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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
09-06-2012, 01:46 PM
  #151
dubplatepressure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
So far no one has talked about Gunnarsson. He is quite a different story from Franson as far as the Oilers are concerned. The Oilers have little or no need for Franson. Gunnarsson would be able to play in the top 4 easily and would give the team a fair number of options.

I'd easily trade either Hartikainen or Jones for Gunnarsson but I doubt many of your fellow Leaf fans would want this. (Neither Jones or Hartikainen are fighters by the way.)

Franson would be a at best third pairing RHD offensive dman on the Oilers. We've already explained why he would not be in the top two pairs and why he is not needed on the pp. Given that they signed Schultz, he is not really needed at this point.
Let's shift away from Franson then and discuss Gunnar. I'm not concerned with fighting necessarily, but more just a general willingness to play a dirty, gritty style of hockey. 2 of the top-5 in hits for us last year were Steckel and Brown - neither of which intimidate in the slightest nor play enough minutes to warrant consideration to impact a game. We lack quality wingers who can and will bang it up, drive hard to the net, work the corners, and most importantly, take a hit to get the puck out of our own end.

Ryan Jones looks like a quality 3rd liner coming off a career year. His giveaway/takeaway is 1:1, which is good to see, and based on his stats last years he was used on the PK, although how effective he was I can't say. Everyone says McClement is solid on the PK, but IMO that alone isn't enough for me to say we've solved our special teams issues.

I've seen little but read some of Hartikainen... seems to be a kid with a future as a 2nd/3rd line winger who hits everything and can score, a quality supporting character.

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Old
09-06-2012, 02:13 PM
  #152
Bryanbryoil
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How about hell no?

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Old
09-06-2012, 02:21 PM
  #153
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I don't think the Oilers and TO make a good deal, they both need the same thing a big centreman that can play.

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Old
09-06-2012, 02:22 PM
  #154
Bryanbryoil
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So Colborne was drafted in 2008 and last year he went for:

65 16 -23-39 in the AHL
AHL playoffs
15 2-6-8

Paajarvi was drafted in 2009 and last year he went for:

34 7-18-25 prorated to 65 games 13-34-47
AHL playoffs
14 2-9-11

Paajarvi is a year younger and has this season before he is waiver eligible, Colborne either needs to make the big club or he might get claimed for free on waivers. How anyone can say that Colborne is the better prospect or has less bust potential is beyond me when he's shown less, is a year older, and is facing waivers.

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Old
09-06-2012, 02:36 PM
  #155
dubplatepressure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post

Paajarvi is a year younger and has this season before he is waiver eligible, Colborne either needs to make the big club or he might get claimed for free on waivers. How anyone can say that Colborne is the better prospect or has less bust potential is beyond me when he's shown less, is a year older, and is facing waivers.
I agree MPS is a better prospect, but your source on Colborne's contract status is off. He's still on his ELC - 2 way. No waivers eligibility.

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Old
09-06-2012, 04:20 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
why is franson the guy on the team on the way out? its funny how oiler fans say he is the #7 but imo
phaneuf-gunner
gardiner-franson
komi-liles

those are the best D pairings (maybe swap komi with holzer)
What does this show. Toronto was worse then Edmonton at defence so him making a worse defensive squad doesnt really prove he would be top 4 on Edmonton

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Old
09-06-2012, 10:22 PM
  #157
WeridAl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
why is franson the guy on the team on the way out? its funny how oiler fans say he is the #7 but imo
phaneuf-gunner
gardiner-franson
komi-liles

those are the best D pairings (maybe swap komi with holzer)
Pairing Franson with Gardiner would be a disaster. You usually like to pair a defensive D with a PMD and Franson is questionable as a PMD and is definitely not a defensive D.

Phaneuf/Gunner
Liles/Komi
Gardiner/Holzer

The reason I place Gardiner in the 3rd pairing is he may need a little more seasoning and it would be best to bring him along slowly. He can always move up later on in the season. Holtzer would also bring that grit they lost when they mistakenly traded Schenn away.

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Old
09-07-2012, 02:48 PM
  #158
81Leafs50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
That doesn't negate his point - Franson has value as a 2nd pairing guy - top 4 material, not top pairing.

IMO it's one of Franson or Gunnar that are on the outs, just a matter of which one and which deal is available. Franson didn't really get a good run here last year, but we all know that. If Gunnar is moved expect the Franson contract to be inked immediately and slot in his place.

2 guys I'd target from Edmonton are Hartikainen and Ryan Jones. Not sure if either is available for a guy like Gunnarson but from what I know of them both are gritty and other than our 4th line sandbags we have no real grit in our top-9. Kadri doesn't count cause he can't stay on his feet and Kulemin will shy away from any real rough stuff. Lupul shouldn't be fighting, likewise for JVR, and who does that leave? Macarthur?

