HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Brian Burke has been the face of the franchise since Nov. 12/08

View Poll Results: who is the face of this team? do we need to change?
Burke is unequivocally the face of the franchise and i'm fine with that. 32 40.51%
Dion is the face of the franchise and i'm fine with that. 15 18.99%
We desperately need a new face with talent, leadership, and personality. 37 46.84%
Kessel has the most talent on the team and is the franchise. 16 20.25%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-30-2012, 10:17 PM
  #101
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,289
vCash: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97;53985959[B
]I'm pretty sure MLSE'S confirmed that he proposed a "scenario that did not include te playoffs"[/B] ao try rejected it. Seems like a truth moreso than propoganda.

Who did he lock up long term that couldn't play in the new NHL? McCabe, Tucker and Kaberle all had their best seasons in the post lockout era.

JFJ made his share of mistakes and I don believe for a second he was forced to acquire specific players, but I'm not sure your post is all that accurate.
JFJ was given all the tools available and the freedom to retool a quality team and failed . He then went to the board and proposed a rebuild which was rejected because they had lost faith in him .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2012, 10:20 PM
  #102
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 28,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
JFJ was given all the tools available and the freedom to retool a quality team and failed . He then went to the board and proposed a rebuild which was rejected because they had lost faith in him .
I'm pretty confident he went to the board with that proposal the first year out of the lockout. Which season are you thinking it happened?

EazyB97 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2012, 10:28 PM
  #103
hotpaws
Registered User
 
hotpaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 8,289
vCash: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
I'm pretty confident he went to the board with that proposal the first year out of the lockout. Which season are you thinking it happened?
I don't remember exactly which season but i do remember from the article that it was after the team started to perform poorly .

JFJ was in over his head but if he hired some expierienced asst's he may have been able to avoid some of the mistakes that led to downfall .

hotpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2012, 10:43 PM
  #104
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 28,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I don't remember exactly which season but i do remember from the article that it was after the team started to perform poorly .

JFJ was in over his head but if he hired some expierienced asst's he may have been able to avoid some of the mistakes that led to downfall .
My understanding is the proposal was right out of the lockout, coming off a 100+ season, so MLSE didn't see the need and encouraged him to make the playoffs. The reports didn't come out until a while later and were confirmed post firing. If that timeline's correct, they wouldn't have rejected it because they had "lost faith" in him.

EazyB97 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2012, 10:43 PM
  #105
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 56,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
JFJ was given all the tools available and the freedom to retool a quality team and failed . He then went to the board and proposed a rebuild which was rejected because they had lost faith in him .
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
I'm pretty confident he went to the board with that proposal the first year out of the lockout. Which season are you thinking it happened?
MLSE confirmed JFj was told he could not rebuild so he tried to make the playoffs, and his biggest mistake was trying to land a younger goaltender that might be able to recapture an earlier Calder season form. Belfour was bad the first season off the lock-out.

As for Allison and Lindros, simply a couple cheap, former stars, giving it one last chance. If people honestly want to evaluate it consider they missed the playoffs by one win, and lost both Lindros and Allison during the regular season. Sundin also lost 13 games IIRC with a puck in the eye.

Allison had 60 points in 66 games.
McCabe by the way had 19 goals and 68 points, Phaneuf's career year was 17 goals and 60 points.

Leafs missed the playoffs by a shootout point earned by the Islanders on the last game of the season in 2006-2007. They haven't been respectable since.

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2012, 10:57 PM
  #106
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 28,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
MLSE confirmed JFj was told he could not rebuild so he tried to make the playoffs, and his biggest mistake was trying to land a younger goaltender that might be able to recapture an earlier Calder season form. Belfour was bad the first season off the lock-out.

As for Allison and Lindros, simply a couple cheap, former stars, giving it one last chance. If people honestly want to evaluate it consider they missed the playoffs by one win, and lost both Lindros and Allison during the regular season. Sundin also lost 13 games IIRC with a puck in the eye.

Allison had 60 points in 66 games.
McCabe by the way had 19 goals and 68 points, Phaneuf's career year was 17 goals and 60 points.

Leafs missed the playoffs by a shootout point earned by the Islanders on the last game of the season in 2006-2007. They haven't been respectable since.
Correct, but it's the timeline we seemed to disagree on.

It was 2 years before his firing, so likely when the team was struggling in the 05-06 season (first out of the lockout). They had that strong run down the stretch to get back in to contention.

This is the quote I'm referring to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Star: Kevin McGraw
Ferguson, fired yesterday as the Leaf GM, told the Star's Dave Perkins last week that he presented a budget two years ago to the board that didn't include playoff revenue. The budget was rejected, and he was told to come back with a plan to make the playoffs.

