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Jordan Eberle vs Patrick Kane

View Poll Results: Who do you take?
Eberle 89 46.84%
Kane 101 53.16%
Voters: 190. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-30-2012, 09:02 PM
  #101
Chris Hansen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4EDM14OIL93 View Post
Eberle shows up in big games too... Im sure you have seen the highlights. He is a proven big game performer. Also, my point was that Kane isn't just automatically more clutch because Eberle is on a bad team as of right now.
What important NHL game has Eberle played well in?

None, because he hasn't been in one.

Kane is proven to be clutch in the NHL, Eberle is not. How many times do I need to repeat myself? Proven is better than unproven.

For the last time, it doesn't mean that whenever Eberle makes the playoffs, he won't be incredible. It simply means that Kane has been a great playoff performer, no doubts about it - proven, a sure thing, whatever word you want to use.
Not. A. Slight. To. Eberle.
Compliment. To. Kane.

And let that be the last time I need to reword the exact same point.

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08-30-2012, 09:06 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
What important NHL game has Eberle played well in?

None, because he hasn't been in one.

Kane is proven to be clutch in the NHL, Eberle is not. How many times do I need to repeat myself? Proven is better than unproven.

For the last time, it doesn't mean that whenever Eberle makes the playoffs, he won't be incredible. It simply means that Kane has been a great playoff performer, no doubts about it - proven, a sure thing, whatever word you want to use.
Not. A. Slight. To. Eberle.
Compliment. To. Kane.

And let that be the last time I need to reword the exact same point.
You can't really bring playoffs into the debate because Eberle hasn't had a chance to play yet. That's not a slight on Eberle. If your going to compare these two you have to look at where Kane was in his 2nd NHL season.

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08-30-2012, 09:11 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
You can't really bring playoffs into the debate because Eberle hasn't had a chance to play yet. That's not a slight on Eberle. If your going to compare these two you have to look at where Kane was in his 2nd NHL season.
I reiterated for the third time in that post that it is not an insult to Eberle, it is a compliment to Kane.

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Old
08-30-2012, 09:40 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
You can't really bring playoffs into the debate because Eberle hasn't had a chance to play yet. That's not a slight on Eberle. If your going to compare these two you have to look at where Kane was in his 2nd NHL season.
6 points less, but with literally half his shooting percentage.

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Old
08-31-2012, 12:33 AM
  #105
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Voted Eberle because Kane is a Blackhawk....

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Old
08-31-2012, 12:41 AM
  #106
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When people talk about Eberle's shooting percentage it needs to be reminded that he's a guy that doesn't waste any shots, and only takes high percentage chances. He has incredible hands, and shiftiness, so that he's always in a good scoring opportunity. People look at shooting percentages in a vacuum, without realizing that he doesn't just have good accuracy, he's also elite at the way he generates scoring chances. And his backhand is top 5 in the league at least, which also inflates his shooting %.

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08-31-2012, 12:45 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
You can't really bring playoffs into the debate because Eberle hasn't had a chance to play yet. That's not a slight on Eberle. If your going to compare these two you have to look at where Kane was in his 2nd NHL season.
Why would you compare kanes second year when the question is who would you take now? It's exactly as Chris stated, Proven vs Unproven. It's not a slight/knock to Eberle because he hasn't played in the playoffs yet HOWEVER it is a bonus for Kane that he has, and you KNOW that he's already stepped it up on the NHL's biggest stage. Eberle could or could not.I don't get how that's so difficult to understand.

For example if you're a team that's a serious contender next season and are pretty much guarenteed to make the playoffs, do you take the winger with experiance and a ring or do you risk it on an unproven player. Not all talented young players are going to adapt to NHL playoffs right off the bat, look at Toews and Stamkos for example. They didn't do terrible but they definetely played below their potentials first time around.

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Old
08-31-2012, 12:47 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
When people talk about Eberle's shooting percentage it needs to be reminded that he's a guy that doesn't waste any shots, and only takes high percentage chances. He has incredible hands, and shiftiness, so that he's always in a good scoring opportunity. People look at shooting percentages in a vacuum, without realizing that he doesn't just have good accuracy, he's also elite at the way he generates scoring chances. And his backhand is top 5 in the league at least, which also inflates his shooting %.
This is true, nobody should be knocking Eberle's shooting %, his hockey IQ very high, he knows when to shoot to make it count. He plays smart, effective and efficient. Not the type to take 10 shots on goal and hope 1 goes in.

