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Cap Circumventing Deals Revisited

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04-11-2013, 04:01 PM
  #1
RedWingsNow*
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Cap Circumventing Deals Revisited

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Come around 2018-19 or so, the Red Wings are going to have a season or two where they lose about $8 to $9M in cap room as penalties from the cap circumvention deals signed by Zetterberg, Franzen and, to a lesser extent, Kronwall.

Since cap penalties follow the team that signed the original deal, the only way out of it is if the players actually play the full term of their contract.

Back in 2009, Ken Holland was called a genius for his contracts to Zetterberg and Franzen.
The lower cap hits were supposed to help Holland attract more stars and keep more of their great players under contacts.

But the truth is, we haven't won a thing since then. We've not been able to keep our players. Nor have we been able to attract stars.

We've had extra cap hit for two straight years and nothing to spend it on.

And thanks to the CBA (The NHL warned GMs it was going to fix these contracts), the Wings will pay a hefty price for these deals at the end of the decade.

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04-11-2013, 04:08 PM
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DatsyukToZetterberg
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I thought it was only if the player retired early that there was a cap penalty?

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04-11-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
I thought it was only if the player retired early that there was a cap penalty?
Do you think Zetterberg is going to play for $1M a year?

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04-11-2013, 04:19 PM
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detredWINgs
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Do you think Zetterberg is going to play for $1M a year?
Who cares if Zetterberg is going to play for $1M a year?

The more important question is, do you think Zetterberg at 39/40 will be worth $1M a year?

We're screwed either way. If Hank and Franzen DO play out their contracts, we're still going to be paying a collective $10M for players who are likely to be as effective as Mike Modano and Dan Cleary in their dog days.

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04-11-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Who cares if Zetterberg is going to play for $1M a year?

The more important question is, do you think Zetterberg at 39/40 will be worth $1M a year?

We're screwed either way. If Hank and Franzen DO play out their contracts, we're still going to be paying a collective $10M for players who are likely to be as effective as Mike Modano and Dan Cleary in their dog days.
That too

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04-11-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Do you think Zetterberg is going to play for $1M a year?
I think when he took the role of Captain he understood that he is expected to play out his full contract. Personally from what I've seen and heard of Zetterberg he's a character guy and he wouldn't put the Wings in that type of situation. I think the closest we'll see to him not playing it out is doing the Pronger and going on LTIR for the last year(s). But I think we will see him play it out because he has to much pride not to, if Alfredsson can play it out so can Zetterberg.

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04-11-2013, 04:23 PM
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The sad thing is, we really only saved, at most, $3M - which is what we're paying to employ Samuelsson now.

(Zetterberg's prime salary is $7.5M, Franzen's prime salary is between $5M and $5.5M)

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04-11-2013, 04:26 PM
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Well, in Holland's defence, the last two lockouts were basically made to **** block him and the few other GMs in his position (rich teams that are typically dominant and attract stars from poor team). But yeah, you're right.

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04-11-2013, 04:50 PM
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Are you sure that there is a cap penalty if Zetterberg or Franzen retire before the end of their deals? Bob McKenzie claimed Toronto was keen on Kiprusoff partly because he would not count against the cap next season if he retires. Contracts signed after a players 35th birthday definitely count against the cap no matter what (unless they're bought out)- the Wings don't have a long term 35+ deal on the books though. Bertuzzi and Samuelsson are 35+ and signed for next year of course- but thats just one more season, and they're both prime candidates if the Wings decide to use a buyout.

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04-11-2013, 04:52 PM
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There is no penalty if they play out their contract.

They will just end up being LTIR'd like Pronger.

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04-11-2013, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
There is no penalty if they play out their contract.

They will just end up being LTIR'd like Pronger.
This.

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04-11-2013, 04:58 PM
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detredWINgs
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There is no penalty if they play out their contract.

They will just end up being LTIR'd like Pronger.
If they're injured.

For some reason, everyone seems to be forgetting the completely plausible scenario where they're not injured and haven't retired.

Quiz time! What is this line?
Cleary(1) - Zetterberg(6) - Franzen (3.9)

If you answered "our 1st line during the 2009 playoffs" you would be incorrect. It is in fact our future 4th line in 2019.

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04-11-2013, 04:59 PM
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If they're injured.

For some reason, everyone seems to be forgetting the completely plausible scenario where they're not injured and haven't retired.
They will come down with something. I am going to go with a concussion. No way to prove they are faking it.

You think lazy garbage like Franzen will play for almost nothing?