"Our objective is always to be a contending team," board chairman Larry Tanenbaum said yesterday. "To be able to bring a Stanley Cup back here, it's hard to do that when you don't have playoffs."
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...-the-high-road

JFJ was fired in Jan 2008

EazyB97 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2012, 11:02 PM
  #107
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 56,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Correct, but it's the timeline we seemed to disagree on.

It was 2 years before his firing, so likely when the team was struggling in the 05-06 season (first out of the lockout). They had that strong run down the stretch to get back in to contention.

This is the quote I'm referring to:


http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...-the-high-road

JFJ was fired in Jan 2008
Thanks.

JFj could see the future, even if MLSE couldn't/wouldn't.

ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 05:58 AM
  #108
ForSpareParts*
agreement
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,904
vCash: 500
Yes I've heard these pro JFJ arguments before. If it is so widely known that he was a victim and (under the right circstances) a compitent GM, then why isn't he more than a scout for the San Jose Sharks? Surely the hockey world knows as much as you about Jason Alison's point total, Pogge's deflated confidence, Toskala's hot season for the Sharks, and the shootout goal that sealed JFJ's fate. Surely he can manage another NHL team right?

ForSpareParts* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 06:30 AM
  #109
eyeball11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,301
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
i don't believe that for a second. he was a nice guy until the end so fans started to believe this false propaganda that he was a victim. he said on many occasions that he had full power in his position to make decisions regarding the team. he canned quinn and brought up maurice, he began to lock up a core of players (long-term) that could not play in the new NHL, he thought it was a good idea to go with size (lindros & alison), and he made poor decisions with starting goalies (over-paid).

despite some of burke's shortcomings, we are on a path to winning in the future. all be it a long one.
Um, we know for a FACT that he was blocked from making personnel decisions.

eyeball11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 06:45 AM
  #110
MapleReef
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Nassau Bahamas
Country: Bahamas
Posts: 206
vCash: 500
What's the difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
He is an old washed up man who has let his ego get in the way of making the leafs contenders.
Lots of people point to Kulemin losing his "friends" in a plane crash for the off year he had. Burke lost a son and still took the US to silver in the Olympics and continues to rebuild a team that had nothing top to bottom in organizational strength.

Why do so many Leaf contracts end this year? It happens to be a great draft year and also one of the best UFA years ever.

I agree this is the pivotal year, but Rome wasn't built in a day and it was likely an easier job than building this franchise again from nothing.

MapleReef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 08:21 AM
  #111
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 28,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Yes I've heard these pro JFJ arguments before. If it is so widely known that he was a victim and (under the right circstances) a compitent GM, then why isn't he more than a scout for the San Jose Sharks? Surely the hockey world knows as much as you about Jason Alison's point total, Pogge's deflated confidence, Toskala's hot season for the Sharks, and the shootout goal that sealed JFJ's fate. Surely he can manage another NHL team right?
Why not respond to my post instead of going on another useless rant?

EazyB97 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 10:37 AM
  #112
pooleboy
#tankformcdavid
 
pooleboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleReef View Post
Lots of people point to Kulemin losing his "friends" in a plane crash for the off year he had. Burke lost a son and still took the US to silver in the Olympics and continues to rebuild a team that had nothing top to bottom in organizational strength.

Why do so many Leaf contracts end this year? It happens to be a great draft year and also one of the best UFA years ever.

I agree this is the pivotal year, but Rome wasn't built in a day and it was likely an easier job than building this franchise again from nothing.
but the panthers were a playoff team after one day?!?!?!? Tallon>>>>>Burke, fire burke


not srs

pooleboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 10:41 AM
  #113
pooleboy
#tankformcdavid
 
pooleboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 5,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Yes I've heard these pro JFJ arguments before. If it is so widely known that he was a victim and (under the right circstances) a compitent GM, then why isn't he more than a scout for the San Jose Sharks? Surely the hockey world knows as much as you about Jason Alison's point total, Pogge's deflated confidence, Toskala's hot season for the Sharks, and the shootout goal that sealed JFJ's fate. Surely he can manage another NHL team right?
i actually agree with you..... feelswierdman.jpg

if JFJ was a good GM he would have another job by now, fact is he isn't. the guy who traded our top goalie prospect for a career backup, u cannot say Burke has handcuffed the leafs this bad. he traded picks (which ended up being Logan Couture) for toskalol. imo this whole hole were in is JFJ's fault as well as Richard Peddie.

pooleboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 10:49 AM
  #114
The Newfoundlander
#TradeKessel
 
The Newfoundlander's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,121
vCash: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
i actually agree with you..... feelswierdman.jpg

if JFJ was a good GM he would have another job by now, fact is he isn't. the guy who traded our top goalie prospect for a career backup, u cannot say Burke has handcuffed the leafs this bad. he traded picks (which ended up being Logan Couture) for toskalol. imo this whole hole were in is JFJ's fault as well as Richard Peddie.
That pick ended up being Lars Eller. Not Like Eller is some stud.

The Newfoundlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 11:07 AM
  #115
ACC1224
Steelers 9-5
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: vs KC
Posts: 29,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
i actually agree with you..... feelswierdman.jpg

if JFJ was a good GM he would have another job by now, fact is he isn't. the guy who traded our top goalie prospect for a career backup, u cannot say Burke has handcuffed the leafs this bad. he traded picks (which ended up being Logan Couture) for toskalol. imo this whole hole were in is JFJ's fault as well as Richard Peddie.
Not really a fair way to judge when there are only 30 jobs available World wide.

**** I'm not saying JFjr was a good GM. ******

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 11:15 AM
  #116
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 56,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
i actually agree with you..... feelswierdman.jpg

if JFJ was a good GM he would have another job by now, fact is he isn't. the guy who traded our top goalie prospect for a career backup, u cannot say Burke has handcuffed the leafs this bad. he traded picks (which ended up being Logan Couture) for toskalol. imo this whole hole were in is JFJ's fault as well as Richard Peddie.
It is hard to rank how Burke is doing at the draft though, as a total of 51 games have been played by Burke's Leafs draft picks.

To say JFj left nothing is not correct, several of the assets with the Leafs are or have played in the NHL, including:

Stalberg - Steen - Kulemin
Tlusty - Wellwood - Frattin
Mitchell - Stajan - Komarov on the way.
Rau - Earl - Williams

Stralman - Gunnarsson
White - Harrison
Holzer - Colaiacovo

Reimer

I'm not saying this is a powerhouse at all but they are assets, some which Burke used for his transactions landing Phaneuf and Versteeg.

Okay, I agree we don't need to rank his drafts until he's been given another couple years for players to start making the show.

Same with Florida, in the time Burke has been drafting in Toronto they've only had 299 NHL games played. It isn't unusual for prospects to take 3+ years to make the NHL.

Where' Zeke when you need some stats produced?

ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 10:13 PM
  #117
ForSpareParts*
agreement
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,904
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
It is hard to rank how Burke is doing at the draft though, as a total of 51 games have been played by Burke's Leafs draft picks.

To say JFj left nothing is not correct, several of the assets with the Leafs are or have played in the NHL, including:

Stalberg - Steen - Kulemin
Tlusty - Wellwood - Frattin
Mitchell - Stajan - Komarov on the way.
Rau - Earl - Williams

Stralman - Gunnarsson
White - Harrison
Holzer - Colaiacovo

Reimer


I'm not saying this is a powerhouse at all but they are assets, some which Burke used for his transactions landing Phaneuf and Versteeg.

Okay, I agree we don't need to rank his drafts until he's been given another couple years for players to start making the show.

Same with Florida, in the time Burke has been drafting in Toronto they've only had 299 NHL games played. It isn't unusual for prospects to take 3+ years to make the NHL.

Where' Zeke when you need some stats produced?
Best 9th place team of all time.


ForSpareParts* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2012, 10:39 PM
  #118
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 56,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Stalberg - Steen - Kulemin
Tlusty - Wellwood - Frattin
Mitchell - Stajan - Komarov on the way.
Rau - Earl - Williams

Stralman - Gunnarsson
White - Harrison
Holzer - Colaiacovo

Reimer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Best 9th place team of all time.

Well we could add the 7th. overall (Colin Wilson), 5th. overall (OEL), 2nd. overall (Seguin), 1st. overall (RNH), and 3rd. overall (Galchenyuk) that could have been drafted with that team.


ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2012, 03:04 PM
  #119
Leafs For Life*
Nothing
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Well we could add the 7th. overall (Colin Wilson), 5th. overall (OEL), 2nd. overall (Seguin), 1st. overall (RNH), and 3rd. overall (Galchenyuk) that could have been drafted with that team.

Or Karlsson, OEL, Tarasenko/Kuznetsov/Granlund, RNH, Yakupov? Be a pretty good 1st line,

One of the 3-RNH-Yakupov
...........Karlsson-OEL

Leafs For Life* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:32 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.