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Hard Salary Cap and the end of NHL trades

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01-22-2005, 12:20 PM
  #1
PeterSidorkiewicz
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Hard Salary Cap and the end of NHL trades

No one has ever talked about this but, if the NHL does in fact get an NFL modeled salary cap that could mean the end of NHL trades between teams as we know it. As you know in the NFL 99% of transactions is free agency and 1% is trades between teams which usually ONLY ends up being for draft picks. So the samething could happen to the NHL. I love trades, the NHL trading deadline is such a fun time to see what deals go down and who ends up getting who. And if an NFL system is implemented theres a good chance player for player trades will go by the wayside cause it will be done with ALL free agents instead. I think it would definitely ruin an aspect of the league, just wondering your thoughts on this.

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01-22-2005, 12:21 PM
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Yup there would be far far less trades with a Cap. Trades are very exciting in the NHL.

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01-22-2005, 12:29 PM
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I like when people say the NFL has too much player movement. Like the NHL doesnt have just as much.

The NFL was never huge on trades anyway. If trades in the NHL decrease fans will find something else to yank it and crank it over.

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01-22-2005, 12:31 PM
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Fewer trades is fine with me. God forbid GMs be forced to focus on player development and keep their talent. Lord help us if players actually stay with a team for more than a few years and become identifiable figures among the fans and community. And where will the NHL be without an annual contingent of rent-a-players? It'll be utter chaos, I tell you.

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01-22-2005, 12:34 PM
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Let me get this staright. First people say that a cap will cause too much movement in the nhl. Now your saying that a cap will stop trades. Which one is it? Movement or no movement?

 
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01-22-2005, 12:36 PM
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A lot of movement at first...then very little movement after that. IMO.

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01-22-2005, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz
No one has ever talked about this but, if the NHL does in fact get an NFL modeled salary cap that could mean the end of NHL trades between teams as we know it. As you know in the NFL 99% of transactions is free agency and 1% is trades between teams which usually ONLY ends up being for draft picks. So the samething could happen to the NHL. I love trades, the NHL trading deadline is such a fun time to see what deals go down and who ends up getting who. And if an NFL system is implemented theres a good chance player for player trades will go by the wayside cause it will be done with ALL free agents instead. I think it would definitely ruin an aspect of the league, just wondering your thoughts on this.
The sky is falling!!! The sky is falling!!!

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01-22-2005, 12:42 PM
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Well, at least it would help Glen Sather from further flushing his once great reputation even further down the toilet!!!

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01-22-2005, 12:43 PM
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There are virtually no trades in the NFL.

I know I'm just looking out for the Red Wings in all of this, but I'd like a pro capper to explain something to me:

The Red Wings built a pretty good team through the draft starting in 1983 with Yzerman. By the early 90's, they were close to being Cup contenders. Between 1993 and 1996, they were generally the favorites to come out the West. But every year, the team failed. They were missing one key ingredient. In October 1996, Brendan Shanahan requested a trade from Hartford. His request was not made because of financial reasons. He simply didn't want to play in Hartford anymore. The Red Wings agreed to trade Keith Primeau, Paul Coffey and a 1st round pick to Hartford for Shanahan. Hartford felt they were getting fair value and agreed. It was this trade that put the Red Wings over the top, and led them to two consecutive Stanley Cups. Now, in a hard capped world, this trade does not happen. Its not a salary dump, its not the Red Wings "buying" anybody. Its a trade that gives the Red Wings the ingredient they were missing, and gives Hartford a future all star and one of the best offensive defensemen of all time. Without this trade, the Red Wings do not win any Stanley Cups with a team that they built over 14 years.

Now, someone tell me why the Red Wings and Hartford shouldn't have been allowed to make that trade.

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01-22-2005, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockey_Nut99
Let me get this staright. First people say that a cap will cause too much movement in the nhl. Now your saying that a cap will stop trades. Which one is it? Movement or no movement?
A cap increases free agent movement. It decreases trades.

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01-22-2005, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockey_Nut99
Let me get this staright. First people say that a cap will cause too much movement in the nhl. Now your saying that a cap will stop trades. Which one is it? Movement or no movement?
A lot of movement through just free agency and not through trades. Which In my personal opinion I hate that the NFL is all free agency and no player trades. And its funny how EVERYONE on here has such a sour puss attitude when I ask just a SIMPLE question on everyones thoughts about trades and if youll be disappointed to see them go away cause of an nfl styled cap. Its an honest question and most people give sour answers that had nothing to do with my question such as "the sky is falling." I guess ill have to READ into that and say youd be fine with no more fun trade deadlines and stuff. Of course you could have just said that to begin with instead of getting all defensive about it.

