HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Rangers - Leafs

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-02-2012, 07:04 PM
  #26
JeffMangum
Ra shi da
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 55,629
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
McDonagh had 32 points in 82 games with 25A and 7 Goals

Gardiner had 30 points in 75 games with 23A and 7 Goals which took him 7 games less than McDonagh

McDonagh is only a year older, I don't see how it's an upgrade especially when Gardiner was on pace to out score McDonagh had he played a full 82 game season.
You don't see how it's an upgrade?

They're defenseman. Their level of play isn't measured strictly in points.

__________________

#TannerGlass2014
SEEN YOUR VIDEO!
#SheWentToHarvard
JeffMangum is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:04 PM
  #27
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,800
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
McDonagh had 32 points in 82 games with 25A and 7 Goals

Gardiner had 30 points in 75 games with 23A and 7 Goals which took him 7 games less than McDonagh

McDonagh is only a year older, I don't see how it's an upgrade especially when Gardiner was on pace to out score McDonagh had he played a full 82 game season.
Yeah. Judge McDonaugh by his point totals.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:05 PM
  #28
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,800
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I agree, but this not a question of "Proven asset" vs potential.
It's a question of wanting to move a player or not.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:06 PM
  #29
palindrom
Registered User
 
palindrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
They were dumb enough to offer him.
Of course i totally agree with that, they told themselves: "We are going to get Gomez, a proven NHL asset with 700gp and 115 playoff games experience and a Stanley cup, by giving mainly an unproven asset with no NHL experience in Mcdonagh."........ This was totally dumb!


Last edited by palindrom: 09-02-2012 at 11:29 PM.
palindrom is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:06 PM
  #30
Ih8theislanders
Full-kit ****ers
 
Ih8theislanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bronx,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,440
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
McDonagh had 32 points in 82 games with 25A and 7 Goals

Gardiner had 30 points in 75 games with 23A and 7 Goals which took him 7 games less than McDonagh

McDonagh is only a year older, I don't see how it's an upgrade especially when Gardiner was on pace to out score McDonagh had he played a full 82 game season.
You forgot the part where defense plays into the equation.

Ih8theislanders is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:08 PM
  #31
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
McDonagh had 32 points in 82 games with 25A and 7 Goals

Gardiner had 30 points in 75 games with 23A and 7 Goals which took him 7 games less than McDonagh

McDonagh is only a year older, I don't see how it's an upgrade especially when Gardiner was on pace to out score McDonagh had he played a full 82 game season.
Makes a lot of sense until you realize Gardiner averaged nearly 2 minutes of PP time per night, while McDonagh received 37 seconds per night.

Not to mention that whole "playing defense" thing.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:09 PM
  #32
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,800
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Of course i totally agree with that, they told themselves: "We are going to get a proven NHL asset with 700gp and 115 playoff games experience and Stanley cup, by giving mainly an unproven asset with no NHL experience." This was totally dumb!
And why was a proven NHL asset with 700gp and 115 playoff games experience available?

It cost their GM his job. Isn't that enough reason to disprove whatever argument you're trying to make?

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:12 PM
  #33
palindrom
Registered User
 
palindrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
And why was a proven NHL asset with 700gp and 115 playoff games experience available?

It cost their GM their job. Isn't that enough reason to disprove whatever argument you're trying to make?
Well my argument is: it doesn't matter that much if a player is proven of not. What matter is the future expectation for any player. Of course the odds is that a proven player can repeat what he already did in the past. But its only one criteria in the formula to evaluate the expectation for a given player.

palindrom is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:24 PM
  #34
palindrom
Registered User
 
palindrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It's a question of wanting to move a player or not.
We agree on this. As i say im not referring to the op proposal, only pointing to a weak argumentation about proven player.

palindrom is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:35 PM
  #35
Kreider Typical
flex
 
Kreider Typical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,546
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
So basically... Gomez for McDonagh who have proven zero in the NHL? I'm sure I don't have to tell you the NYR pass.

well, thankfully summer 2009 NYR didn't follow your wisdom.
cause gomez was = then what mcdonagh is = now??

so confused by that post.

this would be an absolutely terrible trade for nyr.
mcdonagh is more than likely going to be a multiple time Norris finalist as he earns PP time.
you're talking about moving what is arguably the best player not named lundqvist on last year's #2 team in the entire NHL regular season for two gambles.

you also have to consider that nyr going into next season(lockout permitting) is ready to compete for a cup right now. there's no guarantee that either one of those players will be ready to even play in the league full time this year.

i like gardiner in general. he stood out to me the few times i saw him. good overall package. good size. good hands. good feet, but honestly right now he doesn't even come close to ryan mcdonagh. it's not even a thought. maybe if he was a righty we'd be a little closer, but even then there'd need to be a good chunk more involved.

i don't know very much about kadri, but he sounds like he'd be a 3rd line center on our team at best IF he is ready to play right out of camp and can beat JT Miller and brian boyle for the spot... but at the cost of mcdonagh it's not even a thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
McDonagh had 32 points in 82 games with 25A and 7 Goals

Gardiner had 30 points in 75 games with 23A and 7 Goals which took him 7 games less than McDonagh

McDonagh is only a year older, I don't see how it's an upgrade especially when Gardiner was on pace to out score McDonagh had he played a full 82 game season.
if you're really going to use points to justify your reasoning... mcdonagh did not have even close to as much PP time (37~ seconds a game generally with the 2nd pp unit). he got most of his points playing in a shutdown role against one of--if not the most elite offensive division in the league. in the points that he scored on the PP with = PP time mcdonagh would've been on a higher pace than gardiner-- and gardiner isn't the same tier defensively.


