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Old
10-28-2012, 10:45 PM
  #651
sarcastro
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Yeah sure, this is a great time to get Kelly his first at bat in a month.

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10-28-2012, 10:53 PM
  #652
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What a miserable bunch.

Best pitcher on the planet
Triple Crown winner.

4-0 sweep.

I will definitely pass on season tickets next year.

Just get rid of Delmon and Leyland and this failure will be worth it.

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10-28-2012, 10:56 PM
  #653
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I don't get why we kept swinging at Romo's slider. Its the same pitch every time yet Jackson couldn't lay off 3 times. And batting Kelly blows my mind.

It was an awesome season but it sucks to end so abruptly and poorly.

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10-28-2012, 10:59 PM
  #654
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Tough way for it to end. Not looking forward to watching what happens now. Tons of guys up for arbitration. Figure Martinez coming back makes them more potent. But learned my lesson in 06 to temper expectations. I hope they get another shot soon, really sad to see it end like that. Ilitch probably won't be around to see his title making it that much worse.

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10-28-2012, 11:04 PM
  #655
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It would've been so sweet to watch the Tigers celebrate like the Giants are right now.

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Old
10-28-2012, 11:04 PM
  #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
I don't get why we kept swinging at Romo's slider. Its the same pitch every time yet Jackson couldn't lay off 3 times. And batting Kelly blows my mind.

It was an awesome season but it sucks to end so abruptly and poorly.
Meh, they regained their early season form at the worst possible time.

In reality, they were lucky to even get this far, but the lack of offense, good pitching for the most part, just stings. That, and I basically live in the southern end of Giants fandom, and being just about the only Tigers/Wings around here sucks (although I follow the Giants AAA team, and don't mind the Giants, but if the Tigers at least showed some O, I could handle the loss better).

But the Giants were just better all around, top, bottom, sideways.

And Fielder was absolutely horrid.

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10-28-2012, 11:08 PM
  #657
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Meh, they regained their early season form at the worst possible time.

In reality, they were lucky to even get this far, but the lack of offense, good pitching for the most part, just stings. That, and I basically live in the southern end of Giants fandom, and being just about the only Tigers/Wings around here sucks (although I follow the Giants AAA team, and don't mind the Giants, but if the Tigers at least showed some O, I could handle the loss better).

But the Giants were just better all around, top, bottom, sideways.

And Fielder was absolutely horrid.
Yeah but I hope Prince doesn't become too big of a scapegoat. He's obviously deserving of criticism but the entire team batted under .200.

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10-28-2012, 11:10 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Yeah but I hope Prince doesn't become too big of a scapegoat. He's obviously deserving of criticism but the entire team batted under .200.
True to a point, but he was pretty much good for a K, a groundout, or a DP. Miggy at least got a HR tonight, not that that makes up all the rest, Price did diddly.

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10-29-2012, 01:18 AM
  #659
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Originally Posted by guinness View Post
Meh, they regained their early season form at the worst possible time.

In reality, they were lucky to even get this far, but the lack of offense, good pitching for the most part, just stings. That, and I basically live in the southern end of Giants fandom, and being just about the only Tigers/Wings around here sucks (although I follow the Giants AAA team, and don't mind the Giants, but if the Tigers at least showed some O, I could handle the loss better).

But the Giants were just better all around, top, bottom, sideways.

And Fielder was absolutely horrid.
Hey man, I live in Giants country too. I feel your pain.

Whatever, it's over. It's a shame it had to end this way (sweep, in our ballpark no less... groan), but it is what it is I suppose. Bats went cold, better team won, Leyland's a dinosaur, yada yada yada... I got a million cliches here, guys. A MILLION.

Welp, back to the Leos, I guess (who, actually looked like a semi-competent NFL team today; do I dare to believe in this sad group of misfits once again?). As for the Tigers? There's always next year. If nothing else, it'll be good to have Martinez back.

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Old
10-29-2012, 07:25 AM
  #660
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Well, looks more and more like the Wings' 2008 Cup will remain Detroit's last championship for what could be a loong time.

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Old
10-29-2012, 01:48 PM
  #661
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well, that sucked. Not sure what there is to say about this team now. I figure the same moves that would have been made if we had won will be made with us losing, so there's that. Look forward to next year and another shot at it.

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Old
10-29-2012, 05:28 PM
  #662
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Valverde and Young are obviously gone, but I wonder what will happen with Sanchez. There didn't seem to be anyone who thought we'd keep him beyond this year when we first acquired him, and we do have a good-looking rotation without him (JV-Scherzer-Fister-Porcello-Smyly), but I've been hearing murmurs that the Tigers really want to hang on to him. I still don't think it will happen, since he'll probably be able to get more money elsewhere, but it's an interesting thought. We'd probably have the best rotation in the AL if he came back.

