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Bettman: Lock-out if there's no deal by sept. 15 | Part II.

View Poll Results: DO YOU THINK THE OWNERS WILL VOTE TO LOCKOUT THE PLAYERS?
YES, LOCKOUT 110 82.71%
NO, PLAY AND MAKE A TON OF MONEY 23 17.29%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-07-2012, 01:25 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Maximus74 View Post
Here is my crazy idea to pay for contraction...

For the next 6 years, the NHL sells each of the top ten draft picks to the highest bidder...

How much would the Leafs/Rangers/etc. bid to buy Nathan Mackinnon or Seth Jones? Lots. Money is used to buy-out **** franchises.
Brilliant i love it!!

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Old
09-07-2012, 01:33 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
According to Dreger the whole season may be wiped out.

That's ********. The fans deserve better than that.

Gary Bettman needs to go.
Duh, thats nothing new. With the CBA expiring and no new CBA in place, of course theres a chance the season could get cancelled...

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09-07-2012, 03:36 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Well the simplest reason is that it's a lockout. The players are willing to play under the old CBA until they get an agreement done. Owners aren't, owners shutting down hockey until they get a new deal. So can't lock out the players and then hire replacement players.
But I thought the NFL locked their players out as well and were still able to bring in replacement players guess I just got things mixed up. I thought since the old CBA was expired that all contracts and such were invalid till a new cba was reached. And with this would give the owners the flexibility to use replacement players.

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09-07-2012, 03:40 PM
  #129
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09-07-2012, 04:33 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Joey24 View Post
But I thought the NFL locked their players out as well and were still able to bring in replacement players guess I just got things mixed up. I thought since the old CBA was expired that all contracts and such were invalid till a new cba was reached. And with this would give the owners the flexibility to use replacement players.
Bettman has said many times in the past that he would never use replacement players. He said something along the lines of "We have the best athletes in the world, and we would never think of using anyone but the best for our product" - something like that.

Replacements? Nope.

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09-07-2012, 04:53 PM
  #131
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Get those Avy's going.

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09-07-2012, 06:29 PM
  #132
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will or will not, owners lockout players?

i think when the owners vote to lockout the players, they will vote to allow the season to start, based on the current CBA , for 1 more year, as long as the players agree to NOT strike during the season.

to much money to lose, the revenues are going up, tv money is good, the owners do have a cap.

teams are starting to sign there RFA,s, managers must know something?

bettman has been hard balling the players to see where they stand.

to much things to decide on, in the CBA. in a short amount of time.

owners are not stupid, they are making a ton of money. last time it was to get CAP

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09-07-2012, 06:52 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by cup67 View Post
i think when the owners vote to lockout the players, they will vote to allow the season to start, based on the current CBA , for 1 more year, as long as the players agree to NOT strike during the season.

to much money to lose, the revenues are going up, tv money is good, the owners do have a cap.

teams are starting to sign there RFA,s, managers must know something?

bettman has been hard balling the players to see where they stand.

to much things to decide on, in the CBA. in a short amount of time.

owners are not stupid, they are making a ton of money. last time it was to get CAP
Almost all of the owners actually lose money on an annual basis. They are billionaires that only make money when they sell their team, they know this going in. Considering they don't care if they make or lose money each season, they hold the power. The players will have to concede if they want to play this season.

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09-07-2012, 06:56 PM
  #134
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A lockout of a full season makes a lot of sense for the Leafs so I support it. Guarnteed lottery pick again folks. Double down.

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09-07-2012, 07:00 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
A lockout of a full season makes a lot of sense for the Leafs so I support it. Guarnteed lottery pick again folks. Double down.
Wrong. Just as likely we pick outside the top 15.

well not quite as i haven't bothered to run the probability yet but damn close.


edit; started the calculation based on us having 3 balls with the same ratios as last time,4(3),10(2),16(1)=48

Start with 6.25% to win assume a 3 baller wins(which is a stupid assumption)
45=6.66% to take second
and so on, and so on

Not good odds at all and if you disagree I have a seat for you at a poker table.Bring money.


Last edited by clawfirst: 09-07-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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Old
09-07-2012, 07:02 PM
  #136
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No I said after the 15th. there are no rules.

If the season is lost, Lupul can't be extended, therefore he'll be UFA when/if NHL is back in business.

