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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Time for players to Cave In.

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01-22-2005, 05:13 PM
  #1
free0717
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Time for players to Cave In.

Time for players to cave

The owners are very united. They will not do business until they have a salary cap.
The players should just go to the owners and negotiate the best deal they can. They will not get a better deal down the road. And the Alternatives(playing in Europe) pale in comparison to the NHL even with a salary cap.

This is past right or wrong and taking sides. The owners are United, never before in a sport have the owners been so united. These are billionaires and they wont do business until they get the deal they want. These owners would let this lock out go on indefinitley until the get the economic system they want.

Bettman is the lead man, but has the support of every owner. The players keep losing paychecks. Players, its time to go back to work. Go the the owners and make the best deal you can. If you want more money, do everything you can do to make this game more popular.

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01-22-2005, 05:19 PM
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BLONG7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
Time for players to cave

The owners are very united. They will not do business until they have a salary cap.
The players should just go to the owners and negotiate the best deal they can. They will not get a better deal down the road. And the Alternatives(playing in Europe) pale in comparison to the NHL even with a salary cap.

This is past right or wrong and taking sides. The owners are United, never before in a sport have the owners been so united. These are billionaires and they wont do business until they get the deal they want. These owners would let this lock out go on indefinitley until the get the economic system they want.

Bettman is the lead man, but has the support of every owner. The players keep losing paychecks. Players, its time to go back to work. Go the the owners and make the best deal you can. If you want more money, do everything you can do to make this game more popular.
What could the PA get for giving in??? UFA at the age of 27-28???

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01-22-2005, 05:22 PM
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SuperUnknown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7
What could the PA get for giving in??? UFA at the age of 27-28???
I think they could swing most of the smaller (compared to the cap/no-cap) arguments their way.

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Old
01-22-2005, 05:23 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7
What could the PA get for giving in??? UFA at the age of 27-28???
I agree that is their only real expected value out of the NHL proposed deal ..

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01-22-2005, 05:24 PM
  #5
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if your gonna try to become like the NFL (salary cap) then you also gotta give something up, such as UFA after expiration of EVERY contract. Excluding rookie contracts.

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01-22-2005, 05:24 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
Time for players to cave

The owners are very united. They will not do business until they have a salary cap.
The players should just go to the owners and negotiate the best deal they can. They will not get a better deal down the road. And the Alternatives(playing in Europe) pale in comparison to the NHL even with a salary cap.

This is past right or wrong and taking sides. The owners are United, never before in a sport have the owners been so united. These are billionaires and they wont do business until they get the deal they want. These owners would let this lock out go on indefinitley until the get the economic system they want.

Bettman is the lead man, but has the support of every owner. The players keep losing paychecks. Players, its time to go back to work. Go the the owners and make the best deal you can. If you want more money, do everything you can do to make this game more popular.
Not likely.

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Old
01-22-2005, 06:00 PM
  #7
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I'm wonder what it is exactly that the NHLPA is holding out for? Like what do they expect to get by holding out for all this time?

I tell you, I want to see the look of their faces when they realize they held out for 2 years to get CFL salaries.

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01-22-2005, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
Time for players to cave

Bettman is the lead man, but has the support of every owner. The players keep losing paychecks. Players, its time to go back to work. Go the the owners and make the best deal you can. If you want more money, do everything you can do to make this game more popular.
Support the new league when it is formed.

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Old
01-22-2005, 06:03 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave
I'm wonder what it is exactly that the NHLPA is holding out for? Like what do they expect to get by holding out for all this time?

I tell you, I want to see the look of their faces when they realize they held out for 2 years to get CFL salaries.
CFL salaries... isn't the whole team around 2-3M, with one guy making 300-400K???

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01-23-2005, 08:05 AM
  #10
free0717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7
What could the PA get for giving in??? UFA at the age of 27-28???
You must be a player. Now is the time to give in to the Cap and make the best deal you can. To save the playoffs, the owners may give in an extra few percent.
They may lower the UFA age. They may give better Arbitration rights. But now is the best time to capitulate. The playoffs are a money making endevour for the owners and to lose it, the owners would just get more unified and your deal would be worse in the summer. 2. When you lose this season, you will lose fans, which will bring the whole revenue stream down. Since you get paid a percentage of the revenue, you are just cutting your own salary.

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01-23-2005, 08:15 AM
  #11
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oh come on, the cap is CRAP. So the cap goes in at 38 million. what do you think is going to happen. All teams just spend 38 million???