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08-31-2012, 12:54 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
This is true, nobody should be knocking Eberle's shooting %, his hockey IQ very high, he knows when to shoot to make it count. He plays smart, effective and efficient. Not the type to take 10 shots on goal and hope 1 goes in.
And he's one of the most clutch players in recent junior history. That's a character trait; something innate, highly probable to translate. Though some people say junior stats are meaningless, but that's ridiculous because there is a correlation between what players do at junior/midget and what they do in NHL. If scouts followed HFBoards logic, Crosby, Stamkos, Tavares, or RNH would never go 1st overall because junior stats are apparently meaningless. But alas, they're dominant NHL players, just as they were in junior, and Eberle's style of play has translated just as smoothly, so it should almost be a given that his clutch-ness would translate as well. So I don't know why people say he has to prove it when he's proved it his entire life and everything else about his game has translated seamlessly.

EDIT: That's even harder to read than it was to write. Normally I'm not this drunk when I post.


Last edited by NightBlazer: 08-31-2012 at 12:59 AM.
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08-31-2012, 12:59 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
And he's one of the most clutch players in recent junior history. That's a character trait; something innate, highly probable to translate. Though some people say junior stats are meaningless, but that's ridiculous because there is a correlation between what players do at junior/midget and what they do in NHL. If scouts followed HFBoards logic, Crosby, Stamkos, Tavares, or RNH would never go 1st overall because junior stats are apparently meaningless. But alas, they're dominant NHL players, just as they were in junior, and Eberle's style of play has translated just as smoothly, so it should almost be a given that his clutch-ness would translate as well. So I don't know why people say he has to prove it when he's proved it his entire life and everything else about his game has translated seamlessly.

EDIT: That's even harder to read than it was to write. Normally I'm not this hammered when I post.
Too bad there's no such thing as being clutch.

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Old
08-31-2012, 01:21 AM
  #111
4EDM14OIL93
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Originally Posted by crt View Post
Too bad there's no such thing as being clutch.
...But there is such a thing. Some players just happen to step it up in big games. That's what being clutch is.. Not very hard to understand.

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Old
08-31-2012, 01:28 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
And he's one of the most clutch players in recent junior history. That's a character trait; something innate, highly probable to translate. Though some people say junior stats are meaningless, but that's ridiculous because there is a correlation between what players do at junior/midget and what they do in NHL. If scouts followed HFBoards logic, Crosby, Stamkos, Tavares, or RNH would never go 1st overall because junior stats are apparently meaningless. But alas, they're dominant NHL players, just as they were in junior, and Eberle's style of play has translated just as smoothly, so it should almost be a given that his clutch-ness would translate as well. So I don't know why people say he has to prove it when he's proved it his entire life and everything else about his game has translated seamlessly.

EDIT: That's even harder to read than it was to write. Normally I'm not this drunk when I post.
What? jr stats are useful up until the draft obviously..

Yes they were dominant in Jr, so are a ton of players that were and never cracked the NHL, and a bunch that turned into average NHL players.

Again the NHL playoffs are alot different then anything in jr's, Im not saying he won't be a great playoff performer but his first maybe 2nd playoffs, don't expect him to be putting up ppg+. There's a reason why there are very few active players who are above ppg in the playoffs.

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08-31-2012, 04:23 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
When people talk about Eberle's shooting percentage it needs to be reminded that he's a guy that doesn't waste any shots, and only takes high percentage chances. He has incredible hands, and shiftiness, so that he's always in a good scoring opportunity. People look at shooting percentages in a vacuum, without realizing that he doesn't just have good accuracy, he's also elite at the way he generates scoring chances. And his backhand is top 5 in the league at least, which also inflates his shooting %.
He may end up being a good career shooter, but the sample size and the degree to which his shooting percentage is abnormally high all point to it coming down. he could increase his shot volume, but giving him 6 million dollars to hope that he does is a gamble the oilers didn't have to take imo. also, check out his IPP (a stat that shows what % of goals scored you were on the ice for also gave you a point), it was abnormally high as well. again, everything that could have went right for eberle this year did, and a betting man shouldn't expect the same results, barring a high increase to shot volume.

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08-31-2012, 09:26 AM
  #114
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I'd rather Eberle but Kane is a better player at the moment. I think Eberle would fit better in Montreal

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08-31-2012, 09:33 AM
  #115
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this is pretty close. Very similar players, Kane a little more accomplished, proven himself in the playoffs, more highly touted coming into the league.....yet, for whatever reason, I voted Eberle.

Eberle seems to have that "something" that players have, that special moments will follow him around. Like scoring a weird looking goal to win a cup one day? (yes, like Kane did already )

Something about Kane bothers me, maybe it's his personality, seems to have that "I don't care anymore" attitude that can manifest itself any day. That's my only worry about him. I think he's a fantastic hockey player, immensely skilled, etc....but Eberle seems to be a guy you want on the ice when you need a goal.

