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Trades with 20/20 (Fuhr, Zhitnik, Boucher)

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08-28-2012, 04:05 PM
  #1
kingsfan
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Trades with 20/20 (Fuhr, Zhitnik, Boucher)

Since it's about as boring as watching paint dry around here, thought I'd try and stir up a little debate.

I was thinking, if people are interested, in picking some random trades from our past and, now that all the players have either retired or played the vast majority of their career out, have a review on the trades and see how we all think the Kings made out. I'll try to post about only trades which maybe were deemed fair at the time, or at least looked not downright brutal in hindsight.

Rules of the discussion!

For sake of argument, let's look only at the players involved themselves, not at what they were later traded for. Future trades are independent of the actual trade itself and, unless it was a three way type of deal, did not factor into the trade directly. Only future contributions of the players involved should be given value.

Today's trade is...

1995-Feb-14: To the Los Angeles Kings: Grant Fuhr, Philippe Boucher and Denis Tsygurov

To the Buffalo Sabres: Charlie Huddy, Robb Stauber, Alexei Zhitnik and round 5 pick in the 1995 draft (believed to be Marian Menhart).

Here are players links for statistical comparision:
Grant Fuhr: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=1794
Phillippe Boucher: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=501
Denis Tsygurov: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=10162
Charlie Huddy: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=2397
Robb Stauber: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=5158
Alexei Zhitnik: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=5861
Marian Menhart: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=28783

My own personal thoughts: I didn't care for the deal at the time, and I think it was just a means to try and recapture the glory days of the Oilers through Fuhr. I hated the fact it cost us one of the three great young D-men we had at the time (Sydor and Blake were the other two). On the flip side, Boucher turned out to be much better than we imagined, it just took a lot longer for that to come to reality than we had hoped. While the Kings directly didn't see nearly the same benefits of this that the Sabres did, it wasn't a completely brutal deal in terms of how the players future careers went. Boucher turned out to be a solid defenseman, while Zhitnik was the only piece worth much of anything to Buffalo. Fuhr, as bad as he was in LA, went on to have a great few seasons in St. Louis, while Stauber played just six more NHL games.

Essentially, this deals boils down to Zhitnik and Huddy for Boucher and Fuhr. Edge definately goes to Buffalo, but based on what Fuhr would go on to do after LA, it wasn't completely out of wack value wise. What makes this trade so bad for LA is that Boucher floundered for a long time in our system before he finally emerged, only to bolt to Dallas, while Fuhr took the season off, then found himself again in St. Louis under Keenan.

Fuhr and Boucher were both still very good players, just little of that was ever realized in LA. Zhitnik meanwhile was a staple of the Sabres blueline for a decade.

Overall: Slight nod to Buffalo.

From just a Kings standpoint: Buffalo wins by a landslide.


Last edited by kingsfan: 08-29-2012 at 12:10 AM.
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Old
08-28-2012, 05:27 PM
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Holden Caulfield
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The 5th Rounder appears to be this guy Marian Menhart. He was selected by Buffalo in the Kings slot in the 5th round.

Mikka Kiprusoff was selected just 5 picks later, as well as Chris Mason, Jan Hrdina and Brent Johnson later on in the 5th round.

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08-28-2012, 05:37 PM
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Basilisk
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Please don't! This was one of the trades that forced me away from fandom until about 1999-2000........

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08-28-2012, 09:18 PM
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riseandfall9
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The Ziggy Palffy Trade.

If we didnt trade for Ziggy Palffy, Pavol Demitra wouldnt have came to LA.

If Pavol Demitra didnt come to LA and didnt get Hurt and the Kings miss the playoffs.

Then Dave Taylor would have never gotten fired.

If Dave Taylor never got fired.

Then Dean Lombardi would never have been hired or hired by the Ducks.

If Dean Lombardi didnt get hired by the Kings.

WE MAY NEVER HAVE A CUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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08-28-2012, 10:38 PM
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etherialone
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One of the worst trades in Kings history. Huddy was dead solid still as a 3rd pairing vet, Zhitnik was becoming a talented 2nd pairing stay at home hard hitting mama jamma and on and on.

Fuhrs coke problem was pretty widely known or at least suspected with very strong opinions as well as the fact that he flat out said he didn't want to play for us or come to L.A. made obvious by his exceptionally terrible play in L.A. and his rediscovery of his skills the moment he left.

All and all a trude disaster.

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08-28-2012, 11:32 PM
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Sybil227
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I miss summers spent watching the paint dry.
Yep.
Roundin' up the chickens and geese, and whatever other livestock wasn't doin' nothin', finding a nice soft spot in the dirt and just starin' at the side of the barn for 6 hours. Man, those were the days.

