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Episode IX|The Off-Season Thread|It's... still the offseason.

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Old
12-24-2012, 11:10 PM
  #651
Saving Greiss
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Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
We need to stop trading draft picks for rentals. McKenzie, Button & others have said this draft is "60 players deep" (at least) with good talent, so I don't want to move any picks.
Not advocating for trading draft picks, at least in this year's draft.


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We have spent years drafting Dmen for the purpose of trading some of them for forwards. We know that Strait & Lovejoy are near the top of that list, so I think one of those 2 guys is fair, if the Pens truly want Gonch. Or, of course, Martin, if the Pens need to shed salary. If Gonch comes in, Martin goes out -- whether that`s to Ottawa or another team in another deal. Can`t afford both.
I'm just surprised at the Gonchar stuff, for two reasons...

1) He isn't what this team needs.
2) There might be better options out there.

But yeah, if Gonchar comes in, then Martin goes out. Although, I'd take Martin over Gonchar, but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Only some? I doubt that I have seen enough good proposals on that board that I could count on one hand and leave some fingers remaining over the years. Especially when Pens' players are involved. ie, 'It is obvious you all can not keep Crosby and Malkin. So here is this load of crap for Malkin, and be happy we will take him off your hands. Now watch me get angry at you and call you an idiot because you will not take five Scott Gomez type players for him.'
The new thing is "you guys have a ton of defense prospects. So you guys can deal them away willy nilly."


Last edited by Saving Greiss: 12-24-2012 at 11:17 PM.
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Old
12-24-2012, 11:29 PM
  #652
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I think our PP could use Gonch. Sullivan didn't get enough credit for our success last year on the man advantage. We need another point man. Ideally someone who can skate the puck into the zone outside of Sid/Geno.

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Old
12-26-2012, 06:28 PM
  #653
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"Give us your top prospect or else!"

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Old
12-26-2012, 07:44 PM
  #654
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Some of the pieces that Ottawa fans want are hilarious.

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12-26-2012, 07:47 PM
  #655
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I'd be willing to rebuild their defense if they send us Michalek as well. Depends if Ottawa feels comfortable with their forward prospects and if they're going to compete in the near future.

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12-26-2012, 07:52 PM
  #656
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I'd include one of Dumoulin/Despres/Morrow/ect. if they include Michalek. I'd be willing to do:

Morrow, Kennedy, Jeffery and a 2nd for Gonchar and Michalek

That deal essentially breaks down into Morrow, Jeffery and Kennedy for Michalek and a 2nd for Gonchar. That is also without looking at salaries.

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12-26-2012, 07:54 PM
  #657
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I'd wait until the offseason for Gonchar. Even then, I'd rather see him behind the bench than on the roster.

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Old
12-26-2012, 08:12 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
I'd include one of Dumoulin/Despres/Morrow/ect. if they include Michalek. I'd be willing to do:

Morrow, Kennedy, Jeffery and a 2nd for Gonchar and Michalek

That deal essentially breaks down into Morrow, Jeffery and Kennedy for Michalek and a 2nd for Gonchar. That is also without looking at salaries.
Hell no. We need Morrow and arguably Kennedy more than we need either Gonch or Michalek.

Keeping the puck out of the net is the Pens' problem, not putting it in.

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12-26-2012, 08:46 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
Hell no. We need Morrow and arguably Kennedy more than we need either Gonch or Michalek.

Keeping the puck out of the net is the Pens' problem, not putting it in.
Michalek>TK BY A TON. I'd take him in a heartbeat. Morrow would have to go to get a good winger.

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Old
12-26-2012, 09:08 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
Hell no. We need Morrow and arguably Kennedy more than we need either Gonch or Michalek.

Keeping the puck out of the net is the Pens' problem, not putting it in.
That deal might be too much for Michalek, but goal scorers don't come cheap. I don't know how anyone could even try to argue that Kennedy is ever needed by anyone more than Michalek though. Michalek is simply a much better hockey player.

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12-26-2012, 09:25 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Michalek>TK BY A TON. I'd take him in a heartbeat. Morrow would have to go to get a good winger.
I wasn't trying to imply that Kennedy is better than Michalek, he isn't. IMO we need that solid shutdown line of Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy more than we need a two way, perennial 25 goal scorer that has had injury problems lately. He comes with a 4+ cap hit and isn't signed much longer.

It wouldn't be good asset management to trade that package for stuff we don't need at all. Especially since there is good chance they aren't going to be long term pieces for this club. The latter could, but then essentially you're giving up Morrow+Kennedy+Jeffrey+2nd round pick for Michalek.