I have felt that way since the WJC for sure, even before he scored the "big goal"

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08-31-2012, 10:28 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
And he's one of the most clutch players in recent junior history. That's a character trait; something innate, highly probable to translate. Though some people say junior stats are meaningless, but that's ridiculous because there is a correlation between what players do at junior/midget and what they do in NHL. If scouts followed HFBoards logic, Crosby, Stamkos, Tavares, or RNH would never go 1st overall because junior stats are apparently meaningless. But alas, they're dominant NHL players, just as they were in junior, and Eberle's style of play has translated just as smoothly, so it should almost be a given that his clutch-ness would translate as well. So I don't know why people say he has to prove it when he's proved it his entire life and everything else about his game has translated seamlessly.

EDIT: That's even harder to read than it was to write. Normally I'm not this drunk when I post.
Again, if junior stats are highly probable to translate, then we need to talk about how Dave Bolland is one of the best scorers in the NHL.

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08-31-2012, 11:52 AM
  #117
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Again, if junior stats are highly probable to translate, then we need to talk about how Dave Bolland is one of the best scorers in the NHL.
at the same age, tavares almost doubled bolland's output.

Let's not confuse a player's stats in their DRAFT ELIGIBLE year with their final year of junior when they are as cool as the cool kids in senior year of high school.

Robbie Schremp scored 150pts in his last year of junior but was much like Bolland, point a game type in his draft year.

Stats like Stamkos and Tavares, on and before their draft year, are very rare.

While I agree with you that junior stats often don't tell an accurate story on a player's upside, there are stats and there are stats.

Check out this list, some pretty good players there:


10. Pat Lafontaine, Verdun, QMJHL
Rookie-record 104 goals, 234 points in 1982-83; major junior player of the year.

9. Eric Lindros, Oshawa, OHL
97 goals, 216 points in 95 games; one Memorial Cup victory; three world junior tournaments; major junior player of the year in 1991.

8. Bobby Smith, Ottawa, OHA
158 goals, 385 points in 187 games; chosen major junior player of the year in 1978 over Wayne Gretzky.

7. John Tavares, Oshawa, OHL
215 goals, 433 points in 247 games; most goals in OHL history; eligibility rules changed to admit him at 15; 2006 major junior rookie of the year, 2007 major junior player of the year; two world juniors, named 2009 all-star, top forward and MVP.

6. Mike Bossy, Laval, QMJHL
309 goals, 532 points in 263 games; most goals in major junior history.

5. Bobby Orr, Oshawa, OHA
Started career at 15; 70 goals, 259 points in 159 games as a defenseman.

4. Bobby Clarke, Flin Flon, WCHL
122 goals, 305 points in 117 games; two scoring titles and the trophy was later renamed in his honor.

3. Sidney Crosby, Rimouski, QMJHL
120 goals, 303 points in 121 games; two-time major junior player of the year; silver and gold with Canada at two world juniors.

2. Guy Lafleur, Quebec, QMJHL
233 goals, 379 points in 118 games; 130 goals, 209 points and a Memorial Cup in 1970-71.

1. Mario Lemieux, Laval, QMJHL
247 goals, 562 points in 200 games; 61-game point streak, 133 goals and 282 points in 1983-84 all set major junior records earning him major junior player of the year honors.

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Old
08-31-2012, 12:24 PM
  #118
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Quote:
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eberle had a ridiculous 19% shooting percentage this year. you think he's going to maintain that over the course of his career?

this will probably be his career year. he won't be anything more than a 60-65 point player from here on
OF course, the Shooting % argument again.

It's funny, cause I read at least two fantasy magazines who predict that Eberle will finish with 80-85 points. They don't seem to be afraid of the shooting % fluke.

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Old
08-31-2012, 12:31 PM
  #119
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If Jordan Eberle is clutch, what does that make Patrick Kane, who eliminated the Flyers in the SCF?

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08-31-2012, 12:42 PM
  #120
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I'd rather have the proven commodity over unproven futures so...Kane.

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08-31-2012, 12:59 PM
  #121
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I'd rather have the proven commodity over unproven futures so...Kane.
34 goals and 76 points seems pretty proven to me.

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Old
08-31-2012, 01:20 PM
  #122
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34 goals and 76 points seems pretty proven to me.
ya but its only for one year with unsustainable shooting % and superstar linemates

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Old
08-31-2012, 07:55 PM
  #123
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Kane is the better player. Just way more dynamic and he can carry a line.

Eberle however is probably the better complimentary player. If you already have a superstar forward who dominates the puck, Eberle would be the better fit because he doesn't need to hold the puck for a long time to be effective.

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08-31-2012, 09:04 PM
  #124
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Voted Eberle accidentally, meant Kane.

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06-25-2013, 01:40 AM
  #125
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Is it safe to say Eberle takes this one easily now?

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