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01-22-2005, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CarlRacki
Lord help us if players actually stay with a team for more than a few years and become identifiable figures among the fans and community.
So why do you want a cap?

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01-22-2005, 12:52 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Now, in a hard capped world, this trade does not happen.
If Shanahan doesnt demand a trade this trade doesnt happen.

You are playing the what if game. You dont know if it would have happened or not.

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01-22-2005, 12:52 PM
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Don't forget the difference in UFA-age between the NFL and the NHL.
NFL-players become UFAs roughly seven years earlier than NHL-players.

If you don't have as many UFAs, you don't have as much free agent movement.

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01-22-2005, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz
A lot of movement through just free agency and not through trades. Which In my personal opinion I hate that the NFL is all free agency and no player trades. And its funny how EVERYONE on here has such a sour puss attitude when I ask just a SIMPLE question on everyones thoughts about trades and if youll be disappointed to see them go away cause of an nfl styled cap. Its an honest question and most people give sour answers that had nothing to do with my question such as "the sky is falling." I guess ill have to READ into that and say youd be fine with no more fun trade deadlines and stuff. Of course you could have just said that to begin with instead of getting all defensive about it.

I for one am very sorry and disappointed for myself in not giving a more favorable and thoughtful response. Would i be disappointed to see an end to "Edmonton Oilers trade Doug Weight to St. Louis Blues for Jochen Hecht & Marty Reasoner"???
Oh, yes, terribly. I love those kinds of deals.

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01-22-2005, 12:54 PM
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hockeytown9321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
If Shanahan doesnt demand a trade this trade doesnt happen.

You are playing the what if game. You dont know if it would have happened or not.
Big difference. Shanahan did demand the trade. Answer the question.

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01-22-2005, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanderson
Don't forget the difference in UFA-age between the NFL and the NHL.
NFL-players become UFAs roughly seven years earlier than NHL-players.

If you don't have as many UFAs, you don't have as much free agent movement.
I dont think any sports league on earth would accept a UFA age at 30 with an NFL style salary cap with NO salary arbitration ever. Oh wait which is what the NHL offered the players. Im sooooooooooooo surprised they didnt take that AWESOME deal handed to them. If you wanna discuss having a hard cap and model it after the NFL like the owners want, the UFA will have to be lowered to age 24, because if it isnt, the owners are hypocrites.

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01-22-2005, 12:56 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
There are virtually no trades in the NFL.

I know I'm just looking out for the Red Wings in all of this, but I'd like a pro capper to explain something to me:

The Red Wings built a pretty good team through the draft starting in 1983 with Yzerman. By the early 90's, they were close to being Cup contenders. Between 1993 and 1996, they were generally the favorites to come out the West. But every year, the team failed. They were missing one key ingredient. In October 1996, Brendan Shanahan requested a trade from Hartford. His request was not made because of financial reasons. He simply didn't want to play in Hartford anymore. The Red Wings agreed to trade Keith Primeau, Paul Coffey and a 1st round pick to Hartford for Shanahan. Hartford felt they were getting fair value and agreed. It was this trade that put the Red Wings over the top, and led them to two consecutive Stanley Cups. Now, in a hard capped world, this trade does not happen. Its not a salary dump, its not the Red Wings "buying" anybody. Its a trade that gives the Red Wings the ingredient they were missing, and gives Hartford a future all star and one of the best offensive defensemen of all time. Without this trade, the Red Wings do not win any Stanley Cups with a team that they built over 14 years.

Now, someone tell me why the Red Wings and Hartford shouldn't have been allowed to make that trade.
No one is saying that deal can't be made. In fact, it can be made. At that point Detroit just has to make a conscious decision which assets they wish to give up, which they did. Its not like Hartford did not take on salary in the transaction as well. Coffey was not earning peanuts. Frankly I think you post a trade that has very little relevance to the discussion at hand. The type of deals you should be talking about are the Jagr deals, or the Bure deals. The ones where huge salaries are dumped for nothing. Those are ones you need to be talking about because the Shanahan deal was a pretty fair deal all around and likely would have been one that would be consumated even today.

