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Episode IX|The Off-Season Thread|It's... still the offseason.

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Old
12-23-2012, 11:13 AM
  #626
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Niskanen played a lot in the top 4 last season and did just fine. I wouldn't be against giving him more responsibility, and giving Sarge the easy mins to keep him fresh.

Gonchar now is not the same one that was here 2 years ago. I wouldn't want him playing 20+ mins a game.
I get what you are saying on everything but the bolded part. 2 years ago, he was a number 1 D. You don't drop 4 spots in 2 seasons, it just doesn't happen. If he were to play in Ottawa, he would be on the 2nd pair along Phillips, who is eerily similar to Orpik in play style. And Niskanen has played along Engo pretty much his entire time here in Pitt. You can't ignore chemistry, Orpik-Gonchar was our best pair here for the longest time.

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12-23-2012, 11:17 AM
  #627
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Trading Michalek all but assured Niskanen is getting a top 4 role this year. I'd bring Gonch back as a PP specialist, if he outplays Niskanen at ES then great.

And people on here "ride his jack so hard" b/c he was our only consistent D-man in the Philly series aside from Letang. And he played 20+ minutes quite a bit last year. Getting 1st unit PP time and going up against the tough matchups. It is what it is. The kid's rebounded here and I'd like to see what he can do as our #4.
Letang was even iffy. My issue with the hype for Niskanen is that his skill level is being blown out of proportion. He is definitely the most consistent D on the team. That being said, I don't like the idea of bringing in a D that is getting paid $5.5 million to be a number 5. For that money, he better be in the top-4.

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12-23-2012, 11:18 AM
  #628
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
I get what you are saying on everything but the bolded part. 2 years ago, he was a number 1 D. You don't drop 4 spots in 2 seasons, it just doesn't happen. If he were to play in Ottawa, he would be on the 2nd pair along Phillips, who is eerily similar to Orpik in play style. And Niskanen has played along Engo pretty much his entire time here in Pitt. You can't ignore chemistry, Orpik-Gonchar was our best pair here for the longest time.
Gonchar isn't a top 4 defender on a Cup contender. He'd wear down over the course of the postseason. Limiting his minutes at ES and giving him the reins to our PP puts him in a position to succeed here.

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12-23-2012, 11:19 AM
  #629
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Kovalev and Gonchar are COMPLETELY different situations. Kovalev was having a bad year and they were out of the playoffs. Gonchar just had a rebound year last year (40 or so points), and is essential to their blue line now that Cowen in out for the season. Not to mention that the Sens have a good shot at making the playoffs. And you think we could get him for a 7th round pick?
Yeah, he had a rebound year playing a reduced role, and being given easier mins. He's still an average top 4 defenseman, but not for much longer. He's leaving Ottawa regardless in what is now 48 games. Yes...I'd give them a late round pick. Certainly nothing more than a 5th rounder. They can either take that, or get nothing. They don't have any sort of leverage in this situation at all.

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12-23-2012, 11:19 AM
  #630
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Letang was even iffy. My issue with the hype for Niskanen is that his skill level is being blown out of proportion. He is definitely the most consistent D on the team. That being said, I don't like the idea of bringing in a D that is getting paid $5.5 million to be a number 5. For that money, he better be in the top-4.
If by some miracle there is a season, we're not paying Gonchar's full contract. And with the 70 mil cap, we have plenty of room to handle his contract. Resign him in the offseason on a one year deal if he works out. Gives us time to groom Morrow for the job after Gonch retires.

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12-23-2012, 11:23 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Letang was even iffy. My issue with the hype for Niskanen is that his skill level is being blown out of proportion. He is definitely the most consistent D on the team. That being said, I don't like the idea of bringing in a D that is getting paid $5.5 million to be a number 5. For that money, he better be in the top-4.
Which is why we should probably just wait for the offseason to sign him. The theory behind trading for him is we have the cap space, and even with the cap drop, we'd be still be able to handle his pro-rated number.

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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
I get what you are saying on everything but the bolded part. 2 years ago, he was a number 1 D. You don't drop 4 spots in 2 seasons, it just doesn't happen. If he were to play in Ottawa, he would be on the 2nd pair along Phillips, who is eerily similar to Orpik in play style. And Niskanen has played along Engo pretty much his entire time here in Pitt. You can't ignore chemistry, Orpik-Gonchar was our best pair here for the longest time.
He wasn't a #1 when he left here. He was filling that role, but he was not a number 1. He was in decline even then, and yes, defensemen DO drop that fast when their skills start eroding.

Niskanen would probably benefit from playing with better partners. No reason to pigeonhole the guy...he played very well last season, and can probably take on more responsiblity.

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12-23-2012, 11:28 AM
  #632
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Gonchar would probably bounce around between 2nd and 3rd pairing. I could definitely see Niskanen getting more ES minutes than him. Gonchar might be the better player on any given night, but I think he'd be better off conserving what gas he has left in the tank. A short season would be the right time to bring him in though.

