HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Guys who succeeded who were not supposed to

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-03-2012, 11:45 AM
  #1
darkhorse686
Registered User
 
darkhorse686's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
Guys who succeeded who were not supposed to

Since there is a discussion about the most dominant junior players who completely flopped at the NHL level after being highly touted, I began to think of the opposite case: guys of whom little was expected and yet they went on to have profitable (perhaps amazing) careers. One player that comes to mind is Adam Oates. He was never drafted but had a great career. Ed Belfour is another guy. He was not drafted either and at one point he was on the Canadian National Team (a bad sign in those days). Today, he's got his name on the Stanley Cup.

Any other examples?

darkhorse686 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 12:00 PM
  #2
IComeInPeace
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: LA
Country: Canada
Posts: 999
vCash: 500
Good topic...
Oates is a good one.
Recall him and Ray Staszak were the first UFA's coming out of college that got the big dough.
I think Staszak was the one that was really in high demand (received a million dollar contract) and Oates was a small step behind.
They both were disappointing in training camp I think, but Oates obviously really lived up to the billing. Staszak barely played before being forced to retire due to injury.

I know this imay not really be what you were going for, but even Wayne Gretzky could fall into this discussion. I think there were a lot of people that would have said his game would not translate to pro hockey (esp the NHL).

How about Andrew Brunette. Not a superstar by any means, but watching him skate, and as a 7th rd pick, it is crazy to think he has played almost 1200 NHL games, and had a pretty impressive career after being waiver wire fodder for a long time.

IComeInPeace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 12:18 PM
  #3
darkhorse686
Registered User
 
darkhorse686's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
Billy Smith is another prime example. wasn't drafted until the fifth round in 1970 but became a major player in Isles dynasty.

darkhorse686 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 12:18 PM
  #4
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,573
vCash: 500
How about John Leclair? Just seemed like a big bodied, semi skilled winger drafted in the middle rounds who could chip in a bit of offense and then took off when he went to Philadelphia with Eric Lindros and Mikael Renberg.

Stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 03:04 PM
  #5
tony d
Honey Nut Cheerios
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,079
vCash: 500
How about Curtis Joseph? Never drafted and he ended up being one of the best goalies of the 90's.

Also Martin St.Louis. Never drafted and shunned away by Calgary, he goes to Tampa and is one of their best players.

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 03:47 PM
  #6
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
 
Rhiessan71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Guelph, Ont
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,276
vCash: 500
Tim Thomas
Borje Salming

One of the biggest of all had to be Gretzky himself. Too small, too frail, never survive in the NHL ect ect.

Rhiessan71 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 04:07 PM
  #7
skeena1
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
How about Curtis Joseph? Never drafted and he ended up being one of the best goalies of the 90's.

Also Martin St.Louis. Never drafted and shunned away by Calgary, he goes to Tampa and is one of their best players.
IIRC, Joseph wasn't even picked in the bantam draft.

skeena1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 04:17 PM
  #8
Mr Atoz*
I hid the Atavachron
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Rod Gilbert. He had spinal fusion surgery when he was 18, nearly died, and was told he would never play hockey again.

Mr Atoz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 04:27 PM
  #9
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,118
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Tim Thomas
Borje Salming

One of the biggest of all had to be Gretzky himself. Too small, too frail, never survive in the NHL ect ect.
Tim Thomas and Brian Rafalski come to mind as does Ken Dryden and Red Berenson who both took the US College route back when it produced very few NHLers, never mind decent players.

Marty St Louis fits the description of this thread more than Oates IMO because there was an expectation that Adam would produce and Marty was just signed as a project.

Bobby Clarke with his diabetes also comes to mind as his skill set was beyond a doubt but it was dubious that his health would be good enough for him to play in the NHL never mind be a star.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 04:37 PM
  #10
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Fenway
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,997
vCash: 500
Along with the aforementioned Oates, Leclair, Belfour, Kerr and St. Louis, there's:

Martin Erat
- late 7th rounder who's been a mainstay with Nashville since he got drafted. Second overall in franchise for goals and points scored.

Michael Ryder
- 8th round pick that some say is an underachiever (that's a contradiction, eh?), but he's averaged around 25 goals/season including 3 30+ goal seasons. Was instrumental in the Bruins Cup run.

Andrew Ference
- late 8th round pick, undersized 2nd pairing defenseman but somehow manages to get his nose dirty while playing steadily within his skill set...about to enter his 14th season.

Tomas Holmstrom
- late 10th rounder.... had good numbers in Sweden but unknown if he could transition to the North American game. As solid a two-way player out there now with 15 yrs / 1026 games and 4 Cups under his belt.

Hal Gill
- big and slow, the 6'7" goober was drafted in the 8th round while still in a Massachusetts high school. An unassuming but solid career, effective if used in the proper match-ups, he now has 15 yrs / 1070 games played and a Stanley Cup.

Tim Thomas
- a 9th rounder, who by sheer perseverance and a lot of years and trips through many of hockey's hinterland black holes, finally proved all naysayers wrong with a relatively short but impressive career that includes him almost singlehandedly winning a Cup for the Bruins.