I don't know why so many people here want Gonch back. Ottawa won't trade him. He just had a rebound season and they need top-4 defensemen. We don't need another puck moving defender. We need someone like Matt Greene Sure, he'd help out the PP, but having everyone healthy for once should help the PP.

Ottawa doesn't even need any defensive prospects or bottom-6 players so they wouldn't even consider that trade.

If Morrow is traded then he'd be packaged in getting a legitimate winger, such as Bobby Ryan or another young winger still in his RFA years.

The point is: The Penguins don't need Gonchar or Michalek. Milan is a nice piece, but not a necessity. That's not to say I wouldn't like GMRS to make a move on him even though Ottawa won't trade him or would want nothing short of an overpayment, something Shero wouldn't do. Plus, isn't he a major part of their rebuild....

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12-26-2012, 09:32 PM
  #662
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Tyler Kennedy is at best average defensively and has also had injury problems lately. In fact, he's had injury problems always. Morrow is the only piece of that I would have any hesitation moving for that return. But seriously, you don't get Michalek without something valuable going back. A draft pick and two throw in forwards will not get Gonchar and Michalek. Michalek and Gonchar are the two best players in the trade.


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Old
12-26-2012, 09:46 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Tyler Kennedy is at best average defensively.
Let me rephrase: I want (and we need) that "grind these *****" down line. They won't be forced to play much in the defensive zone when they are forechecking like beasts and cycling the puck like mad men.

You need players like TK, that spark-plug, regardless of how ugly he is or how much he logo snipes. That is why I value him more than Michalek in terms of this team right now. If Ferreiro, Jeffrey, Tangradi or someone else prove they can provide something similar or better then yea, trade him and try to get a goal scoring winger.

The fact remains the same, we don't need to overpay to get pucks in the net!

Not saying I wouldn't take a goal scoring winger over TK, or at all. Just saying that it's not as much of a necessity as people may think.

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Old
12-26-2012, 09:55 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
Let me rephrase: I want (and we need) that "grind these *****" down line. They won't be forced to play much in the defensive zone when they are forechecking like beasts and cycling the puck like mad men.

You need players like TK, that spark-plug, regardless of how ugly he is or how much he logo snipes. That is why I value him more than Michalek in terms of this team right now. If Ferreiro, Jeffrey, Tangradi or someone else prove they can provide something similar or better then yea, trade him and try to get a goal scoring winger.

The fact remains the same, we don't need to overpay to get pucks in the net!

Not saying I wouldn't take a goal scoring winger over TK, or at all. Just saying that it's not as much of a necessity as people may think.
I love TK. I really do. I own a TK jersey. But he is not more valuable to any team at any time than Milan Michalek. Any line with TK on it would be a better line if he was replaced with MM. It would also be more expensive -- which I understand was part of your original point -- but I really do think TK could be replaced on that line by any number of guys that you listed. Or even better: by Dupuis if we can insert a guy like Michalek into the top 6.

edit: yes I know we'd need 1 more top 6 winger to move Dupuis to the 3rd line. But it also opens up a camp battle for a 3rd line spot for Tangradi and Jeffrey while filling the top 6 spots.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 12-26-2012 at 10:01 PM.
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Old
12-26-2012, 10:11 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I love TK. I really do. I own a TK jersey. But he is not more valuable to any team at any time than Milan Michalek. Any line with TK on it would be a better line if he was replaced with MM. It would also be more expensive -- which I understand was part of your original point -- but I really do think TK could be replaced on that line by any number of guys that you listed. Or even better: by Dupuis if we can insert a guy like Michalek into the top 6.

edit: yes I know we'd need 1 more top 6 winger to move Dupuis to the 3rd line.
It's not like I don't agree on your points. Really, I think that the point that I want to get across here is not one of TK vs Michalek because it's clear that Michalek is the better player and I'd take him in a heartbeat, it's more of one about necessity. Michalek on paper would seem like a good choice for Crosby. He's fast, has good hands and goal scoring ability. I'd just like to wait and let the course run though.

There are going to be plenty of solid wingers hitting UFA soon, Bennett is progressing well and once again, our problem isn't putting pucks in the net.

Morrow could develop very nicely and could be used to find an even better winger for Crosby. No reason to pull the trigger at the point with that asset.

