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Prospect Thread - Part XI

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11-02-2012, 12:00 AM
  #951
Shareefruck
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Originally Posted by StrictlyCommercial View Post
I don't get why people are arguing with MS on this. He's 100% right.

There are 30 #1 defensemen in the NHL by simple reasoning. (30 teams= 30 #1 spots available)
There are 30 #2 defensemen
etc

People are using the term #1 incorrectly when they really mean 'Franchise' (Weber) or 'Star' (Doughty) or 'Generational talent' (Lidstrom).

I don't see how this is hard to grasp/define.
But when someone says they want a #1, it's also symantecally fair to assume that they want one who meets the standards of an "average" #1. In other words, 15 defenseman satisfy that requirement, and 45 satisfy the #2+ requirement.

If you said that you wanted a burger, it wouldn't make sense to expect you to be satisfied with the WORST thing that could qualify as a burger. You want something that tastes just like an average burger.

It's the same way in law-- what's expected as the standard is more important and definitive than what technically barely qualifies. You couldn't get away with providing a *****y, nearly broken washing machine and going "Look your honor, the contract just said washing machine, it didn't say it had to be a particularly GOOD washing machine."

It's so hard to grasp because it's way oversimplified and not totally correct, IMO.


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Old
11-02-2012, 02:14 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
But when someone says they want a #1, it's also symantecally fair to assume that they want one who meets the standards of an "average" #1. In other words, 15 defenseman satisfy that requirement, and 45 satisfy the #2+ requirement.

If you said that you wanted a burger, it wouldn't make sense to expect you to be satisfied with the WORST thing that could qualify as a burger. You want something that tastes just like an average burger.

It's the same way in law-- what's expected as the standard is more important and definitive than what technically barely qualifies. You couldn't get away with providing a *****y, nearly broken washing machine and going "Look your honor, the contract just said washing machine, it didn't say it had to be a particularly GOOD washing machine."

It's so hard to grasp because it's way oversimplified and not totally correct, IMO.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...top+defenseman

I'd call any of the top 30 a #1 defenseman. If people just want a Weber/Chara, they want a franchise defenseman. If you ask for a #1 and get Jack Johnson, instead of the average of OEL, you better be damn happy anyways. It's not oversimplified, its simple.

The fact people still want a franchise defeneman when we have two top 30 d-men + the #35 d-man + the #47 D-man on that list speaks to the ridiculous expectations of fans. As does the idea that the best 30 defensemen in the NHL aren't #1 defensemen (although that list wouldn't be my list as some guys are ridiculously placed (McDonagh IMO).

I blame Gary Bettman for this argument.****ing lockout.

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11-02-2012, 02:41 AM
  #953
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You guys are going around in circles arguing semantics.

Some people want to strengthen our defensive corp with stronger players. I get it.

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11-02-2012, 02:41 AM
  #954
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Apparently SMYL, Gilman and Nonis + Burke were at the Marlies/Heat game. Wonder what they were up to?

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11-02-2012, 02:55 AM
  #955
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pretty bleak. Not a lot of guys meeting expectations let alone exceeding them (Cannata, Corrado, Jensen, Tommernes, Price), only a few more hanging around passable. Let's hope the rest pick it up a bit.
Yeah, but that list left off our surest can't miss prospect. I heard this kid, Hansen, is averaging 3 pts/game in Finland

It's going to sound like i'm making excuses for guys here but I think we should remember that a lot of our prospects are in their first year playing at new levels. In the case of our NCAA guys 1/2 of them are freshman, can't expect much offensively out of them at the very start of their careers. Labate is still a teenager, and a Sophomore, in a league full of 22-24 year olds.

Look at our AHL guys, they're mostly guys who aren't expected to be high end offensive guys as pro's ever, never mind guys like Friesen and Mallet who're rookies, and the AHL is a tougher league than it's probably ever been before. I'm more interested in how they're playing than their stat line.

