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Taylor vs Tyler

View Poll Results: Taylor Hall vs Tyler Seguin
Taylor Hall 153 44.74%
Tyler Seguin 189 55.26%
Voters: 342. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-04-2012, 07:53 PM
  #126
SephF
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Hall is better hands down, the only thing Seguin has on Hall is hands. Hall has more drive, better shot, faster, competes harder, better goal scorer.

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Old
09-04-2012, 09:21 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Hall is better hands down, the only thing Seguin has on Hall is hands. Hall has more drive, better shot, faster, competes harder, better goal scorer.
When people say ***** like that, it just proves how ignorant posters can be on this forum

These two are so close talent wise and potential wise. You truly are just a homer. Neither is better "hands down."

By the way, check out the poll results.

Seguin had the better season but Hall had a better rookie year.

Yes I know Taylor had a better PPG this season but Tyler had better overall production or PP/20min, whichever way you want to look at it and much better ES production.

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Old
09-05-2012, 12:22 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by agreen23 View Post
When people say ***** like that, it just proves how ignorant posters can be on this forum

These two are so close talent wise and potential wise. You truly are just a homer. Neither is better "hands down."

By the way, check out the poll results.

Seguin had the better season but Hall had a better rookie year.

Yes I know Taylor had a better PPG this season but Tyler had better overall production or PP/20min, whichever way you want to look at it and much better ES production.
Tayor Hall also scored at the second best rate in terms of gpg on the PP in the league, only James Neal was ahead of him. Being good on the PP is a huge responsibility on the teams best players. Hall has shown to be very good on the PP and that has alot of value too.

For pts/60 i agree it's a quality measurement but you have to consider the Bruins are a much better team, it's just flat out easier to score on a top team than it is on a bottom feeder. Even strength is relatively equal IMO, Hall was still very productive and pushing the play up the ice at evens too. His results on an inferior team speaks volumns about his ability.

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Old
09-05-2012, 07:15 AM
  #129
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Stats are stats Oiler fans. I'm sorry you're mad.

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Old
09-05-2012, 09:13 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agreen23 View Post


Seguin had the better season but Hall had a better rookie year.
JUst exactly how did Tyler have the better season because he played 20 more games and scored 2 extra goals. Good logic. Have a good long look at the point per game averages between the two over both of their first two seasons and you'll see who's been better.

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09-05-2012, 09:23 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by oil4life14 View Post
JUst exactly how did Tyler have the better season because he played 20 more games and scored 2 extra goals. Good logic. Have a good long look at the point per game averages between the two over both of their first two seasons and you'll see who's been better.
This is a good thing.

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Old
09-05-2012, 09:32 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Bonecrusher11 View Post
Stats are stats Oiler fans. I'm sorry you're mad.
Stats are stats, but when you give an unfair advantage to one player you're so called "Knowledge" is flawed.

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09-05-2012, 10:08 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
Stats are stats, but when you give an unfair advantage to one player you're so called "Knowledge" is flawed.
I'm having trouble finding the unfair advantage I gave to Seguin in the list of stats I pulled off NHL.com. Enlighten me.

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09-05-2012, 10:59 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by bonecrusher11 View Post
i'm having trouble finding the unfair advantage i gave to seguin in the list of stats i pulled off nhl.com. Enlighten me.
he has played 20 more frigging games!!!!!!

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Old
09-05-2012, 12:56 PM
  #135
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I'm being very honest, I really wanted Taylor Hall 2 years ago and was pissed when the Oilers took him, but now and i'm being honest, I wouldn't trade Seguin for Hall

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09-05-2012, 01:23 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
he has played 20 more frigging games!!!!!!
Staying healthy is important... your not helping your team on the IR... for Hall that seems to be frequent.

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Old
09-05-2012, 01:59 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Bonecrusher11 View Post
Stats are stats Oiler fans. I'm sorry you're mad.
I guess it's safe to say RJ Umberger > Crosby

Stats are stats right?

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Old
09-05-2012, 02:29 PM
  #138
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IMO you can't have it both ways ie. Seguin outproduced Hall and I'd rather have him because he isn't injury prone. Hall had a whopping 2 less goals in 20 less games, so if you like Seguin more because so far he has been more durable and he produces similar offensive results, fine, but to just point to 29 goals for Seguin to Hall's 27 and saying that he outproduced him considering the games played disparity, it's not a fair statement.

While this isn't a fair comparison either since Seguin wasn't as NHL ready as Hall was in their rookie years, the fact remains that in 155 NHL games Seguin has scored 40 goals while in 126 games Hall has scored 49. That's 9 more goals for Hall in 29 less games. Hall's biggest issue in this comparison is the fact that injuries have cut short his first 2 NHL seasons, had they not I really doubt that this would be a fair comparison for Seguin at this point. That said I believe that we have yet to see the best of either player so there's no telling what their primes have in store.

