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Who owns the WHA Jets history?

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Old
09-09-2011, 02:19 PM
  #1
WJG
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Who owns the WHA Jets history?

I'm sure this has come up before, but I'm still trying to figure it out.

Since WHA was in competition with the NHL before they merged together, does the NHL recognize their pre-NHL history in general?

If you go to the career statistics page on the NHL, guys like Ulf Nilsson and Anders Hedberg aren't listed among the franchise scoring leaders for the current Jets, the Jets (1979) or the Coyotes.

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09-09-2011, 02:22 PM
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wpgsilver
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NHL doesn't acknowledge the WHA in anyway to my knowledge. The WHA records are distinct from the NHL records in everyway.

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09-09-2011, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
NHL doesn't acknowledge the WHA in anyway to my knowledge. The WHA records are distinct from the NHL records in everyway.
This.

I believe the NHL officially recognizes Edmonton, Phoenix (Winnipeg), Colorado (Quebec) and Carolina (Hartford) as being founded in 1979.

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09-09-2011, 02:38 PM
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SonicBoom
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Then why is Bobby Hull's number retired in Phoenix?

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09-09-2011, 02:40 PM
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Hank Chinaski
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Originally Posted by SonicBoom View Post
Then why is Bobby Hull's number retired in Phoenix?
Because the NHL doesn't retire numbers, organizations do.

They can choose to honour whoever they want.

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09-09-2011, 02:43 PM
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The final two seasons of the WHA saw the debut of many superstars, some of which became hockey legends in the NHL. They included Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Ken Linseman, and Mike Gartner. The Birmingham franchise alone would feature future NHLers Rick Vaive, Michel Goulet, Rob Ramage, Craig Hartsburg and Gaston Gingras.

However, by the end of the final season, only six teams remained. Facing financial difficulty and unable to meet payrolls, the WHA finally came to an agreement with the NHL in early 1979. Under the deal, four WHA clubs – the Edmonton Oilers, New England Whalers (renamed the Hartford Whalers), Quebec Nordiques and Winnipeg Jets – joined the NHL. The other two WHA teams, the Cincinnati Stingers and Birmingham Bulls, were paid $1.5 million apiece in compensation. The agreement was very tilted in the NHL's favour. The older league treated the new clubs' arrival as an expansion, not a merger, so the four WHA refugees thus had to pay a $6 million franchise fee. The NHL also refused to recognize any WHA records. While the new clubs were allowed to stock their rosters with an expansion draft, NHL teams were allowed to reclaim players who had jumped to the WHA.

The WHA was able to wrangle only two concessions. First, the WHA teams were allowed to protect two goaltenders and two skaters to keep their rosters from being completely stripped clean by the old-line NHL teams. Second, the NHL allowed all of the WHA's Canadian teams to be part of the deal. The NHL had originally only been willing to take the Oilers, Whalers and Jets, but the WHA insisted that the Nordiques be included as well.

The deal came up for a vote at the NHL Board of Governors meeting in Key Largo, Florida on March 8. Despite the one-sided nature of the proposal, the final tally was 12-5, one vote short of passage, as a three-quarters majority was required to permit merger (13 teams out of 17 would have represented 76.5% of the league). The Boston Bruins, Los Angeles Kings, Montreal Canadiens, Toronto Maple Leafs and Vancouver Canucks all voted against the deal. The Bruins weren't pleased with having to share New England with the Whalers. Los Angeles and Vancouver feared losing home dates with NHL teams from the East. Montreal and Toronto weren't enamored at the prospect of having to split revenue from Hockey Night in Canada broadcasts six ways rather than three. Maple Leafs owner Ballard had a personal grudge as well; he'd never forgiven the WHA for plundering his team's roster in the early 1970s.

When a second vote was held in Chicago on March 22, however, Montreal and Vancouver changed their votes, allowing the deal to go forward. Vancouver was won over by the promise of a balanced schedule, with each team playing the others twice at home and twice on the road. The Canadiens' owners, Molson Breweries, were feeling the effects of a massive boycott that originated in Edmonton, Quebec City, and Winnipeg and spread across Canada. With the boycott severely hurting Molson's sales, the brewer reached agreement with the 3 Canadian WHA teams to have Molson become the exclusive supplier of beer to their arenas; it is probable that this concession was made in exchange for the Canadiens' vote.
Fascinating. The power of beer.

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09-09-2011, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SonicBoom View Post
Then why is Bobby Hull's number retired in Phoenix?
Well he did play 16 games or something for the jets in the NHL didn't he.

