackett now that I have previously. I'd maybe drop him down to #7 and bump Coyle and Larsson up one.

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Old
12-18-2012, 01:09 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by ProfessorMcFatty View Post
Agree that Clutterbuck will probably cost too much, and his +/- isn't great, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he's an offensive death sentence. He's put up a decent number of goals (for his role) over the past few seasons.
For every goal Clutterbuck scores, he takes away 2 from his linemates.

Just spend 1 game watching only him. You'll be amazed how many passes he doesn't see or how many times he causes the puck to come out of the offensive zone, either by shot or turnover.

Or better yet, use a stop-watch to time how long Clutterbuck's line maintains possession compared to the other Wild lines.

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12-18-2012, 01:21 PM
  #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
...

I got to say that I'm actually more excited for Brodin than Granlund.

Now that I've watched him more, I think Granlund's ceiling is Plekanec. Weak 1st line center. Pretty good 2nd line center. Other teams will be able to negate him if they focus on him. Which is why its awesome that we have Koivu, Brodziak, and maybe one day Larsson.
The Granlund we're seeing now is the Granlund he was last spring, unfortunetaly. He's definitely not as good as he was, let's say, 1 year ago from now. He hasn't yet picked up his game to the level he used to play. I hope he does it soon. Before his ankle injury he was on the rise but now that he's back, nothing great to say about him. He hasn't been terrible but certainly hasn't been at his best. Ofcourse he's yet to learn to play the NA way.

I have to say Zucker's been the most impressive case for me. He creates a lot of chances and buries the puck with high percentage. Brodin started off great too but his sample is too small for me to make any analyzes of his game.

Phillips has dissappointed me. I didn't expect him to excel right away as a pro but he hasn't done anything to leave an impression, except maybe a few nifty shootout moves.

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12-18-2012, 02:24 PM
  #793
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There was one game I think maybe two games ago where Phillips' line created a bunch of offence, Phillips held it deep with huge hustle while his linemates changed, then Phillips was out there with the 2 fresh bodies and created even more offence til the play was whistled. That is the one instance where I was wowed by Phillips. He showed huge hustle in the corner all the way up the side boards keeping the offence alive.

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12-18-2012, 02:38 PM
  #794
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Exceeding Expections
Brodin (small sample size, but whatever)
Zucker
Haula
Gustafsson

Meeting Expectations
Granlund
Larsson
Coyle
Hackett
Lucia
Graovac

Starting to Have Concerns About
Dumba
Phillips

Disappointments
Bulmer

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Old
12-18-2012, 02:48 PM
  #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Exceeding Expections
Brodin (small sample size, but whatever)
Zucker
Haula
Gustafsson

Meeting Expectations
Granlund
Larsson
Coyle
Hackett
Lucia
Graovac

Starting to Have Concerns About
Dumba
Phillips

Disappointments
Bulmer
Agreed. But the fortunate thing is that any one of those players can change categories. All are still young and learning to play with new players, new systems, etc.

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Old
12-18-2012, 02:57 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Now after an in-person look (wished I could have compared to Brodin), I'd have him at #2 or #3 among skaters behind Granlund and possibly Brodin. Some of that is Zucker's improvement, but most of that is other prospects disappointing me (particularly Coyle). Zucker is well ahead of Larsson, and Phillips isn't even on the same planet.
I haven't found a thing disappointing with Coyle. He is playing a great two way game and has shown great vision and a scoring touch. For a guy who went from playing east coast, to college, to the Q, to the AHL all in a pretty short period of time I think the guy is doing great. This kid will be a golden 2nd liner. Possibly 1st liner if he somehow clicks with Koivu and Parise. He's a truck too. At weigh in over camp he was over 220 slightly, though you can bet he has lost almost ten lbs.

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Old
12-18-2012, 03:04 PM
  #797
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I have less confidence in Hackett now that I have previously. I'd maybe drop him down to #7 and bump Coyle and Larsson up one.
I don't think Hackett has hurt himself at all this year considering his defense is terrible. And his game lately has been quite solid.

Here's the HF rankings:

1. Mikael Granlund - 8.0B
2. Jonas Brodin - 7.5B
T3. Charlie Coyle - 8.0C
T3. Mat Dumba - 8.0C
5. Johan Larsson - 7.0B
T6. Matt Hackett - 7.5C
T6. Zack Phillips - 7.5C
T8. Jason Zucker - 6.5B
T8. Brett Bulmer - 6.5B
T10. Mario Lucia - 7.0C
T10. Erik Haula - 7.0C
T10. Johan Gustafsson - 7.0C


My list (mucked around a bit):

1. Mikael Granlund - 8.0B
2. Jonas Brodin - 7.5B
T3. Jason Zucker - 7.5C
T3. Matt Hackett - 7.5C
T3. Charlie Coyle - 7.5C
T3. Johan Larsson - 7.5C
T7. Mat Dumba - 8.0D
T7. Mario Lucia - 7.0C
T7. Erik Haula - 7.0C
T7. Johan Gustafsson - 7.0C


Granlund and Brodin are obvious #1 and #2.

Zucker has been explosive as a young rookie in the AHL, which puts him at the top of that grouping. Hackett I feel is pretty well proven in the AHL and will be a starter in the NHL within a couple years. Coyle has been on and off this year but should put it together. Larsson is the last of that grouping as his ceiling might not be quite as high but a little more likely IMO.

Of the next list I have Dumba at top as he's got the highest ceiling but he has regressed this year. Lucia has been more explosive but Haula's not far behind at all and is more proven. I still think Gustafsson has potential to be a #1 or #1A goalie in the NHL so he rounds out my list.

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12-18-2012, 03:17 PM
  #798
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IMO, Hf Rankings nailed it. Id swtich Zucker with Dumba and Id not as high on Granlund as everybody else also.

There is so much more going on with these guys than stats. These organizations are not worried about today with any of these guys, their goal is to have them be an NHL'er, ten years out.

Everybody is about where i expected, some guys are longer term projects for a variety of reason, the organization knows that. Granny, Brodin, Larssson are expected to be pretty far along having played against men before, Zucker played some in the NHL, so his comfort level is high playing here. Frankly for me Zucker is the only guy that has really suprised me. I never predicted his offense would be at the level it is--pure shooter

Come about mid febuary these lists could be significantly different, bottom line I happy with the progress of the guys that I watch, AHL. As long as there is improvement in a 20 game increments im happy !

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Old
12-18-2012, 03:53 PM
  #799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SphinX View Post
What do you guys think of Zucker now?

I really hope he will continue to develop and maybe end up as a 2nd line winger that is capable of 20-30 goals and 50-60 points..
I really like him now, I liked the pick in '10, I agree in that I hope he can be a 2nd line winger. If he could end up on the 2nd line that would be awesome. I would slot him as our 3rd or 4th best prospect.

1. FBJ
2. Bacon
3. tossup b/t Zucker or Coyle
then the rest

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Old
12-18-2012, 06:13 PM
  #800
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I'm not really concerned about anyone but Hackett and Dumba. Everyone knew Phillips might take a few years in the AHL to get up to speed. Bulmer is playing his role. He seems to draw a penalty and/or take someone out in a big way a few times a game, which is what you want. he looked fine in his limited time in the NHL and he still looks fine if he sticks to that game. He's going to make some stupid mistakes, people--that's a given. It'll pay off.

Zucker looks better than i expected, but otherwise everyone else is about where i thought they'd be.

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