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Article on Luongo practices this morning and greatly favors return to Panthers

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Old
09-06-2012, 08:59 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
If I were a GM I'd be telling my owner "Let's see what the new CBA looks like before we add Luongo's contract"

My fear would be to add a long contract like Luongo's just to find some language in the new CBA that makes it harder to bury that contract in the minors at a later date.
this is possible I suppose, though im not a cba expert. Though they usually grandfather pre-existing contracts ... it would be pretty tough, say, for the league to tell the Devils they're stuck with Kovy's full term on top of having dinged them a 1st rounder, etc.
still, it's all the more reason we're likely to see a delay in the Luo trade..

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09-06-2012, 09:17 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
this is possible I suppose, though im not a cba expert. Though they usually grandfather pre-existing contracts ... it would be pretty tough, say, for the league to tell the Devils they're stuck with Kovy's full term on top of having dinged them a 1st rounder, etc.
still, it's all the more reason we're likely to see a delay in the Luo trade..
I heard Darren Dreger talking on the radio this AM about the league wanting to count salaries in the minors as part of player salary for determining what players received as their share of revenue. I'm pretty sure the players arent going to want to enable teams to dump players in the minors so they'll likely try and negotiate it could end up with all salaries counting against the cap which would make it harder to send a player like Luongo to the minors in the future. No grandfathering takes place just a change of accounting practices and it could hurt the teams that handed out the long term contracts but I dont think the league will have a big problem with that.

Agreed that it means no deal gets done until a CBA is in place but I think most of us knew this when he wasnt traded at the draft.

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09-06-2012, 09:18 AM
  #178
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I suppose the better question is do Canucks fans feel like the offers will get better with time or worse?

While the CBA remains undecided to date, I think we can all conclusively agree that there is no way the cap is going up, an extremely best case scenario would be the cap staying the same, and the most likely being the cap going down.

If the cap does indeed end up dropping down the Canucks will end up losing what little leverage they had at this point.

It would be in their best interest to make a move sooner rather than later because I don't see the potential win outcome for Gillis in this situation?

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09-06-2012, 09:20 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
I suppose the better question is do Canucks fans feel like the offers will get better with time or worse?

While the CBA remains undecided to date, I think we can all conclusively agree that there is no way the cap is going up, an extremely best case scenario would be the cap staying the same, and the most likely being the cap going down.

If the cap does indeed end up dropping down the Canucks will end up losing what little leverage they had at this point.

It would be in their best interest to make a move sooner rather than later because I don't see the potential win outcome for Gillis in this situation?
Terrible question to ask. Mike Gillis will wait it out until the right deal comes in place. If there is a cap reduction, there should also be a salary reduction. So in the end Luongo's salary will go down a long with the cap.

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09-06-2012, 09:25 AM
  #180
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Terrible question to ask. Mike Gillis will wait it out until the right deal comes in place. If there is a cap reduction, there should also be a salary reduction. So in the end Luongo's salary will go down a long with the cap.
As we saw with the last league proposal salary's may not go down which makes his contract that much worse and there is the potential that the circumvention moves like sending him to the minors to avoid the cap hit may be removed in this CBA. Until that is known there is no market right now. Nobody is going to risk a worst case scenario and take on a contract that may be a boat anchor.

The way things look his value can only go up.

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09-06-2012, 09:29 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
I suppose the better question is do Canucks fans feel like the offers will get better with time or worse?

While the CBA remains undecided to date, I think we can all conclusively agree that there is no way the cap is going up, an extremely best case scenario would be the cap staying the same, and the most likely being the cap going down.

If the cap does indeed end up dropping down the Canucks will end up losing what little leverage they had at this point.

It would be in their best interest to make a move sooner rather than later because I don't see the potential win outcome for Gillis in this situation?
yeah they're not going to just lower the cap without a salary roll-back ..how would that possibly work?

as i posted, I do believe time is on Gillis' side.

There has been zero acrimony btw the parties and Luo & Schneider are under contract. Go back and look at all the actual quotes from Luongo, Schneider or Gillis -- nothing there but utter professionalism. Even in the Nash case, where there was public discord, they still got a pretty good return. Gillis will wait. Worst case, they start the season splitting time, a la Halak-Elliot.

The Canucks are very close ...close as they've even been. Luongo is their #1 trading chip. You really think Gillis is going to rush / minimize the trade and his best chance to put the team over the top just becasue he has 2 guys who want to start?

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09-06-2012, 09:34 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
As we saw with the last league proposal salary's may not go down which makes his contract that much worse and there is the potential that the circumvention moves like sending him to the minors to avoid the cap hit may be removed in this CBA. Until that is known there is no market right now. Nobody is going to risk a worst case scenario and take on a contract that may be a boat anchor.