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Old
09-05-2012, 02:32 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Staying healthy is important... your not helping your team on the IR... for Hall that seems to be frequent.
That is true, however to point to one guy scoring 2 more goals in 20 more games as a reason that he's a superior player, it is a poor argument. By all means use the health argument as it is a valid one, for all we know there could be a role reversal going forward and Hall stays healthy and Seguin misses some games due to injuries, both players are very early in their careers and there's a lot to be determined with them IMO.

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Old
09-05-2012, 02:37 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Bruinsfan_37 View Post
I'm being very honest, I really wanted Taylor Hall 2 years ago and was pissed when the Oilers took him, but now and i'm being honest, I wouldn't trade Seguin for Hall
I knew that Boston would be happy with Seguin in time, I followed them both closely in their draft year as we were chasing lottery balls pretty early in the year. IMO Seguin had more pure skill while Hall's win at all costs mentality and gamebreaking speed and shot IMO fit our team much better as the cornerstone for our team. It's really hard to argue how either team could've gone wrong with either guy. Another question to ask, had Hall been drafted by Boston and had a team full of bad ***** watching his back, would he be getting injured as much? Would he feel the need to fight Dorsett because his teammates weren't coming to his aid? Would Seguin have been as healthy had he been the Oilers primary target on a team that watched their prized young players get run time and time again and really didn't so anything about it? I personally think that things would've been different had these players gone to the other team, the Oilers need to smarten the **** up and start protecting their core players or else all of these years of high picks will mean nothing if they have career threatening injuries because our coaches are candy *****.

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09-05-2012, 02:41 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
That is true, however to point to one guy scoring 2 more goals in 20 more games as a reason that he's a superior player, it is a poor argument. By all means use the health argument as it is a valid one, for all we know there could be a role reversal going forward and Hall stays healthy and Seguin misses some games due to injuries, both players are very early in their careers and there's a lot to be determined with them IMO.
For sure. Too early to say for either...

However if Halls injuries persist its worth mentioning.... for instance I think Hemsky is more talented than Umberger, but Im willing to bet most people would take Umberger on their team over Hemsky due to health.


Both still young, great players.... anyone who says "hands down/not close" right now in this comparison is a flat out moron/homer.

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09-05-2012, 02:54 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
For sure. Too early to say for either...

However if Halls injuries persist its worth mentioning.... for instance I think Hemsky is more talented than Umberger, but Im willing to bet most people would take Umberger on their team over Hemsky due to health.


Both still young, great players.... anyone who says "hands down/not close" right now in this comparison is a flat out moron/homer.
Hopefully they both have relatively healthy careers, I don't like to see any player go through injury issues that derails their career. They both have their pluses and minuses, both fanbases are happy with the guy that they have so it seems like a win/win to me.

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:00 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
he has played 20 more frigging games!!!!!!
Why is being healthy a negative thing? Why is being hurt positive?

What if Hall went on a slump in those 20 games like Seguin did? Seguin had more points and had a better year... That possibly could have changed, but if Hall went on a slump, it could have changed in Seguin's favor as well... Don't forget Seguin plays on a team where it's defence first and then defending your defence second, then offense. He had limited ice time and PP time, and Claude is making him a two-way player. If we gave Seguin 20+ minutes of ice time and loads of PP time, he would have scored an exponentially larger amount of points..

I wouldn't be surprised if Seguin only gets a few more points than last year this year. But he'll be a much better overall player, and a much more important player to us.

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09-05-2012, 03:07 PM
  #144
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For pts/60 i agree it's a quality measurement but you have to consider the Bruins are a much better team, it's just flat out easier to score on a top team than it is on a bottom feeder. Even strength is relatively equal IMO, Hall was still very productive and pushing the play up the ice at evens too. His results on an inferior team speaks volumns about his ability.[/QUOTE]


That's not really true, especially for 1st line players. Often bad teams are bad because they let in a lot of goals forcing the forwards to play a more up-tempo attacking game (especially in the 3rd period when they're often down a goal or two) and start trading chances more. Also, when trailing the 1st line players will end up playing a lot more minutes as the game goes on. Often better teams start protecting their lead in the 3rd period, cut down minutes for top-line players, and ask them to be more defensively responsible.

Power plays are the other time that top-end players seem to pad their stats. Not that goals scored on the p.p. are any less valuable, just that it's a somewhat different game within a game. The Sedins are a good example of players that are unbelievable on the p.p. but not nearly as effective even strength (still very very good though). For top-end players, being part of a good power play could mean a 20pt. swing in production.

Both these players are too young to judge by stats.

I really like Taylor Hall. I think he has that rare blend of talent and aggressiveness and compete that we see too rarely in the NHL nowadays. He's the kind of player that will define his team and the kind of player teams win with... But right now and moving forward, I'd pick Tyler Seguin. I think he will continue to be the better player. His improvement from year to year (and with only two years of juniors) is amazing. Before his final year of junior how many people had even payed much attention to him. I don't think there's a young player in the NHL that touches his learning curve and at this pace he'll put himself in the Art Ross mix in a year or two (I doubt it but...)