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10-29-2012, 06:56 PM
  #663
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Valverde and Young are obviously gone, but I wonder what will happen with Sanchez. There didn't seem to be anyone who thought we'd keep him beyond this year when we first acquired him, and we do have a good-looking rotation without him (JV-Scherzer-Fister-Porcello-Smyly), but I've been hearing murmurs that the Tigers really want to hang on to him. I still don't think it will happen, since he'll probably be able to get more money elsewhere, but it's an interesting thought. We'd probably have the best rotation in the AL if he came back.
I'd be in favor of bringing back Sanchez if at all possible and then dumping Porcello for whatever they can get for him. The defense isn't going to be good enough to make Porcello an average starter in the near future, so they might as well get what they can for him now.

Problem is, I think Sanchez will get some huge offers. CJ Wilson+ offers. And the Tigers can't go that far on him. $10-12 mil a year, sure. $15+, no.

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Old
10-29-2012, 09:07 PM
  #664
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I'd be in favor of bringing back Sanchez if at all possible and then dumping Porcello for whatever they can get for him. The defense isn't going to be good enough to make Porcello an average starter in the near future, so they might as well get what they can for him now.

Problem is, I think Sanchez will get some huge offers. CJ Wilson+ offers. And the Tigers can't go that far on him. $10-12 mil a year, sure. $15+, no.
Yeah, those are my thoughts. I'd give it about a 10-20% chance the Tigers sign him.

A more pressing need is corner outfield. Current options for our two spots are Dirks, Berry, Garcia, Kelly, Boesch, and Raburn. Yikes. I see a promising rookie who might be good enough to start next season, 3 solid bench players, and 2 bench/minor league players. I really hope the Tigers aren't content with getting two starters out of that group.

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10-29-2012, 10:04 PM
  #665
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Yeah, I'm expecting $15+ million a year for Sanchez after the run he went on with us. If he signs with us, I'll be surprised.

I'm not sure what we'll see in other moves, though. I think it's safe to say that Young, Raburn, and Valverde are gone. Inge will be off the books. But a lot of the money freed up will go to arby guys, so it's not like we'll be rolling in dough to spend.

At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised to see some other moves made. Peralta didn't give us much of anything at the plate, but he still has a bit of value. Would we be hurt by picking up his option, then dealing him somewhere, and then going with more D/less O in Danny Worth? I really couldn't say.

And there is always the option of dealing Biggy, or one of Miggy/Verlander if they make it clear they won't re-sign for anything less than the moon, stars and a controlling interest in Neptune. I don't imagine we'll see such a move actually made, but it's not impossible.

So I don't know. I'm sort of looking forward to this offseason, sort of not. They might pull off a significant move, but I'm not sure it's a move I'd like seeing. Though we're most likely to make a few smaller moves and mainly return the same group, for better and worse.

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10-29-2012, 10:08 PM
  #666
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Yeah, those are my thoughts. I'd give it about a 10-20% chance the Tigers sign him.

A more pressing need is corner outfield. Current options for our two spots are Dirks, Berry, Garcia, Kelly, Boesch, and Raburn. Yikes. I see a promising rookie who might be good enough to start next season, 3 solid bench players, and 2 bench/minor league players. I really hope the Tigers aren't content with getting two starters out of that group.
Unless they can get someone usable for Porcello, I don't think they have much choice on that front.

I don't think they will be bringing in Hamilton, and the other free agent OFs that could be decent are Melky Cabrera (post-roids, probably going to regress badly), Ryan Ludwick (meh), Cody Ross (sounds like he's going to stay in Boston), Shane Victorino (probably going to get wildly overpaid), Swisher (no), and maybe Ichiro (probably staying in NY or headed back to Seattle).

I don't think there are a lot of palatable alternatives out there. And really, you can make it through the season with Dirks and Garcia and then make a move at the deadline if they show they need an upgrade. I'm ok with that - it would give them a good outfield defense, at least, to help make up for the infield.

Possible lineup if they let Young go and don't make an addition:

CF Jackson
2B Infante
3B Miggy
1B Fielder
DH Martinez
LF Dirks
SS Peralta
C Avila/Laird
RF Garcia

That lineup is good enough to win the division, especially if they can hang onto Sanchez and pick up a decent reliever or two. I do think that getting better bats for the bench would be a great idea. You don't really need infield bats since they won't be pinch hitting for those guys and they can all hit, so you keep Worth and maybe Santiago and then you load up on pinch hit aces for the backup OF spots. Some candidates for those spots:

Ibanez
Thome
Andruw Jones
Gomes
Abreu

Basically anybody that can come in late in a game and run into one, that'd be what I'd be looking for in the spare outfielders. And no Don Kelly, dammit.

Lots of buy-low candidates for the bullpen as well:

Madson
Soria
Capps
Myers
Frankie Rodriguez

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10-29-2012, 10:12 PM
  #667
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Would love to get Ichiro, think of what that would do for the lineup and defense. In any event my guess is the Tigers learned a lesson from the 06 load up. While yes Miggy has worked out it was a couple steps back and then reloading. I expect more of a tinker approach this time.