EDM fans? What's the return look like?
It does, cause Franson has a much higher upside than Teubert. Thus Teubert and a 3rd for Franson makes sense.

Paajarvi to me is a risk/reward type player. I can see him flopping or becoming a 20 goal guy consistently, which is Colborne's upside. Plus Colborne has size, defensive awareness, good at faceoffs, and he dominated the AHL this season unlike Paajarvi.

So I see this as a pretty even trade. But, i wouldn't do this trade from wither teams perspective cause they really cant afford to give up on these guys just yet.

EDIT: I know you cant see it from his stats, that he dominated the AHL......but he was on pace for approx. 1.5 pts per game until he mangled his hand and played through it till the end of the season. He was on a ridiculous pace until he got hurt.


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Old
09-07-2012, 02:58 PM
  #159
thalegion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81Leafs50 View Post
It does, cause Franson has a much higher upside than Teubert. Thus Teubert and a 3rd for Franson makes sense.

Paajarvi to me is a risk/reward type player. I can see him flopping or becoming a 20 goal guy consistently, which is Colborne's upside. Plus Colborne has size, defensive awareness, good at faceoffs, and he dominated the AHL this season unlike Paajarvi.

So I see this as a pretty even trade. But, i wouldn't do this trade from wither teams perspective cause they really cant afford to give up on these guys just yet.

EDIT: I know you cant see it from his stats, that he dominated the AHL......but he was on pace for approx. 1.5 pts per game until he mangled his hand and played through it till the end of the season. He was on a ridiculous pace until he got hurt.
Can't see from stats but Paajarvi fixed a lot of his problems like driving the net, easily a safer younger player

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Old
09-07-2012, 07:59 PM
  #160
Fourier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
Let's shift away from Franson then and discuss Gunnar. I'm not concerned with fighting necessarily, but more just a general willingness to play a dirty, gritty style of hockey. 2 of the top-5 in hits for us last year were Steckel and Brown - neither of which intimidate in the slightest nor play enough minutes to warrant consideration to impact a game. We lack quality wingers who can and will bang it up, drive hard to the net, work the corners, and most importantly, take a hit to get the puck out of our own end.

Ryan Jones looks like a quality 3rd liner coming off a career year. His giveaway/takeaway is 1:1, which is good to see, and based on his stats last years he was used on the PK, although how effective he was I can't say. Everyone says McClement is solid on the PK, but IMO that alone isn't enough for me to say we've solved our special teams issues.

I've seen little but read some of Hartikainen... seems to be a kid with a future as a 2nd/3rd line winger who hits everything and can score, a quality supporting character.
I don't think the Leafs and Oilers make very good trading partners to be honest but I will comment on a few of the guys you have mentioned.

Hartikainen is a question mark. He had an up and down year last year after showing a lot of promise in 2010-2011. He could be a guy who would complement a pair like Eberle and Nuge, even though his full package is more that of a third liner. But he would have to be more consistent in his physical game, something that he excelles at when playing well. He also lacks a but of hockey sense, needs to improve his skating, and tends to hold onto the puck too long. On the positive side, he can create space for players like those two, and is a beast on the boards. When he drives to the net hard he is very difficult to contain, and he does have decent hands and a solid shot.

I think the fact that the Oilers drafted three big skilled LW'ers this year suggests that they also have some concerns about Hartikainen's ability to play a role in the top six. That said there is little doubt he is capable of being a useful NHL'er for a long time, so as a prospect his value is still quite high.

Jones is more of an energy guy than a true physical player. The Oiler blogosphere does not like him because they say his SH% is too high to maintain. But for two years in a row his goal totals have stayed pretty much the same. The shooting % is probably due to the fact that he scores most of his goals either on breakaways, which he gets a lot of, or in very tight to then net, where is quite effective. He is a solid pk'er but not exceptional defensively at ES. He is a useful palyer on a good contract but I doubt he would return Gunnarsson.

If you are looking for an Oiler prospect that does have a well developed physical game and a guy who I think will be a player, I would say Typer Pitlick is a pretty decent target. He is a year or two away, but I think he will be a player. The kid hits like a truck, is an excellent skater and has a pro shot. He had a slow start in the AHL as a 19/20 year old but by the end of the year was one of the Barons most important players. Right now he is playing mostly RW but I still think he could be the Oilers #2 center is the wings are Hall and Yakupov. With these two he would not have to worry about generating the offense, but could concentrate on the physical aspect of the game and on defense. Honestly, I'd be disappointed if they traded Pitlick as I think he is the best internal candidate for the #2 center role if the goal is to get more grit into that position. (Other Oiler fans would disagree with me on this, but I did follow Pitlick quite closely last year.)

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Old
09-07-2012, 08:03 PM
  #161
shibbiness
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Wouldn't do this as a leafs fan.

Franson had no playing time last year because of Komo. He is the most proven player in this deal, along with MPS. Don't care at all for Teubert tbh.

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