Andy Brickley
- the last player drafted in 1980....came from a working/middle class suburb of Boston. Not too big but solidly built, he used his smarts, observing the game and its traits enough to play in 11 NHL seasons. After playing in the minors and mentoring ypung players for a few more seasons, used his knowledge of the game to turn himself into one of the better tv hockey analysts today.

P.A. Parenteau
- 9th round pick in a weak 2001 draft. After riding through seemingly houndrds of thousands of miles in a bus through the hinterlands of North America, finally gets a chance to become a regular at the age of 27 yrs old with the Islanders and proves himself to be more than worthy.

Gary Suter
- 9th round pick who became a great defenseman, (should be in HoF IMO), played 1145 games / scored 845 pts / 20+ goals/season three times and won the Calder.

Luc Robitaille
- Another 9th rounder who did make the HoF. Currently 10th all-time in goals scored.

Don Sweeney
- a late 8th round undersized defenseman from Harvard originally drafted when he was a high schooler in New Hampshire. Played 1115 NHL games by using his brains and playing within himself.

Craig MacTavish
- a late 9th rounder by Boston after playing at UMass-Lowell. Played 1093 games and scored 480 pts mainly as a 3rd line checking forward. Won 3 Cups with the Oilers, (twice against the Bruiins who released him after spending jail time for his drunk driving manslaughter conviction), and once with the Rangers.

Cliff Roning
- a skilled but small (listed generously as 5'8" tall), was a late 7th round pick who played 1137 games and scored 306 goals and 869 points as well as 86 playoff points.

Jason Blake
- an undrafted 5'10' / 180 lb forward who's played 871 games and scored 213 goals so far, including 40 in 06/07 w/ the Islanders. Has won the Masterson.

Geoff Courtnall.
- fast and nasty, he was undfrafted and signed to a FA w/ the Bruins. Played 1049 games / 367 goals / 799 pts. A former teammate once said that he would've been a HoFer if "he actually gave a sheet".

Steve Duchesne
- an uundrafted defenseman who played 1113 games, scored 227 goals (20+/season four times) / 752 pts over 15 yrs. Played 121 playoff games, scoring 16 goals and 77 pts and won a Stanley Cup w/ Detroit in has last season.

CuJo
- Given up for adoption at birth, he was undrafted out of college. After 1 yr in Peroia and never looked back. Played 943 games and won 454 of them, the most by a GK who never won a Cup.. He does have an Olympic and World Championship under his belt.

Mike Keane
- undrafted after a solid but unassuming junoir career, ended up winning 3 Stanley Cups by being used mainly as a 3rd line winger with 1161 games and 470 pts under his belt. At the age of 38 he went to his hometown Winnipeg and finished his career after playing 5 more seasons as captain with the AHL Moose, averaging 73 games/season.

Jamie Macoun
- an undrafted defenseman out of Ohio State, signed with the Flames and won a Cup with them and another with the Red Wings and got to the Conference Finals with Toronto. Played a hard-nosed 1128 games with 358 points and 1208 PIMs.

Dan Girardi
- went undrafted after winning a Memorial Cup in his final season, he was signed by the Rangers and is the rock of a very good defensive corps, leading the entire NHL with average/TOI last season and getting an All-Star nod.

Mike Milbury
- an undrafted native Bay Stater after playing at Colgate and signed to FA contract with the Bruins. Not very mobile but playing with a fire second to none except for Terry O'Reilly, he played 754 games over the next 11 yrs with his chaotic, unorthodox and sometimes nasty style. Was as notorious a coach and GM (in the same manner) as he is known for beating a NYR fan with his own shoe.

Joel Otto
- undrafted after playing at Bemidji State University, he signed to the Flames and was an instrumental part of their Cup year. A big, tough forward who was known for his defensive game as much as for his fists, still managing to 508 points in 943 games, (and 1934 PIMs). Playoffs he stepped up with 74 pts / 205 PIMs in 122 games.

Dino Ciccarelli
- a 5'10' undrafted player who became a HoFer. A bit of a loose cannon with some nasty chippiness but not without a great skill set, he scored 608 goals/1200 pts and 1425 PIMs in 1232 games.

Other undrafted:
Dustin Penner
Brian Rafalski
Rich Peverley
Dave Poulin
Andy Sutton
Dave Tippett
Jeff Odgers
Marty McSorley
Orest Kindrachuk
Josh Gorges
Matt Cullen

BubbaBoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 04:48 PM
  #11
vadim sharifijanov
Rrbata
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,026
vCash: 500
joe mullen, steve sullivan, theo fleury, cliff ronning, kimmo timonen, donald audette, uwe krupp.

one of these guys is not like the others.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 04:48 PM
  #12
metalfoot
Karlsson!
 
metalfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,564
vCash: 500
Daniel Alfredsson. Drafted in the 6th round as a 21 year old, if I recall correctly. Has done alright after earning a spot on the Sens out of camp.

metalfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 04:59 PM
  #13
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalfoot View Post
Daniel Alfredsson. Drafted in the 6th round as a 21 year old, if I recall correctly. Has done alright after earning a spot on the Sens out of camp.
When it comes to late rounders I wonder if Kim Johnsson doesn't the prize there. Drafted in the 11th round the same year and became a solid defensive anchor for the Wild and Rangers ("The prince of New York" I remember an article stating).