If the season is not lost, everything is back to well maybe not back since we don't know what the new rules will be, but he could then be traded if not re-signed.
So I guess that would be the same for getzlaf, perry, and all the other pending fa's?

Glass is half full not half empty.

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09-07-2012, 07:25 PM
  #137
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I think something will get done before any games are lost. I think the Players will come to the realization that there is no escaping 50/50. Let's face it folks, it's the sports industry standard now.

But, the players won't take that 7% piece of the pie right off the top, they'll want it brought in slowly. The owners can probably live with that... just need a scaling down approach.

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09-07-2012, 09:44 PM
  #138
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On the Prime Time Sports round table tonight McCown offered a close source to the negotiations told him a deal will get done in November and a schedule starting around November 23rd has already been drawn up and would include all 82 games.

The panel also offered all in agreement there is zero chance a deal gets done by Sept 15th.

But how McCown's source can claim to know a deal will get done in time to impliment a schedule starting around November 23rd seems a little suspect to me.

Remember...in the last lockout there were about a million predictions as to when a deal was going to happen from "sources" that tanked.


Last edited by CoolBlue*: 09-07-2012 at 09:50 PM.
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Old
09-07-2012, 10:06 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
So I guess that would be the same for getzlaf, perry, and all the other pending fa's?

Glass is half full not half empty.
Part of the owners offer was to up the length of service required for UFA status.

Getzlaf and Perry may not be UFA by July of next year, but that would likely mean neither would Kessel the year after.

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09-07-2012, 10:08 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by CoolBlue View Post
On the Prime Time Sports round table tonight McCown offered a close source to the negotiations told him a deal will get done in November and a schedule starting around November 23rd has already been drawn up and would include all 82 games.

The panel also offered all in agreement there is zero chance a deal gets done by Sept 15th.

But how McCown's source can claim to know a deal will get done in time to impliment a schedule starting around November 23rd seems a little suspect to me.

Remember...in the last lockout there were about a million predictions as to when a deal was going to happen from "sources" that tanked.
There has been talk for quite some time, US Thanksgiving is the target.

From what I've heard, that's when the US TV contract kicks in.

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09-08-2012, 12:28 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
There has been talk for quite some time, US Thanksgiving is the target.

From what I've heard, that's when the US TV contract kicks in.
Wouldn't really be surprised at all tbh.

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09-08-2012, 12:32 AM
  #142
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The only positive thing to come from a lockout is that we'll avoid a flood of threads about Kadri being a bust and how stupid management is for putting him with the Marlies instead of the big club, lol.

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09-08-2012, 01:39 AM
  #143
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The only positive thing to come from a lockout is that we'll avoid a flood of threads about Kadri being a bust and how stupid management is for putting him with the Marlies instead of the big club, lol.
Which is a good thing. More time for him to show what he can do after this summer.

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09-08-2012, 06:52 AM
  #144
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Article with interesting insiders view of labour negotiations. Some general observations:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...-deadline-near

IF THEY AREN’T TALKING TO EACH OTHER, WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

Hargrove: “There’s a lot going on. A lot of (internal) debate about what, if anything, they can do differently than they’ve tabled already. I’d guess Donald Fehr and the committee are talking about every aspect of the bargaining.”

SMITH: “There are some guys somewhere in a backroom crunching numbers and thinking up solutions who are not in the spotlight. They’re not the face of the negotiations, but are trying to find a solution where each side can appear to have achieved something. That’s the definition of a successful negotiation, where you find some mutual self-interest in the solution.”

WHEN DO YOU THINK FANS WILL SEE A BREAKTHROUGH IN TALKS?

HARGROVE: “I wouldn’t expect any major break in the bargaining until you get down to the wire, the last 48 hours. Things like the share of hockey-related money. Those are big cuts that the owners are asking for. If there’s any move that’s creative that will be done, it won’t happen until you get very close to the deadline.”

Wednesday or Thursday will be telling.

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09-08-2012, 07:35 AM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crump View Post
Article with interesting insiders view of labour negotiations. Some general observations:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...-deadline-near

IF THEY AREN’T TALKING TO EACH OTHER, WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

Hargrove: “There’s a lot going on. A lot of (internal) debate about what, if anything, they can do differently than they’ve tabled already. I’d guess Donald Fehr and the committee are talking about every aspect of the bargaining.”