Last edited by Kreider Typical: 09-02-2012 at 07:41 PM.
Kreider Typical is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:44 PM
  #36
Joey24
Registered User
 
Joey24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Zealand
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 5,453
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Joey24
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
I seriously can't believe tnhat Leafs fans would be the one turning this down. McDonagh, at the age of 21, already threw himself up as part of that top group of defensemen. Once he adds his offense it's going to be scary. He hasn't even been close to his prime.

Jake is a great young defensemen but not in the class of McD.
Seriously? I am not taking anything away from McDonagh he's a great young defenseman but for you or anyone else to say Gardiner isn't even in the same class as McDonagh is a pretty bold statement.

Joey24 is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:46 PM
  #37
SomE
Registered User
 
SomE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,779
vCash: 500
Leaf fans make me hate hockey.

Gardiner is one year younger.. McDonagh is 100 times better

SomE is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:48 PM
  #38
SomE
Registered User
 
SomE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,779
vCash: 500
I love the argument: "well McDonagh played on a really good defensive team"...

Ever stop to think that maybe they are good defensively because they have McDonagh back there leading the way?

Just like the Leafs are bad defensively because they have players like Gardiner back there.

SomE is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:49 PM
  #39
SomE
Registered User
 
SomE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey24 View Post
Seriously? I am not taking anything away from McDonagh he's a great young defenseman but for you or anyone else to say Gardiner isn't even in the same class as McDonagh is a pretty bold statement.
It is a correct statement.

If you want to compare Gardiner with someone compare him with Del Zotto.

SomE is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:52 PM
  #40
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 50
Nope.

McDonagh is the best Rangers defenseman since Brian Leetch. He's the team's franchise player along with Lundqvist. He's going to anchor this blue line for a decade. People need to watch the Rangers constantly to know how special this player is. I can safely say that he is probably the only untouchable along with Lundqvist on the Rangers.

Kershaw is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:55 PM
  #41
WWB
Registered User
 
WWB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 422
vCash: 500
This is an interesting proposal which I could see arguments for both teams doing and also not doing this trade. It is my opinion that both teams would be better off just keeping their players, seeing what they have, and not making this trade. Value is probably close but there is really no reason for either team to do this.

WWB is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:55 PM
  #42
thrillhouse99
Registered User
 
thrillhouse99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 841
vCash: 500
I'm a leafs fan, and honestly I wouldn't want this deal from our end. I think mcdonaugh is a lot closer to Gardiner than ranger fans want to think. It looks like a lateral move.

Leafs pass.

thrillhouse99 is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 07:59 PM
  #43
Leafs at Knight
Fire Burn the Ice
 
Leafs at Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomE View Post
Leaf fans make me hate hockey.

Gardiner is one year younger.. McDonagh is 100 times better
Oh boy

Leafs at Knight is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 08:00 PM
  #44
Rangers Fail
4 8 15 16 23 42
 
Rangers Fail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 17,487
vCash: 500
I'll just leave this here:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...4507--nhl.html

Where's Jake Gardiner on that list?

Rangers Fail is online now  
Old
09-02-2012, 08:01 PM
  #45
tony d
Thanks for memories
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,690
vCash: 500
The Rangers listen to that proposal from Toronto and hang up the phone laughing.

__________________
tony d is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 08:02 PM
  #46
Swervin81
Disgruntled Leaf Fan
 
Swervin81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,617
vCash: 500
Hell no from both sides.

Swervin81 is online now  
Old
09-02-2012, 08:04 PM
  #47
Brody
Registered User
 
Brody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,495
vCash: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
So basically... McDonagh for two guys who have proven zero in the NHL? I'm sure I don't have to tell you the NYR pass.
A 30 pt rookie season is pretty good, considering the fact Karlsson only had 26.

Brody is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 08:11 PM
  #48
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dion Phaneuf View Post
A 30 pt rookie season is pretty good, considering the fact Karlsson only had 26.
Don't think Gardiner would make the Rangers roster.... unless he plays on the right side.

Kershaw is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 08:19 PM
  #49
nmbr_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
McDonagh had 32 points in 82 games with 25A and 7 Goals

Gardiner had 30 points in 75 games with 23A and 7 Goals which took him 7 games less than McDonagh

McDonagh is only a year older, I don't see how it's an upgrade especially when Gardiner was on pace to out score McDonagh had he played a full 82 game season.
You must not have watched much of McDonagh. I wish what you are saying was true but it simply is not. Gardiner is pretty good, he just isn't in the same class as McDonagh.

Is there a difference between Shea Weber and Dion Phaneuf? There was only 5 points difference in their scoring totals?

nmbr_24 is offline  
Old
09-02-2012, 08:21 PM
  #50
Inverted
Registered User
 
Inverted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 2,256
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
Hell no from both sides.
This. But I want to know how can one player (Mcdonagh) be more valuable and considered a "franchise dman" than the other (Gardiner) when both players pretty much are of the same age and shared identical stats playing a full season.

Gardiner is valuable to Toronto as much as Mcdonagh is to the Rangers.


Last edited by Inverted: 09-02-2012 at 08:27 PM.
Inverted is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:47 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.