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12-24-2012, 11:23 AM
  #633
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Some people are idiots on the trade boards.

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12-24-2012, 11:40 AM
  #634
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Some people are idiots on the trade boards.
There's idiots everywhere. Better get used to them.

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12-24-2012, 11:43 AM
  #635
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A shortened season minimal role? I'd take him in a second.

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:25 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Gonchar would probably bounce around between 2nd and 3rd pairing. I could definitely see Niskanen getting more ES minutes than him. Gonchar might be the better player on any given night, but I think he'd be better off conserving what gas he has left in the tank. A short season would be the right time to bring him in though.
Problem is that it won't be a shorten season for him since he and Geno are playing over there.


I'd say no, but if it's one last who-ra then maybe on the cheap.

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12-24-2012, 01:39 PM
  #637
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Problem is that it won't be a shorten season for him since he and Geno are playing over there.


I'd say no, but if it's one last who-ra then maybe on the cheap.
And that is an issue because...

Seriously people, it isn't like he is 50 or something. He is still able to play. I'd be fine with him getting 15 minutes or so a game and being the PP specialist. But people saying that we shouldn't get him because he is old need a reality check. He is a fantastic offensive D with a powerful shot. He is old, but he is still able to play. Just because a player is 38 doesn't mean that we shouldn't get him. He is still able to produce 35-40 points on the back end, which can't hurt at all.

And if you think we could get Gonch back for nothing, you need to stop drinking. He is still a PP QB that could be in the top-4 of some teams. I think it would take at least a 2nd to get him. Maybe Strait and a 3rd, something like that. He isn't in the same situation as Kovalev or Guerin. In both situations, the teams were way out of any postseason positions and were under-performing on their respective teams. Gonchar just had a rebound year, and with Cowen out for an extended time, they will need him. They won't sell him cheap.

Seriously people, it's not that hard.

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12-24-2012, 02:01 PM
  #638
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
And that is an issue because...

Seriously people, it isn't like he is 50 or something. He is still able to play. I'd be fine with him getting 15 minutes or so a game and being the PP specialist. But people saying that we shouldn't get him because he is old need a reality check. He is a fantastic offensive D with a powerful shot. He is old, but he is still able to play. Just because a player is 38 doesn't mean that we shouldn't get him. He is still able to produce 35-40 points on the back end, which can't hurt at all.

And if you think we could get Gonch back for nothing, you need to stop drinking. He is still a PP QB that could be in the top-4 of some teams. I think it would take at least a 2nd to get him. Maybe Strait and a 3rd, something like that. He isn't in the same situation as Kovalev or Guerin. In both situations, the teams were way out of any postseason positions and were under-performing on their respective teams. Gonchar just had a rebound year, and with Cowen out for an extended time, they will need him. They won't sell him cheap.

Seriously people, it's not that hard.
5.5 say's it all. They gave up a 7th rounder for Kovalev. Now remember this isn't for an entire season of, Gonchar.

Anything above a mid prospect or 4th round pick would be really bad asset management. The Pens would have to unload two players instead of one on defense.

Common sense should prevail here.

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12-24-2012, 02:12 PM
  #639
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It would take a 2nd-rounder to acquire Gonchar. He's still a capable enough player to be in any teams top-6 and is still above-average offensively.

People need to remember Paul ****ing Gaustand got a 1st-round pick last year. That's a bottom-6 center who's only real value comes in taking faceoffs. There's no way Gonchar ends up going for anything less than a 3rd and most likely it'll take a 2nd round pick.

I'd rather go into the playoffs (in the small chance that there is a season) with Gonchar in a reduced role than some of the alternatives the Pens provide.

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12-24-2012, 02:40 PM
  #640
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It would take a 2nd-rounder to acquire Gonchar. He's still a capable enough player to be in any teams top-6 and is still above-average offensively.

People need to remember Paul ****ing Gaustand got a 1st-round pick last year. That's a bottom-6 center who's only real value comes in taking faceoffs. There's no way Gonchar ends up going for anything less than a 3rd and most likely it'll take a 2nd round pick.

I'd rather go into the playoffs (in the small chance that there is a season) with Gonchar in a reduced role than some of the alternatives the Pens provide.
Exactly. I'd much rather have Gonchar on my bottom pair than freaking Lovejoy

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12-24-2012, 02:42 PM
  #641
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It would take a 2nd-rounder to acquire Gonchar. He's still a capable enough player to be in any teams top-6 and is still above-average offensively.

People need to remember Paul ****ing Gaustand got a 1st-round pick last year. That's a bottom-6 center who's only real value comes in taking faceoffs. There's no way Gonchar ends up going for anything less than a 3rd and most likely it'll take a 2nd round pick.