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09-09-2011, 04:03 PM
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The Molson boycott was amazing. Before, when a team got together about 75% of the guys would bring a case of Canadian. Then that was it. Most never went back. It was Club, Blue, or OV mostly.

And Molson had been sponsoring the 3 Stars. The announcers would say during the game: "please stay for the Molson Three Stars as selected by the Molson Three Stars Committee". After the boycott, they would say "please stay for the ... {pause} ... Three Stars as selected by the ... {pause} ... Three Stars Committee" and the fans would cheer during the pause. Molson read the writing on the wall. It was amazing people power.

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09-09-2011, 06:23 PM
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AndersUlfBobby
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The NHL still to this day prefers to re-write history and pretend that the WHA never existed. Why else would you see Jets t-shirts for sale over the last 15 years that have "established 1979" on them. What a pile of hooey.

BTW, I have a copy all 7 WHA yearly media guides along with lots of Jets publications and yearbooks safely tucked away way back in a closet in my house. Hurt too much to pull that stuff out for 15 years, so I haven't seen them forever. Might be a great time now to re-live all those wonderful memories some time some again.

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Old
09-09-2011, 06:46 PM
  #10
Hollywood3
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We should have a WHA night when the Oilers come to town. And the teams play in these:



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Old
09-10-2011, 05:36 AM
  #11
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The Phoenix Coyotes as of last year's media guide recognised the Winnipeg Jets World Hockey Association history as their own. I haven't seen the 2011-12 year's, but it could be interesting, as there is supposed to be some kind of ceremony before the Phoenix Coyotes home opener against the Winnipeg Jets.

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09-10-2011, 10:47 AM
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Lars65
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I would have to say no matter which team claims to own it, history doesn't really belong to anyone. Since Winnipeg fans are the only ones who even care in the slightest, I would say it's mostly theirs, though, not the organizations'.


Last edited by Lars65: 09-10-2011 at 10:49 AM. Reason: bad punctuation sorry I'm anal
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09-10-2011, 12:15 PM
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Fred C Dobbs
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I'm not sure but I think the WHA records belong to the cities where it had teams . Or to the organisations that still exist . Edmonton , Phoenix , Colorado , and Carolina . Hard to say .
I still would like it if this version of the Jets retired numbers 9 , 10 , 25 and Dan Snyder's number 19 .
I also wouldn't mind seeing the Jets retire Selanne's number 13 for the simple reason he was traded when he probably would have stayed with the team .
The WHA records should probably stay with the teams .

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Old
09-10-2011, 12:19 PM
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* my mistake Dan Snyder's number was 37 .

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Old
09-10-2011, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred C Dobbs View Post
I'm not sure but I think the WHA records belong to the cities where it had teams . Or to the organisations that still exist . Edmonton , Phoenix , Colorado , and Carolina . Hard to say .
I still would like it if this version of the Jets retired numbers 9 , 10 , 25 and Dan Snyder's number 19 .
I also wouldn't mind seeing the Jets retire Selanne's number 13 for the simple reason he was traded when he probably would have stayed with the team .
The WHA records should probably stay with the teams .
Carolina and Colorado don't recognise their past in Hartford and Quebec. For example, the number for Joe Sakic that hangs in Denver says he joined the team in 1995.

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09-10-2011, 12:45 PM
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WJG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBoom View Post
Then why is Bobby Hull's number retired in Phoenix?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveRaven View Post
Well he did play 16 games or something for the jets in the NHL didn't he.
This is the reason I brought this up.

It seems like Hull's number is retired/honored because of his accomplishments in the WHA, in which case arguments could also be made for retiring the numbers of:

Lars-Erik Sjoberg (first non-North American captain)
Ulf Nilsson (scored ~120 points every season with the Jets)
Anders Hedberg (scored 110+ points every season with the Jets, including a 70-goal year)

Not to mention all three won multiple Avco cups with the Jets and made the WHA first all-star teams.

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Old
09-10-2011, 08:45 PM
  #17
Warhead77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipeg Jet View Post
The Phoenix Coyotes as of last year's media guide recognised the Winnipeg Jets World Hockey Association history as their own. I haven't seen the 2011-12 year's, but it could be interesting, as there is supposed to be some kind of ceremony before the Phoenix Coyotes home opener against the Winnipeg Jets.
Recognizing history, yes, as in a little blurb on where the team originated from. Obviously there would be something written on how the Jets were founded in the WHA circa 1972.