Zetterberg will be a team player and do the same thing if he isn't productive and the Wings need the money.

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04-11-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
There is no penalty if they play out their contract.

They will just end up being LTIR'd like Pronger.
This is the loophole they cannot fix. Not many guys that are 35+ can pass a true physical or third party physical. Simply put if Zetterberg doesn't want to play for 1 million he is loyal enough however to sit at home and collect that money on LTIR with a career ending back issue. Flunks physical problem solved. This also doesn't take into account whatever the cap actually is by the time these role around. Seems awfully premature to be worried about this, something to think about, but not something I am overly worried about.

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04-11-2013, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
They will come down with something. I am going to go with a concussion. No way to prove they are faking it.

You think lazy garbage like Franzen will play for almost nothing?

Zetterberg will be a team player and do the same thing if he isn't productive and the Wings need the money.
I love how in sports ~$1M-$2M is "almost nothing", but it is true.

I'm only making a million and a half dollars this year, pfffft, forget playing hockey for 3/4 of the year!

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04-11-2013, 05:07 PM
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I like how people are making guesses as to the demeanor of a player in regards to how much they are willing to play for.

Apparently Franzen floating at points during games means he has no spirit for the game and will bolt as soon as the money drops. This board has it all figured out.

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04-11-2013, 05:09 PM
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I like how people are making guesses as to the demeanor of a player in regards to how much they are willing to play for.

Apparently Franzen floating at points during games means he has no spirit for the game and will bolt as soon as the money drops. This board has it all figured out.
You really think management can't convince them to help the team out by being paid to sit at home and do nothing when they more than likely will be completely useless at that point in their careers?

To be fair, Franzen stopped showing up as soon as he got paid. He can spend more time driving his Dodge Ram instead of floating on the ice.

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04-11-2013, 05:15 PM
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Sure, but I'm not going to assume they are heartless and won't be willing to play just because their 7 figure salary went down to a smaller 7 figures. Especially when if Zetterberg "retires" it will apparently be because of his loyalty to the team.

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04-11-2013, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Do you think Zetterberg is going to play for $1M a year?
Maybe he will make bad financial decisions and really need the 1M! lol lol

But seriously, LTIR is likely.

Mostly because of the penalty.

The penalty will mean someone else (young) on the team will lose their job. Z wont want to do this.

He will be "injured" for a year. (won't be hard to sell it... all old players are really injured) and then
he retires later.

The question is can detroit even discuss this with them without being sued by the league??

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04-11-2013, 05:23 PM
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The question is can detroit even discuss this with them without being sued by the league??
I think the real problem is going to be with the NHLPA when this starts happening. There will be a couple guys that don't want this to happen but the team doctor will fail them for something that really could have been failed all along. There are very few NHL players beyond 35 that can pass a true physical. For instance the Red Wings could probably do this whether or not Bertuzzi wants it to happen next year. They just flunk him and put him on LTIR. He has nerve damage symptoms, end of discussion. He has admitted as much publicly, but they can still clear him because he wants to, I think some teams will in the future use this stuff.

Say Chris Pronger actually gets rid of most of his concussion symptoms at least to pass in two years. He is out of Philly's plans, they just go back to the lost vision in his eyes. This stuff is easier than you think, these guys bodies take tremendous punishment over the years. You can find something that is just not advisable to play with. Yzerman would have failed a true physical probably clear back to the mid-90's in terms of getting out of the contract if they choose that route.

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04-11-2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
I like how people are making guesses as to the demeanor of a player in regards to how much they are willing to play for.

Apparently Franzen floating at points during games means he has no spirit for the game and will bolt as soon as the money drops. This board has it all figured out.
The contracts were structure the way they were for a reason -- with every intention that the player would leave when his salary sunk like a stone

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04-11-2013, 05:25 PM
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What is the projected cap by 2018-2019? It may be a moot point. Besides, if necessary there will always be a bottom feeder needing to meet the cap floor.

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04-11-2013, 05:27 PM
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What is the projected cap by 2018-2019? It may be a moot point. Besides, if necessary there will always be a bottom feeder needing to meet the cap floor.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle7029575/

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04-11-2013, 05:40 PM
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The contracts were structure the way they were for a reason -- with every intention that the player would leave when his salary sunk like a stone
But my issue is how two players with similar types of deals will in the future have two different reasons behind "retiring". Especially when we are still years away from that even occuring.

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04-11-2013, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Do you think Zetterberg is going to play for $1M a year?
What is Daniel Alfredsson doing right now?

What did Steve Yzerman do at his last season?

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