If we were feelin' wild we'd paint it a light red instead of dark. Now most of our neighbors would disapprove of us for doin' that. Call us heathen and such. But we paid no nevermind - bein' the wild & crazy folk we were.

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08-29-2012, 02:19 PM
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TruKingFan
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Maybe you'all should go out a little more instead of discussing things like these. Should be nice out in Manitoba this time of year, eh?

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08-29-2012, 02:24 PM
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Johnny Utah
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The problem with that deal was the Kings being cheap and not re-signing Boucher when he emerged as a legit top 4 D man. I remember Leiweke admittig the mistake on a Kings talk. This is during the time when they tried to pawn Erik Rasmussen off as a top 6. Kings were cheapin out all over the place. Even Scheidner and Smolinski spoke up about the Kings trying to get a top 6 winger instead of forcing young kids like Cammy or Frolov into that spot.

I thought if the Kings had kept Boucher for longer the deal wasn't that bad as Phillippe played way past his prime, same with Zhitnik.

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08-29-2012, 02:29 PM
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drugold
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I noticed as I was internet stat warrior'ing that Zhitnik had 52 pim in the 98/99 playoffs. Anyone remember what happened?

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08-29-2012, 03:16 PM
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DryIslandBartender
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Kings had an opportunity to be a really good defensive team, it sickens me that we traded away Blake, Sydor, Zhitnik in a span of 5 years. We could have had a top 4 pairing of Blake, Sydor, Zhitnik and Norstrom FOR YEARS. Possibly could have helped Jamie Storr develop into a better goaltender.

But like Johnny Utah said, Kings were cheaping out. It was a dark time, team was mired in a financial disaster that McNall left behind in his wake and had a buffoon in McMaster. It was a missed opportunity to seize on the momentum from the 93' Finals run.

Just goes to show how much of a difference a first class owner makes. AEG had really rebuilt the franchise from the ground up, changed the business model, new infrastructures, and changed up the hockey side of things. Did Leiweke mess up, sure but he learned from it and hired Dean to build the franchise into what it is today.


Back to the subject at hand, when you evaluate the trades in the mid-90s...you have to keep in mind that the Kings franchise was in serious financial trouble. They had to dump salary and everyone in the NHL knew it.

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08-29-2012, 03:30 PM
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KINGS17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riseandfall9 View Post
The Ziggy Palffy Trade.

If we didnt trade for Ziggy Palffy, Pavol Demitra wouldnt have came to LA.

If Pavol Demitra didnt come to LA and didnt get Hurt and the Kings miss the playoffs.

Then Dave Taylor would have never gotten fired.

If Dave Taylor never got fired.

Then Dean Lombardi would never have been hired or hired by the Ducks.

If Dean Lombardi didnt get hired by the Kings.

WE MAY NEVER HAVE A CUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like this young man's logic!

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08-30-2012, 09:25 AM
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kingsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruKingFan View Post
Maybe you'all should go out a little more instead of discussing things like these. Should be nice out in Manitoba this time of year, eh?
Was 28 Celcius here today. Had a tornado warning, which was odd. Holden down in Winnipeg had something like 35 Celcius and apparently a runaway turtle. No joke. Was on the news last night. Not really sure how a turtle outruns you anyways. If that's not a clue you need to hit the gym, nothing is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Back to the subject at hand, when you evaluate the trades in the mid-90s...you have to keep in mind that the Kings franchise was in serious financial trouble. They had to dump salary and everyone in the NHL knew it.
The Kings actually added salary in this trade, with Fuhr alone making more than Zhitnik, Huddy and Stauber combined.

In 1994-1995 the players salaries broke down as follows:

Grant Fuhr: $1,009,200
Philippe Boucher: $130,500
Denis Tsygurov: $232,500

Total: $1,372,200

Robb Stauber: $304,500
Charlier Huddy: $319,000
Alexei Zhitnik: $261,000

Total: $884,500

Difference: $487,700

The Kings added nearly half a million dollars in this trade for that season. And since Stauber's contract was up after that season while Huddy's was up one year later, it can't even be argued as a future salary dump either. To put it in perspective, there was only eight players on the Kings roster making more than $487,700 that season. It'd be like use today making a trade and taking on an additional $3.4 million in salary. Not to liokely if you have to dump salary.

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08-31-2012, 06:42 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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The Kings weren't a very well managed team under Wayne Gretzky. And what makes the Fuhr trade even more pointless was that Kelly Hrudey was playing unbelievably well and posting great individual numbers despite not getting much defensive support. Of course the Disaster McMaster would follow his close pals advice (Gretzky got McMaster hired by the way), and make the Kings a weaker squad on the back-end just to bring in a washed up and out of shape Grant Fuhr, who put on the worst performances in net coupled with Dan Cloutier and Jason LaBarbera.

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