That whole draft were filled with late rounders like Vokoun, Tärnström, Thomas, Nabokov, Sullivan, Zednik and Jörgen Jönsson.

jkrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 06:01 PM
  #14
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Fenway
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
When it comes to late rounders I wonder if Kim Johnsson doesn't the prize there. Drafted in the 11th round the same year and became a solid defensive anchor for the Wild and Rangers ("The prince of New York" I remember an article stating).

That whole draft were filled with late rounders like Vokoun, Tärnström, Thomas, Nabokov, Sullivan, Zednik and Jörgen Jönsson.
But didn't these guys have good early careers in Europe first and came over with some kind of higher expectations than say a junior player or an undrafted collegian?

BubbaBoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 06:12 PM
  #15
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,103
vCash: 500
burrows - not drafted, echl -> ahl -> nhl 4th line -> nhl 1st line

every level had him establish himself at that role before exceeding it and i'll bet there weren't too many people betting on each step of his progression

Verviticus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 06:13 PM
  #16
RECsGuy*
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,478
vCash: 500
Undrafted

4 consecutive 50-goal seasons (2 goals short of a 5th)


RECsGuy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-03-2012, 06:45 PM
  #17
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
 
WarriorOfGandhi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Country: Scotland
Posts: 14,035
vCash: 500
Chara maybe? Never had the impression that he had more than goon potential with the Islanders, then he gets traded to the Senators and he becomes one of the best dmen of the past decade

WarriorOfGandhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2012, 07:50 AM
  #18
darkhorse686
Registered User
 
darkhorse686's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Marty St Louis fits the description of this thread more than Oates IMO because there was an expectation that Adam would produce and Marty was just signed as a project.
Turns out you are correct about Oates. Still, it took until his junior year of college for teams to seriously consider him. When he played for the Markham Waxers at Junior A level, no NHL team bothered cause they thought he was too slow (he corrected that weakness later on).

darkhorse686 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2012, 08:09 AM
  #19
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,011
vCash: 500
Lubomir Visnovsky. Scouts passed him as small and weak. Got some attention after his silver medal on WC and was drafted as 24 years old in fourth round. The rest is history. Pretty good career for defenman drafted in his 24.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2012, 08:22 AM
  #20
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 13,382
vCash: 500
Most of the guys listed here were still huge talents as junior/college players, but were marked down because of their size and skating.

Guys I find fascinating are ones that showed little/no actual talent at lower levels but then found something later on.

One guy I saw play a lot in the WHL - Kris Versteeg was a dime-a-dozen undersized 2nd line WHL forward who topped out at 22 goals and 52 points in that league. 16 goals in his last year of junior, plus traded away from Kamloops for having a crap attitude. Decent skater and two-way player, but there are loads of guys like this in the WHL and most end up going straight to Canadian University hockey after their overage year. Versteeg went from 48 points in the WHL to 72 points in the AHL the following season, the biggest upward blip I've ever seen from a player moving up levels. Has ended up being one of the very rare players who produced bigger numbers in the NHL than they did in the CHL.

Similar story with Nate Thompson who has somehow turned into a decently useful NHL player. Would have outright laughed circa 2005 if I'd been told that either guy would turn into a quality NHL regular.

MS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2012, 08:22 AM
  #21
SaintMorose
Registered User
 
SaintMorose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,074
vCash: 50
John Madden - 1 Selke 3 times a finialist 3 Stanley Cups.

11th round OHL draft pick after spending time in Jr B
4 years of college hockey after going undrafted by the NHL
2 years in the AHL and nearly 27 years old before his first NHL game

SaintMorose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2012, 09:06 AM
  #22
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,011
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
Guys I find fascinating are ones that showed little/no actual talent at lower levels but then found something later on.
Then Chara is your man.

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2012, 11:02 AM
  #23
darkhorse686
Registered User
 
darkhorse686's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
Guys I find fascinating are ones that showed little/no actual talent at lower levels but then found something later on.
Bob Froese maybe? Drafted way late (9th round or so) and bounced around the AHL and IHL for 4 years before hanging in with Philly and forging a decent career


Last edited by darkhorse686: 09-04-2012 at 03:45 PM.
darkhorse686 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2012, 11:50 AM
  #24
redbull
movin'on up
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,066
vCash: 500
Steve Thomas, undrafted, scored 50+ goals, 100+ pts last year of junior. Went on to score over 400 goals in 1200+ games.

Mark Recchi, 4th round pick but was small, didn't skate well.
154 pts last year of junior in Kamloops and 577 career goals, 1600 games, 7 time all-star, instrumental on a three cup teams, all different, two of them 10 years apart.

redbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-04-2012, 11:52 AM
  #25
jkrx
Registered User
 
jkrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,284
vCash: 500
After watching him, I have to say, Jack Connolly will be the new Martin St Louis.

jkrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.