But as far as WHA professional records go, the Coyotes do not own those. Those remain in Winnipeg - much like the final Avco Cup.

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Old
11-06-2012, 07:15 AM
  #18
MooseJets
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WHA Hall of Fame to be located in Winnipeg?

heres what the guy in charge of the wha has to say.


Timothy G..
Director/Producer

WHA Hall of Fame

www.WHAhof.com
www.whaRACERS.com

Hi RJ,



Winnipeg is still in the running for a WHA HOF display. We could be there as soon as this summer to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the league.



As for the WHA Jets “history, The NHL Phoenix team does not own anything associated with the WHA Jets. The “new” Jets have bought back the old NHL Jets logo, but I don’t know if they also bought back the old NHL Jets’ records, etc that were transferred to Phoenix with the NHL team’s move.



We are working to make sure the WHA Jets history is collected and remembered – we’re just now finishing a new documentary and interview with Bobby Hull, Anders Hedberg and Ulfie Nilsson – The Hot Line for debut later his year.



Many thanks for writing, and Go Jets Go!

Timothy G..
Director/Producer

WHA Hall of Fame

www.WHAhof.com
www.whaRACERS.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [mailto:]
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 2:31 AM
To: info@WHAhof.com
Subject: Winnipeg



Any luck in trying to get Winnipeg as the new location for the WHA Hall of Fame. Would be awesome to have it at the MTS Centre.



I was wondering

Who owns Jets WHA history? Is it Phoenix or the new Jets or no one or what?



Thanks,



RJ

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Old
11-06-2012, 12:30 PM
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Guardian17
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My feeling is the "Winnipeg Jets" is the identity of a team playing the highest level of hockey in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada.

It started with the Junior team in the WHL in 1967, followed by the WHA team, then the NHL team.

The Identity was dormant from spring 1996 until June 2011.

It now exists as the current Winnipeg Jets.

The "official" Phoenix Coyotes media guide is just a piece of paper.

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11-06-2012, 03:30 PM
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Moe Mantha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian17 View Post
My feeling is the "Winnipeg Jets" is the identity of a team playing the highest level of hockey in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada.

It started with the Junior team in the WHL in 1967, followed by the WHA team, then the NHL team.

The Identity was dormant from spring 1996 until June 2011.

It now exists as the current Winnipeg Jets.

The "official" Phoenix Coyotes media guide is just a piece of paper.
Hell yes! This is the way I look at it as well.

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Old
11-06-2012, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian17 View Post
My feeling is the "Winnipeg Jets" is the identity of a team playing the highest level of hockey in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada.

It started with the Junior team in the WHL in 1967, followed by the WHA team, then the NHL team.

The Identity was dormant from spring 1996 until June 2011.

It now exists as the current Winnipeg Jets.

The "official" Phoenix Coyotes media guide is just a piece of paper.
I agree with this. In fact if you were to cut me, I would probably bleed it too. As would a lot of Winnipeggers.

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Old
11-06-2012, 05:23 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian17 View Post
My feeling is the "Winnipeg Jets" is the identity of a team playing the highest level of hockey in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada.

It started with the Junior team in the WHL in 1967, followed by the WHA team, then the NHL team.

The Identity was dormant from spring 1996 until June 2011.

It now exists as the current Winnipeg Jets.

The "official" Phoenix Coyotes media guide is just a piece of paper.
Excellently put and I totally agree.

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11-07-2012, 07:57 AM
  #23
Warhead77
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As many have stated here, the NHL does not recognize WHA history/records, etc.

Much like the final Avco Cup, the Jets WHA history remained in Winnipeg.

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Old
11-26-2012, 10:30 PM
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We've had discussion's like this with Ottawa before, and I think that history belongs to the fans, players, and city.

Therefore, the only team that has a right to celebrate the history is the Jets. The Coyotes don't have that right just because of 15 overlapping players and some rich dude

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Old
11-27-2012, 08:02 AM
  #25
cheswick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersUlfBobby View Post
The NHL still to this day prefers to re-write history and pretend that the WHA never existed. Why else would you see Jets t-shirts for sale over the last 15 years that have "established 1979" on them. What a pile of hooey.

BTW, I have a copy all 7 WHA yearly media guides along with lots of Jets publications and yearbooks safely tucked away way back in a closet in my house. Hurt too much to pull that stuff out for 15 years, so I haven't seen them forever. Might be a great time now to re-live all those wonderful memories some time some again.
NHL shop. Jets sign. Established 1972.

http://shop.nhl.com/product/index.js...y_bestsell_txt

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