I don't buy this "there will be no trades" garbage. Teams are already making deals where salaries are balanced out. Its just going to be a little more precise for teams. Teams looking for that push over the top are going to have to be very careful in what they acquire and what they give away. Its been that way for the past four or five years for most teams, so now the large market teams are going to have to get used to dealing in this fashion. Trades will continue to happen. That'e the way of the NHL. A new salary structure is not going to chage that.

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01-22-2005, 12:56 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Sanderson
Don't forget the difference in UFA-age between the NFL and the NHL.
NFL-players become UFAs roughly seven years earlier than NHL-players.

If you don't have as many UFAs, you don't have as much free agent movement.
The NHL already offered to lower the UFA age by a year in their last proposal. Rumor is that Linden and Hitchkiss agreed this week to UFA at 27 or 28 if there's a cap.

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01-22-2005, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
There are virtually no trades in the NFL.

I know I'm just looking out for the Red Wings in all of this, but I'd like a pro capper to explain something to me:

The Red Wings built a pretty good team through the draft starting in 1983 with Yzerman. By the early 90's, they were close to being Cup contenders. Between 1993 and 1996, they were generally the favorites to come out the West. But every year, the team failed. They were missing one key ingredient. In October 1996, Brendan Shanahan requested a trade from Hartford. His request was not made because of financial reasons. He simply didn't want to play in Hartford anymore. The Red Wings agreed to trade Keith Primeau, Paul Coffey and a 1st round pick to Hartford for Shanahan. Hartford felt they were getting fair value and agreed. It was this trade that put the Red Wings over the top, and led them to two consecutive Stanley Cups. Now, in a hard capped world, this trade does not happen. Its not a salary dump, its not the Red Wings "buying" anybody. Its a trade that gives the Red Wings the ingredient they were missing, and gives Hartford a future all star and one of the best offensive defensemen of all time. Without this trade, the Red Wings do not win any Stanley Cups with a team that they built over 14 years.

Now, someone tell me why the Red Wings and Hartford shouldn't have been allowed to make that trade.
1. Why does this trade not happen?

Just curious.

But I do admit it is possible that teams looking to push for the cup will run into cap issues at the deadline and on free agent day.

That is why I still like the idea of a stretch cap. 34-38 million with a optional $5 million stretch on July 1st to sign your players (dollar for dollar with money going to revenue sharing or league marketing) and a $5 million further stretch at the trade deadline (1.2 or 1.3 for every dollar over)

everybody wins... I don't see why the league or players won't do this. It seems like a reasonable compromise

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01-22-2005, 12:59 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
No one is saying that deal can't be made. In fact, it can be made. At that point Detroit just has to make a conscious decision which assets they wish to give up, which they did. Its not like Hartford did not take on salary in the transaction as well. Coffey was not earning peanuts. Frankly I think you post a trade that has very little relevance to the discussion at hand. The type of deals you should be talking about are the Jagr deals, or the Bure deals. The ones where huge salaries are dumped for nothing. Those are ones you need to be talking about because the Shanahan deal was a pretty fair deal all around and likely would have been one that would be consumated even today.
When was the last time a trade of the Shanahan magnitude happened in the hard capped NFL?

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01-22-2005, 01:00 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Answer the question.
Answer what question? I thought this was a thread asking for opinions.

My opinion is I dont care. Trades, free agency, doesnt matter to me. Ill find something else to pleasure myself over on trade deadline day.

No trades. A salary cap. It doesnt matter. All the anti cappers will return like sheep when the NHL comes back with a cap.

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01-22-2005, 01:02 PM
  #23
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Trades will become less frequent in a capped environment as all trades will become equal salary for equal salary. Salary decisions will outweigh talent decisions in a capped environment.

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01-22-2005, 01:02 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz
I dont think any sports league on earth would accept a UFA age at 30 with an NFL style salary cap with NO salary arbitration ever. Oh wait which is what the NHL offered the players. Im sooooooooooooo surprised they didnt take that AWESOME deal handed to them. If you wanna discuss having a hard cap and model it after the NFL like the owners want, the UFA will have to be lowered to age 24, because if it isnt, the owners are hypocrites.
So what do you want? More movement or less movement? You really have to make up your mind. The sky can't be falling everywhere can it?


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01-22-2005, 01:02 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
When was the last time a trade of the Shanahan magnitude happened in the hard capped NFL?
When was the last time a trade the magnitude of the Jagr trade occured in the hard capped NFL?

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