Just to continue with the excuses:
Blomstrand has no points in 11 "games played" but hasn't seen even 1 second of ice time in a bunch of them because the Allsvenskan has someithing called "extra player", I don't know if that's a guy who's dressed and on the bench but can only play in case of injury (my guess) but I do know that 'extra player' never seems to register any stats (including pm's, shots, plus or minus, or a faceoff). Hard to impress statistically from the bench. (Really wish they had pushed for this guy to come to the whl/chl)

McEneny is coming off an entire missed season, Gaunce wasn't drafted for his ability to dominate offensively and uh...well **** that's about where my excuses run out. (Every GM in the league has passed on Lipon twice).

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Old
11-02-2012, 10:32 AM
  #956
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Anyone know anything about undrafted AIK player (on Jensen's team) Mattias Janmark-Nylen? Same age and similar stats to Jensen this season. Played 18 SEL games last year with no points.

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Old
11-02-2012, 08:32 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrictlyCommercial View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...top+defenseman

I'd call any of the top 30 a #1 defenseman. If people just want a Weber/Chara, they want a franchise defenseman. If you ask for a #1 and get Jack Johnson, instead of the average of OEL, you better be damn happy anyways. It's not oversimplified, its simple.

The fact people still want a franchise defeneman when we have two top 30 d-men + the #35 d-man + the #47 D-man on that list speaks to the ridiculous expectations of fans. As does the idea that the best 30 defensemen in the NHL aren't #1 defensemen (although that list wouldn't be my list as some guys are ridiculously placed (McDonagh IMO).

I blame Gary Bettman for this argument.****ing lockout.
Clearly I'm not arguing that anything less than Chara or Weber isn't a #1 defenseman.

Tell me what is wrong with my argument. I told you what I feel is wrong with yours.

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11-02-2012, 08:46 PM
  #958
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Anyone know what is up with Gaunce? That's 3 games missed in a row

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11-02-2012, 08:48 PM
  #959
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Anyone know what is up with Gaunce? That's 3 games missed in a row

Suffered a mild Shoulder separation. Is out for a couple of weeks I think.

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11-02-2012, 09:02 PM
  #960
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Another point for Corrado. Tied with Hamilton.

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Old
11-03-2012, 12:46 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
Apparently SMYL, Gilman and Nonis + Burke were at the Marlies/Heat game. Wonder what they were up to?
Scouting most likely. Toronto is a team that's in for Luongo, and the Marlies are in the Canucks' backyard, so why not make the short trip out to see how Kadri/Colbourne etc play?

Wouldn't be doing their jobs otherwise.

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11-03-2012, 01:01 AM
  #962
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Another point for Corrado. Tied with Hamilton.
Wow Corrado has point on 17/49 Sudbary goals... o_O

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Old
11-03-2012, 01:25 PM
  #963
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Jensen looks awesome! leading his team in goals so far. I'm sure you all know this already, but I'm posting it anyways . Pretty slick shootout goal.



Last edited by Moore Money: 11-03-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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Old
11-03-2012, 03:45 PM
  #964
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Late in the second, Kalamazoo is down 5-2 to Fort Wayne. Darren Archibald has one of the Wings' goals, on the power play (5 goals and four assists in his tenth game). He's also had a fight (for those who have an interest in such things), against 32-year-old Brent Henley, listed at 6'7", 250.

Prab Rai hasn't been in the K-Wings lineup for several games now. Does anyone know why?

Cannata is in goal for Kalamazoo.

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Old
11-03-2012, 11:23 PM
  #965
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Saw the thread on the Prospect board, but can anyone tell me more about William Carrier for this upcoming draft?


28 points in 18 games playing in the QMJHL


Listed as a 6 ft, 195lbs "power winger". Also said to have a good hockey IQ and is expected to go late in the 1st round, early 2nd round. He could be a pick within the Canucks' range.

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Old
11-04-2012, 12:10 AM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Saw the thread on the Prospect board, but can anyone tell me more about William Carrier for this upcoming draft?