I'd rather go into the playoffs (in the small chance that there is a season) with Gonchar in a reduced role than some of the alternatives the Pens provide.
Might as well go after a better player if we're talking a 2nd rounder. If Murray does end up wanting a high draft pick, then it'll be some other GM that pays it. Shero isn't that dumb.

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12-24-2012, 03:06 PM
  #642
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Might as well go after a better player if we're talking a 2nd rounder. If Murray does end up wanting a high draft pick, then it'll be some other GM that pays it. Shero isn't that dumb.

We need to stop trading draft picks for rentals. McKenzie, Button & others have said this draft is "60 players deep" (at least) with good talent, so I don't want to move any picks.


We have spent years drafting Dmen for the purpose of trading some of them for forwards. We know that Strait & Lovejoy are near the top of that list, so I think one of those 2 guys is fair, if the Pens truly want Gonch. Or, of course, Martin, if the Pens need to shed salary. If Gonch comes in, Martin goes out -- whether that`s to Ottawa or another team in another deal. Can`t afford both.

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12-24-2012, 03:11 PM
  #643
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Are we seriously getting all excited about trading for Gonchar because Bruce Garrioch said so? You just know the first thing Ray Shero decided to do in the middle of the lockout was to call Bruce Garrioch and tell him he's going to trade for Gonchar. Or maybe it's because Gonchar and Malkin are BFF's. I guess that makes sense, considering that's the biggest reason why Crosby's besties, Max Talbot and Colby Armstrong, are still on the team.

Dear Lord (Happy birthday), hockey seriously needs to start back up soon.

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12-24-2012, 03:55 PM
  #644
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It would take a 2nd-rounder to acquire Gonchar. He's still a capable enough player to be in any teams top-6 and is still above-average offensively.

People need to remember Paul ****ing Gaustand got a 1st-round pick last year. That's a bottom-6 center who's only real value comes in taking faceoffs. There's no way Gonchar ends up going for anything less than a 3rd and most likely it'll take a 2nd round pick.

I'd rather go into the playoffs (in the small chance that there is a season) with Gonchar in a reduced role than some of the alternatives the Pens provide.
The Sens need to spend money to reach the cap floor if they move Gonchar, I think Martin would be a good start and maybe a low draft pick like a 4th or 5th. If they want a 2nd they can keep dreaming. Also Gaustad was moved at the deadline and you always overpay at that time of the year so you can't really compare

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12-24-2012, 03:57 PM
  #645
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Are we seriously getting all excited about trading for Gonchar because Bruce Garrioch said so? You just know the first thing Ray Shero decided to do in the middle of the lockout was to call Bruce Garrioch and tell him he's going to trade for Gonchar. Or maybe it's because Gonchar and Malkin are BFF's. I guess that makes sense, considering that's the biggest reason why Crosby's besties, Max Talbot and Colby Armstrong, are still on the team.

Dear Lord (Happy birthday), hockey seriously needs to start back up soon.
I'd like him back especially if we can move Martin but I agree nothing to get excited about and Garrioch has a worse % then Eklund

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12-24-2012, 04:14 PM
  #646
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Some people are idiots on the trade boards.
Only some? I doubt that I have seen enough good proposals on that board that I could count on one hand and leave some fingers remaining over the years. Especially when Pens' players are involved. ie, 'It is obvious you all can not keep Crosby and Malkin. So here is this load of crap for Malkin, and be happy we will take him off your hands. Now watch me get angry at you and call you an idiot because you will not take five Scott Gomez type players for him.'

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12-24-2012, 04:19 PM
  #647
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Only some? I doubt that I have seen enough good proposals on that board that I could count on one hand and leave some fingers remaining over the years. Especially when Pens' players are involved. ie, 'It is obvious you all can not keep Crosby and Malkin. So here is this load of crap for Malkin, and be happy we will take him off your hands. Now watch me get angry at you and call you an idiot because you will not take five Scott Gomez type players for him.'
So just like any Pens fan when they try to propose a trade for Bobby Ryan?

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12-24-2012, 04:27 PM
  #648
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So just like any Pens fan when they try to propose a trade for Bobby Ryan?
Stupidity does not wear only one jersey. Though a couple of fan bases come immediately to mind as seemingly having a monopoly on it on these boards. But yeah, some of the home folk get dumb when they venture onto that board as well.

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12-24-2012, 04:41 PM
  #649
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So just like any Pens fan when they try to propose a trade for Bobby Ryan?
For sure we have some posters who should stay off the main boards but the Pens hate has been going on since Crosby was drafted on these boards and it's really frustrating when trying to make a point until ou realize most of these people are 12 yearl olds

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12-24-2012, 06:47 PM
  #650
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I was really surprised how well Gonchar played last season. I do think he's still good but an aging rental like him still isn't worth a ton. He's probably worth more to the Sens unless they quickly fall out of it if there's a season.

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