I will tell you what will happen right now with this GREAT (not) offer by the owners.

only some teams will spend up to the cap. Mainly the rich teams because they have the income to reach that far. Poorer teams will not because they won't have the cash. They haven't the cash now and they won't when they sign a new CAPPED CBA either. where do you think these teams will find around 5-6 million?? out of the NHL's revenue sharing plan hahahaha :lol

The Revenue Sharing plan only gives each team 2.5 million each. Most poorer teams won't reach the limit to even see the cash so that money goes back to the richer teams.

The rich team's value goes through the roof.

Player salaries go down and stay that way. PLayers choose to stay in Europe and the NHL is no longer the best league.

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01-23-2005, 08:59 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life
if your gonna try to become like the NFL (salary cap) then you also gotta give something up, such as UFA after expiration of EVERY contract. Excluding rookie contracts.
Keep in mind that with franchise and transition player determinations, NFL free agency isn't completely free.

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01-23-2005, 09:13 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwr38
oh come on, the cap is CRAP. So the cap goes in at 38 million. what do you think is going to happen. All teams just spend 38 million???

I will tell you what will happen right now with this GREAT (not) offer by the owners.

only some teams will spend up to the cap. Mainly the rich teams because they have the income to reach that far. Poorer teams will not because they won't have the cash. They haven't the cash now and they won't when they sign a new CAPPED CBA either. where do you think these teams will find around 5-6 million?? out of the NHL's revenue sharing plan hahahaha :lol

The Revenue Sharing plan only gives each team 2.5 million each. Most poorer teams won't reach the limit to even see the cash so that money goes back to the richer teams.

The rich team's value goes through the roof.

Player salaries go down and stay that way. PLayers choose to stay in Europe and the NHL is no longer the best league.

Only six teams last year were more than $2.5 million off the proposed salary floor last year. Four of those teams - Chicago, Pittsburgh, Atlanta and Minnesota - have now or will soon have the revenues to get there. That leaves only Florida and Nashville as questionables.

Now, ask yourself this: Why would the NHL propose a cap floor that many of its teams cannot afford? Perhaps because it knows those teams can afford it?

The "Players will all go to Europe" argument continues to raise its stupid, ugly head. The average salary for NHL players in Europe right now is $150,000. Under the proposed cap, the average NHL salary will be about $1.6 million. Nobody in their right mind believes the players will flee to Europe to earn 10 cents on the dollar what they'd make in the NHL.

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01-23-2005, 09:21 AM
  #14
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What I don't get is every player that I have heard interviewed always gives us, the fans, lip service. They tell us how great we are but refuse to come to their senses. Anyone with half a brain can see that professional sports franchise owners need a cap type system to keep the playing field fairly level and to create a standard starting point for all teams to compete from. The NHL needs a cap system more than any other pro sport because of a lack of TV revenue.

Message to you players; Most of us support the owners for a reason. Most of us have more life experiences to draw from and are speaking from the head and not just from our heart. Bring back hockey and listen to that voice of reason hidden somewhere in your head that says the best I can do right now is to call Bob or your agent or both and tell them you are prepared to return to work for the sake of the fans and all other employees that are counting on you. Tell him to compromise your stance on the cap system in return for concessions in all other areas

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01-23-2005, 10:45 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
You must be a player. Now is the time to give in to the Cap and make the best deal you can. To save the playoffs, the owners may give in an extra few percent.
They may lower the UFA age. They may give better Arbitration rights. But now is the best time to capitulate. The playoffs are a money making endevour for the owners and to lose it, the owners would just get more unified and your deal would be worse in the summer. 2. When you lose this season, you will lose fans, which will bring the whole revenue stream down. Since you get paid a percentage of the revenue, you are just cutting your own salary.
No I am not a player, although I would give my right nut to be...anyhow, I just think if the owners are going to get a cap, they have to get rid of a very restricted system of movement for the players...

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01-23-2005, 10:56 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7
No I am not a player, although I would give my right nut to be...anyhow, I just think if the owners are going to get a cap, they have to get rid of a very restricted system of movement for the players...
However unlike the NFL, the NHL doesn't propose to end guaranteed contracts. I do agree that if the NHL gets a cap, the FA age will drop a bit.

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01-23-2005, 11:04 AM
  #17
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Great......

Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life
if your gonna try to become like the NFL (salary cap) then you also gotta give something up, such as UFA after expiration of EVERY contract. Excluding rookie contracts.
Then every team with $$$$$$$$$$$ signs all the good young players.

Whoa, wait, Im all for it.....I'm a Flyers season tix holder, they have all the $ in the world.