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Old
09-05-2012, 04:23 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Staying healthy is important... your not helping your team on the IR... for Hall that seems to be frequent.
That is true but IMO it's not enough to compensate for the difference in production per game when comparing the two.

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Old
09-05-2012, 05:01 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by oil4life14 View Post
JUst exactly how did Tyler have the better season because he played 20 more games and scored 2 extra goals. Good logic. Have a good long look at the point per game averages between the two over both of their first two seasons and you'll see who's been better.
Way to read the rest of my post. Even better logic would be to argue with the post that you havent fully read. And in doing so, cherry pick one line to dispute.

Its hard to compare the two's first year, especially when you look at PPG, because Hall played more than 18 minutes a night on the 1st line with ample PP time while Seguin played 12 min a night on the 3rd and 4th lines with no PP time. Since it was much harder to crack the Bs roster than it was the Oilers.

Second year...

Yes Hall had a higher PPG but with more ice time and more PP time. Segs had better ES production and higher overall production in terms of icetime.

Overall production: (if you dont understand this, it means how many minutes it took for each player to record a point)
Seguin - 20:29
Hall - 20:58

ES Pts/60:
Seguin - 2.69
Hall - 2.07

Hall was better on the PP. 13 PP goals in 60something games is tremendous. But playing with RNH definitely helped out in that regard. Oilers had the 3rd most effective PP while the Bs had the 15-17th most effective PP. And Hall got ~35 additional seconds of PP time a night.

Hopefully youll read my entire post before responding, Id be surprised if you did though. It wouldnt suit your argument that PPG is the be all end all in determining a hockey players skill level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
While this isn't a fair comparison either since Seguin wasn't as NHL ready as Hall was in their rookie years, the fact remains that in 155 NHL games Seguin has scored 40 goals while in 126 games Hall has scored 49. That's 9 more goals for Hall in 29 less games. Hall's biggest issue in this comparison is the fact that injuries have cut short his first 2 NHL seasons, had they not I really doubt that this would be a fair comparison for Seguin at this point. That said I believe that we have yet to see the best of either player so there's no telling what their primes have in store.
Seguin's Career: 2,275 min and 300:10 PP; 40g-49a-89p

Hall's Career: 2,295 min and 364 PP; 49g-46a-95p

Even though Seguin has played 29 more games, Hall has 20 more minutes of TOI overall and 64 more minutes of PP time.

Hall's ice time has been in an offensive role with 1st line teammates.

~900 minutes of Seguin's ice time came with 3rd and 4th liner.

More TOI and more PPTOI in a more offensive role= more opportunity to produce.


Back to my original point, these two are too close to ultimately say who is better. After the most recent season, I give a slight edge to Seguin.


Last edited by agreen23: 09-05-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old
09-05-2012, 05:47 PM
  #147
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For the stats junkies, the up coming season oughta be nice as fat as comparing seguin and hall

Even if we miss some games, hopefully both play out a "full" season and put up nice numbers

Oilers fans - is hall injury/surgery supposed to make him miss time?

In a full season with no missed games:

Seguin - 80 games played 34 goals 44 assists 78 points +34

Hall - 77 games played 39 goals 46 assists 85 points +6

I think hall will likely out produce Tyler more often than not because of the way each player is utilized and how Claude rolls his lines. They oughta be neck and neck most of their careers as far as on ice performance however - ie how much they can be counted on to win you a game when you need it.

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09-05-2012, 05:59 PM
  #148
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IMO they are very similar skill and potential wise but what sets Hall apart from Seguin is his drive. That to me is what makes Hall better then Seguin but you cant go wrong with either player.

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09-05-2012, 06:01 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil4life14 View Post
JUst exactly how did Tyler have the better season because he played 20 more games and scored 2 extra goals. Good logic. Have a good long look at the point per game averages between the two over both of their first two seasons and you'll see who's been better.
Is this a joke? Since when are goals the only way to judge someones season?

Player A

61GP 27G 26A 53PTS -3 18:13 ATOI

Player B

81GP 29G 38A 67PTS +34 16:57 ATP

Which player had a better season? The one that can't stay healthy or the one that can actually play a full season and land in the top 30 in points?


Last edited by ErikKarlsson: 09-05-2012 at 06:09 PM.
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Old
09-05-2012, 06:56 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Lucic View Post
Why is being healthy a negative thing? Why is being hurt positive?

What if Hall went on a slump in those 20 games like Seguin did? Seguin had more points and had a better year... That possibly could have changed, but if Hall went on a slump, it could have changed in Seguin's favor as well... Don't forget Seguin plays on a team where it's defence first and then defending your defence second, then offense. He had limited ice time and PP time, and Claude is making him a two-way player. If we gave Seguin 20+ minutes of ice time and loads of PP time, he would have scored an exponentially larger amount of points..

I wouldn't be surprised if Seguin only gets a few more points than last year this year. But he'll be a much better overall player, and a much more important player to us.
Being healthy is important, I never said it wasn't.... Point is comparing point totals is unfair because Seguin played 20 more games.

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