SMITH: “There are some guys somewhere in a backroom crunching numbers and thinking up solutions who are not in the spotlight. They’re not the face of the negotiations, but are trying to find a solution where each side can appear to have achieved something. That’s the definition of a successful negotiation, where you find some mutual self-interest in the solution.”

WHEN DO YOU THINK FANS WILL SEE A BREAKTHROUGH IN TALKS?

HARGROVE: “I wouldn’t expect any major break in the bargaining until you get down to the wire, the last 48 hours. Things like the share of hockey-related money. Those are big cuts that the owners are asking for. If there’s any move that’s creative that will be done, it won’t happen until you get very close to the deadline.”

Wednesday or Thursday will be telling.
Fascinating article crump. Thanks for posting

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09-08-2012, 07:57 PM
  #146
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So I guess that would be the same for getzlaf, perry, and all the other pending fa's?

Glass is half full not half empty.
It would depend ... can someone please clarify - IF the season is lost, WOULD it burn a year off of every players contract? Wouldn't the contracts just be suspended for the year? I mean - if I was player X and lost a year of my contract, I would say the team owes me for that money as I showed up willing to honor my end of the deal.

Does anyone remember how it worked last time?

Also - IF every player does lose a year of his contract, that will make for an EXTREMELY strong UFA market, and the Leafs will have a LOT of cap space!

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09-08-2012, 08:17 PM
  #147
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It would depend ... can someone please clarify - IF the season is lost, WOULD it burn a year off of every players contract? Wouldn't the contracts just be suspended for the year? I mean - if I was player X and lost a year of my contract, I would say the team owes me for that money as I showed up willing to honor my end of the deal.

Does anyone remember how it worked last time?

Also - IF every player does lose a year of his contract, that will make for an EXTREMELY strong UFA market, and the Leafs will have a LOT of cap space!
Pretty sure if the season is lost, a year is burned off the contract.

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09-08-2012, 10:05 PM
  #148
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Pretty sure if the season is lost, a year is burned off the contract.
That's what happened last time. However, I suspect that things like that and how the draft will be handled are all a part of the negotiated settlement.

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09-09-2012, 12:02 AM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crump View Post
Article with interesting insiders view of labour negotiations. Some general observations:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...-deadline-near

IF THEY AREN’T TALKING TO EACH OTHER, WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

Hargrove: “There’s a lot going on. A lot of (internal) debate about what, if anything, they can do differently than they’ve tabled already. I’d guess Donald Fehr and the committee are talking about every aspect of the bargaining.”

SMITH: “There are some guys somewhere in a backroom crunching numbers and thinking up solutions who are not in the spotlight. They’re not the face of the negotiations, but are trying to find a solution where each side can appear to have achieved something. That’s the definition of a successful negotiation, where you find some mutual self-interest in the solution.”

WHEN DO YOU THINK FANS WILL SEE A BREAKTHROUGH IN TALKS?

HARGROVE: “I wouldn’t expect any major break in the bargaining until you get down to the wire, the last 48 hours. Things like the share of hockey-related money. Those are big cuts that the owners are asking for. If there’s any move that’s creative that will be done, it won’t happen until you get very close to the deadline.”

Wednesday or Thursday will be telling.
Isn't this stuff kind of obvious? Do people really think that Fehr and Bettman just pull full-blown CBA proposals out of their butts at the bargaining table?

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09-10-2012, 09:26 AM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crump View Post
Article with interesting insiders view of labour negotiations. Some general observations:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...-deadline-near

IF THEY AREN’T TALKING TO EACH OTHER, WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

Hargrove: “There’s a lot going on. A lot of (internal) debate about what, if anything, they can do differently than they’ve tabled already. I’d guess Donald Fehr and the committee are talking about every aspect of the bargaining.”

SMITH: “There are some guys somewhere in a backroom crunching numbers and thinking up solutions who are not in the spotlight. They’re not the face of the negotiations, but are trying to find a solution where each side can appear to have achieved something. That’s the definition of a successful negotiation, where you find some mutual self-interest in the solution.”

WHEN DO YOU THINK FANS WILL SEE A BREAKTHROUGH IN TALKS?

HARGROVE: “I wouldn’t expect any major break in the bargaining until you get down to the wire, the last 48 hours. Things like the share of hockey-related money. Those are big cuts that the owners are asking for. If there’s any move that’s creative that will be done, it won’t happen until you get very close to the deadline.”

Wednesday or Thursday will be telling.
fascinating article, thanks for posting it.

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