All of this is besides the point anyways. Ottawa won't trade Michalek anytime soon. He was part of the Heatley trade, a key part of their rebuild and has good chemistry with Spezza.

edit: I'm convinced Jeffrey, Ferreiro or Tangradi could replace Kennedy. It'd take an overpayment to get Michalek from Ottawa. Let's say Morrow++. Why not wait until the UFA crop hits the market or give another team an overpayment for Sid's winger. Ottawa and the Pens aren't good trade partners to begin with. I'd much, much rather go a different route than Milan Michalek and the Ottawa Senators in general.

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12-26-2012, 10:13 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
It's not like I don't agree on your points. Really, I think that the point that I want to get across here is not one of TK vs Michalek because it's clear that Michalek is the better player and I'd take him in a heartbeat, it's more of one about necessity. Michalek on paper would seem like a good choice for Crosby. He's fast, has good hands and goal scoring ability. I'd just like to wait and let the course run though.

There are going to be plenty of solid wingers hitting UFA soon, Bennett is progressing well and once again, our problem isn't putting pucks in the net.

Morrow could develop very nicely and could be used to find an even better winger for Crosby. No reason to pull the trigger at the point with that asset.

All of this is besides the point anyways. Ottawa won't trade Michalek anytime soon. He was part of the Heatley trade, a key part of their rebuild and has good chemistry with Spezza.
fair enough. That trade definitely isn't happening.

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12-26-2012, 10:14 PM
  #667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
Let me rephrase: I want (and we need) that "grind these *****" down line. They won't be forced to play much in the defensive zone when they are forechecking like beasts and cycling the puck like mad men.

You need players like TK, that spark-plug, regardless of how ugly he is or how much he logo snipes. That is why I value him more than Michalek in terms of this team right now. If Ferreiro, Jeffrey, Tangradi or someone else prove they can provide something similar or better then yea, trade him and try to get a goal scoring winger.

The fact remains the same, we don't need to overpay to get pucks in the net!

Not saying I wouldn't take a goal scoring winger over TK, or at all. Just saying that it's not as much of a necessity as people may think.
Vitale is a spark plug and way cheaper then TK is. If this team is keeping TK for energy and grinding then there is going to never be a good winger on Sids line. 2mil for a spark plug is not something this team can afford, especially with the cap coming down.

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Old
12-26-2012, 10:21 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Zirakzigil View Post
Vitale is a spark plug and way cheaper then TK is. If this team is keeping TK for energy and grinding then there is going to never be a good winger on Sids line. 2mil for a spark plug is not something this team can afford, especially with the cap coming down.
We won't have to even worry about that anyways. Good chance TK will be gone sooner than later to the open market.

Just another reason Ottawa wouldn't even consider a deal around us and those players. We'd easily have to add, and would need to give Ottawa a massive overpayment.

And that's the point. I'd much rather hold onto the assets that it'd require to acquire Michalek then giving Ottawa a huge overpayment.

Let's just look elsewhere for Crosby's winger.

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12-27-2012, 12:30 AM
  #669
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I think this is the correct thread to ask....has anyone heard anything about Fleury recently? Maybe I am just blanking, but it seems like the dude just fell off the face of the Earth.

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12-27-2012, 12:42 AM
  #670
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Last I read was he was in Pittsburgh. Practicing at southpoint.

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12-27-2012, 09:03 AM
  #671
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Some of the pieces that Ottawa fans want are hilarious.
"Our defense would be terrible without Gonchar (as if it already isn't) so we need Despres in return!"

EDT: That would be like Pens fans wanting Chicago to give up Teravainen for Dupuis, just because the Pens' group of wingers is suspect.

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12-27-2012, 09:28 AM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
"Our defense would be terrible without Gonchar (as if it already isn't) so we need Despres in return!"

EDT: That would be like Pens fans wanting Chicago to give up Teravainen for Dupuis, just because the Pens' group of wingers is suspect.
Where are you hearing these? I'm in the mood for a good laugh.

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12-27-2012, 09:35 AM
  #673
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Where are you hearing these? I'm in the mood for a good laugh.
Similar comments in both threads, more so in the first.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1311303
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1309535

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12-27-2012, 10:49 AM
  #674
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Remember who Calgary fans wanted for Jerome Iginla?

"We want Jordan Staal"

Since when do young players with potential get traded for good 35+ year old veterans.

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12-27-2012, 11:56 AM
  #675
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Asking for a 2nd for Gonch isn't bad at all. I look at that in the same way I look at the Visnovsky deal, so a 2nd would be fair. And the Pens fans saying that he isn't even worth a 4th aren't well informed. And as I said in the forum, if they want one of Despres/Dumoulin/Morrow, we better be getting Michalek back.

This forum is funny:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1311073


Last edited by penguins2946*: 12-27-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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