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10-30-2012, 09:30 AM
  #668
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Leyland and the gang are back for another year.

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10-30-2012, 10:47 AM
  #669
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Uh... why?

I see they also picked up club options on Peralta and Dotel. Eh.

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10-30-2012, 12:56 PM
  #670
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Considering how well he pitched this year, I'm fine with picking up Dotel's option. With Peralta.... well, are there any better options out there?

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10-30-2012, 03:00 PM
  #671
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Considering how well he pitched this year, I'm fine with picking up Dotel's option. With Peralta.... well, are there any better options out there?
I think it depends on his bat. 17 SS played enough games to qualify for the end of year stats, and Peralta's OPS ranked 10th out of those 17. His OBP ranked 12th, and his SLG ranked 11th. If the guy was a better fielder, he could be a middle of the road hitting short stop, but he's too slow despite his decent hands.

I'd at least look at trading him and seeing what we can get. If we can get something decent, I'd roll the dice on moving him and going with Worth and counting on better D on the left side. Depending on what we got back, it could also give us a few extra million to throw around for either another starter, a corner outfielder, or a reliever.

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10-30-2012, 03:20 PM
  #672
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Peralta is a good fielder. He just has zero range. He played well in te post season. I'd sacrifice him though for a SS with range, though.

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10-30-2012, 03:45 PM
  #673
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The only way you don't see Peralta at SS is if they pick up a gold glove type SS. He's serviceable enough and wasn't the root of the problem in the World Series; they just don't know how to play in the WS. Even if they go on to run away with the division next year there would still be an uneasiness going into the playoffs.

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10-30-2012, 06:04 PM
  #674
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Considering how well he pitched this year, I'm fine with picking up Dotel's option. With Peralta.... well, are there any better options out there?
Dotel for $3.5 mil is a relative steal. He did very good work all year and can close in a pinch. He's kind of a flake, as shown in interviews, but what really matters is how he pitches.

Peralta for $6 mil is not really a steal. They don't have much choice, though. Scutaro is going to get overpaid, probably by the Giants. Stephen Drew is not worth the effort. Alex Gonzalez is coming off major knee surgery and is older and slower than Peralta. Jason Bartlett had one good year and is almost certainly done. So their options would be to roll with Peralta or to go with Danny Worth and risk another Adam Everett debacle.

I'm not saying Worth would be as bad as Everett, but I do think that Dombrowski is opposed to making that kind of mistake again and that's why we haven't seen Worth or Santiago get a chance to start.

As far as a miracle trade, like for Andrus (which I've already seen being thrown around on the Tiger blogs), I'm not holding my breath. A deal for Andrus would mean giving up Castellanos and probably Rondon, since he's the only pitcher they have left that would appeal to trade partners in a high-end swap. So then you've gutted what's left of your farm system for two years of Andrus, who does not hit for power and has a sub-.700 OPS.

There is no SS trade coming.

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10-30-2012, 07:27 PM
  #675
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Quote:
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Dotel for $3.5 mil is a relative steal. He did very good work all year and can close in a pinch. He's kind of a flake, as shown in interviews, but what really matters is how he pitches.

Peralta for $6 mil is not really a steal. They don't have much choice, though. Scutaro is going to get overpaid, probably by the Giants. Stephen Drew is not worth the effort. Alex Gonzalez is coming off major knee surgery and is older and slower than Peralta. Jason Bartlett had one good year and is almost certainly done. So their options would be to roll with Peralta or to go with Danny Worth and risk another Adam Everett debacle.

I'm not saying Worth would be as bad as Everett, but I do think that Dombrowski is opposed to making that kind of mistake again and that's why we haven't seen Worth or Santiago get a chance to start.

As far as a miracle trade, like for Andrus (which I've already seen being thrown around on the Tiger blogs), I'm not holding my breath. A deal for Andrus would mean giving up Castellanos and probably Rondon, since he's the only pitcher they have left that would appeal to trade partners in a high-end swap. So then you've gutted what's left of your farm system for two years of Andrus, who does not hit for power and has a sub-.700 OPS.

There is no SS trade coming.
I've also seen us mentioned in the Hamilton talks, which is really the only way I see us being able to make a move for Andrus. If we signed Hamilton, we'd have the bat in our lineup that would allow us to move Fielder. Texas, meanwhile, would need a bat to replace Hamilton. It's fantasy land but the musical chairs works and has a certain logic to it.

I think a more likely big trade is either Verlander or Cabrera if they make it clear they won't re-sign. I figure both will take a bit more than Fielder, but it won't exactly be huge raises for either of them considering what they already make. I don't think we can afford to let either walk for nothing, though, and their value is probably at its peak right now.

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