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01-24-2005, 08:25 AM
  #18
free0717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7
No I am not a player, although I would give my right nut to be...anyhow, I just think if the owners are going to get a cap, they have to get rid of a very restricted system of movement for the players...
That is something to negotiate with the owners once the players give in to the concept of a cap. The owners might just go for Free Agency at 26 if they get there cap.

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01-24-2005, 08:30 AM
  #19
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I am also a proponent that the cap number should equal the bottom. All teams should be required to spend the same amount of money on payroll. If the small market teams dont like it, then negotiate with the other owners for a bigger revenue sharing plan. with the bottom equalling the cap, the players will be guaranteed an avg annual salary. Without a bottom, the players get no guarantee

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01-24-2005, 08:53 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki
Only six teams last year were more than $2.5 million off the proposed salary floor last year. Four of those teams - Chicago, Pittsburgh, Atlanta and Minnesota - have now or will soon have the revenues to get there. That leaves only Florida and Nashville as questionables.

Now, ask yourself this: Why would the NHL propose a cap floor that many of its teams cannot afford? Perhaps because it knows those teams can afford it?

The "Players will all go to Europe" argument continues to raise its stupid, ugly head. The average salary for NHL players in Europe right now is $150,000. Under the proposed cap, the average NHL salary will be about $1.6 million. Nobody in their right mind believes the players will flee to Europe to earn 10 cents on the dollar what they'd make in the NHL.
Yes, only six teams were below the floor last year. However, in the 02-03 season the year the NHL claims that 19 of the 30 franchises lost money 10 teams were below the 32 mil floor: Atlanta(26), Buffalo(31.1), Columbus(28.2), Edmonton(30.9), Minnesota(20.5), Nashville(25.2), Ottawa(30.3), Pittsburgh(31.2), Tampa(28.9), Vancouver(31.8). In addition 2 teams were awfully close to the cap, Calgary at 33.3 and Florida at 32.7. Where is the league going to get the revenue for a third of the league to be profitable in the long run? I think you asked a great question. Why would the league propose this cap if it knows teams can't survive in this situation? Maybe they really aren't losing as much money as they would like everyone to believe?

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01-24-2005, 09:03 AM
  #21
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I think that under a cap system the revenue sharing would go up, That's how the teams would reach the floor.

If the floor is set at 52% of the league's revenue then you could have every team put 52% of their revenue into a central fund, then disperse that amount to every team allowing the league to essentially cover contracts up to the salary floor. This way every team gives up the same % of their revenue and every team reaches the floor.

Is this fair to teams who make the most revenue? no, not really. But there is a number in there somewhere that is fair to most teams and allows all the teams to be able to reach the salary floor.

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01-24-2005, 09:44 AM
  #22
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Do players even realize how they are alienating fans with all their rhetoric?

Do players even realize how they are alienating fans with all their rhetoric? IMO, almost everytime a current NHL player opens his mouth he alienates more hockey fans. Many will never again pay to see these guys play, hence, their value and potential earning power are reduced even further. Everytime they open their mouths they delay negotiations, they fuel the anger that many owners feel right now towards them and their leader.

I feel for these guys because I doubt any of them have had much if any training on how to deal with the media when it comes to non-standardized answers. Their hurting the game's image and hurting themselves, the fans and the owners - likely without even realizing it. It's a shame.

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01-24-2005, 10:03 AM
  #23
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I just cant believe the players arent at the table bargaining table. What universe are they on that they believe the owners will capitulate. Are the players really going to kill the cow that gives them milk over principal. If any players read this, wake up and smell the coffee, this is your time to get your best deal, so accept the salary cap and make your best deal.

We as fans are getting really pissed off at the players, I was always neutral in these proceedings, but it is so clear the owners will not do business without a cap.
Starting a new league would just take too much time to become popular, especially in the US. Players, just get to the table and make the best deal you can. Your the ones losing paychecks and playing for peanuts in Europe and for what principal?

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01-24-2005, 10:08 AM
  #24
BLONG7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
I just cant believe the players arent at the table bargaining table. What universe are they on that they believe the owners will capitulate. Are the players really going to kill the cow that gives them milk over principal. If any players read this, wake up and smell the coffee, this is your time to get your best deal, so accept the salary cap and make your best deal.

We as fans are getting really pissed off at the players, I was always neutral in these proceedings, but it is so clear the owners will not do business without a cap.
Starting a new league would just take too much time to become popular, especially in the US. Players, just get to the table and make the best deal you can. Your the ones losing paychecks and playing for peanuts in Europe and for what principal?
The owners have always backed down before...always... this time Bob Goodenow has made a huge mis-judgement which will eventually lead to his demise...

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