28 points in 18 games playing in the QMJHL


Listed as a 6 ft, 195lbs "power winger". Also said to have a good hockey IQ and is expected to go late in the 1st round, early 2nd round. He could be a pick within the Canucks' range.
All I know is that if you're playing NHL 12 be a gm still, pick this kid, he always ends up as a solid 6'2 205lb 87 overall twf centerman. Stud.



As for real life, I know that he's being really underrated as a winger in the Q so far, with all the Erne/Mantha-love going on.

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11-04-2012, 01:27 AM
  #967
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Originally Posted by Hansen 36 View Post
All I know is that if you're playing NHL 12 be a gm still, pick this kid, he always ends up as a solid 6'2 205lb 87 overall twf centerman. Stud.



As for real life, I know that he's being really underrated as a winger in the Q so far, with all the Erne/Mantha-love going on.
Yeah, the Q is going to have at least 5 or 6 first-round forwards in Mack, Drouin, Erne, Mantha, Gauthier, and Carrier. Ridiculous year for them.

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11-04-2012, 05:23 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Saw the thread on the Prospect board, but can anyone tell me more about William Carrier for this upcoming draft?


28 points in 18 games playing in the QMJHL


Listed as a 6 ft, 195lbs "power winger". Also said to have a good hockey IQ and is expected to go late in the 1st round, early 2nd round. He could be a pick within the Canucks' range.
I don't like the sound of a 6ft power winger. That usually doesn't work out so well in the NHL, ask Gilbert Brule.

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Old
11-04-2012, 05:35 PM
  #969
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I don't like the sound of a 6ft power winger. That usually doesn't work out so well in the NHL, ask Gilbert Brule.
Brule is like 5'10", on a good day. Carrier is 6'0" at the very least, possibly taller and is above 200lbs. Carrier is blowing his stats out of the water too. From everything I've seen and heard, if he goes anywhere near our pick it would be a major steal.

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11-04-2012, 05:41 PM
  #970
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Brule is like 5'10", on a good day. Carrier is 6'0" at the very least, possibly taller and is above 200lbs. Carrier is blowing his stats out of the water too. From everything I've seen and heard, if he goes anywhere near our pick it would be a major steal.
Not to mention the old Blue Jackets management team totally **** Brule's development.

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11-04-2012, 09:06 PM
  #971
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Brule is like 5'10", on a good day. Carrier is 6'0" at the very least, possibly taller and is above 200lbs. Carrier is blowing his stats out of the water too. From everything I've seen and heard, if he goes anywhere near our pick it would be a major steal.
well, if there's a full lockout, who knows where we pick.

Maybe Bettman feels bad for us after losing in the finals, and trashing our city.

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11-04-2012, 09:36 PM
  #972
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You're right on that one. ^

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Old
11-05-2012, 05:42 PM
  #973
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Not to mention the old Blue Jackets management team totally **** Brule's development.
Either that or he just wasn't very good, like all the other top ten picks that sucked.

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11-05-2012, 06:53 PM
  #974
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Either that or he just wasn't very good, like all the other top ten picks that sucked.
Hard to say that if you watched him in the W. He really did absolutely everything and has always left his heart out there. I still hope he winds up as a depth guy here because he's at worst Matt Cooke without the dirt but with the grit and a better shot.

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11-05-2012, 06:58 PM
  #975
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Hard to say that if you watched him in the W. He really did absolutely everything and has always left his heart out there. I still hope he winds up as a depth guy here because he's at worst Matt Cooke without the dirt but with the grit and a better shot.
I think it's a combination of both. He played a style in the WHL that wasn't likely to be sustainable as a pro, but he also was totally dicked around by CBJ, and that likely didn't do much for the confidence issues that had been tagged onto him for a long time.

He was obviously not going to succeed as a physically intimidating powerforward in pro hockey at 5'10", and what he really needed was a big chunk of no-pressure time in the AHL to learn how to apply his skill more effectively and adapt his game.

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