The way things look his value can only go up.
Maybe.
But I'd like to hear the Devils' fans pov on this...
How would Lou & co react, having forfeited a 1st and a 3rd, on top of $3M, to Kovy being unable to retire until 47 (or whatever it is..?)

I think it's extremely unlikely, given all the priorities and headaches theyre trying to iron out right now (supposedly), that they will add the extra complication of trying to retro-punish cheater contracts from years ago ....

but i could be wrong...

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09-06-2012, 09:34 AM
  #183
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yeah they're not going to just lower the cap without a salary roll-back ..how would that possibly work?
The league has already proposed it so dont act like it's impossible.

Buyouts are the #1 way to get teams back to cap compliance and if the Canucks end up buying out Luongo then teams will be able to pick him up for nothing. Another reason why nobody trades for him right now.

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09-06-2012, 09:42 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
The league has already proposed it so dont act like it's impossible.

Buyouts are the #1 way to get teams back to cap compliance and if the Canucks end up buying out Luongo then teams will be able to pick him up for nothing. Another reason why nobody trades for him right now.
ok. Like i said, im not an expert
Pretty sure the Canucks won't be buying out Luongo. Other guys like Ballard would go first, and even then, Gillis would get some value...

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09-06-2012, 09:47 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by JayBeautiful View Post
Great strategy, if your the only one interested in Luongo. I wouldn't hold my breath hoping to force Gillis' hand with some low ball offer, because while your trying to wait out Gillis maybe that's when Toronto or Chicago or Columbus or my dark horse team Washington decide to make their move and your left sucking hind tit.
Did you even read the part about the PROSPECTS and CHEAPER SERVICEABLE GOALIES? If the offer gets so ridiculous they can't accept, they'll do it. Otherwise, they are set and don't really care.

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09-06-2012, 09:49 AM
  #186
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Terrible question to ask. Mike Gillis will wait it out until the right deal comes in place. If there is a cap reduction, there should also be a salary reduction. So in the end Luongo's salary will go down a long with the cap.
This makes no sense. Everyone's salary will be reduced, along with the cap, which still puts Luongo and his salary in the same spot it was before. Not even sure what his current cap has to do with anything, either...

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09-06-2012, 10:04 AM
  #187
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is that why?

i thought it all started because there was some indication of interest from Tallon, which most of us thought curious given Markstrom.

As a Canuck fan I am happy that Gillis is keeping the bar high and all this 'cap dump' talk is the stuff of keyboard jockeys and sportswriters of non-Canuck, and in many cases, Luongo-suitor cities...
Here is what he said regarding long term contracts:


Quote:
“With a star player? Yeah. I mean, why not?” Tallon said. “We’ve got some of these coming. We don’t have them yet, but they’re on their way. When their [rookie] deals are up, yeah, we’ll look at it. I have no problem tying up our own. We build our own, we keep our own.”

“It’s a matter of what we have coming and blocking those people’s opportunities to succeed,” Tallon said when I asked him about his general philosophy on extreme long-term deals. “There’s no sense drafting all these kids and having no place for them to play. We have a plan in place to develop these young guys. We have depth at all positions now and we have to open up some space for these guys when they’re ready.”
Here is what he said about a Luongo trade:


Quote:
"I'm open to anything that makes sense as far as the Florida Panthers winning a Stanley Cup," Tallon said, "and we'll listen to anything possible."

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09-06-2012, 01:51 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
Maybe.
But I'd like to hear the Devils' fans pov on this...
How would Lou & co react, having forfeited a 1st and a 3rd, on top of $3M, to Kovy being unable to retire until 47 (or whatever it is..?)

I think it's extremely unlikely, given all the priorities and headaches theyre trying to iron out right now (supposedly), that they will add the extra complication of trying to retro-punish cheater contracts from years ago ....

but i could be wrong...
It would be hypocritical of the Devils to complain about the rules changing in such a way that it becomes harder to dump Kovy's contract off before it ends.

That was sort of the reason why these contracts were questionable in the first place. If you signed a player to a contract that neither party had any intention on fulfilling in the first place, you don't have much to stand on if the rules are changed in such a way to make it less desirable to have that player signed past when they plan to retire (or stop being a positive contributor to your team).

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09-06-2012, 03:37 PM
  #189
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http://www.theprovince.com/touch/spo...tml?id=7201195

Actions don't reflect a disgruntled goalie who will never play again for our team. Hmmmmm

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09-06-2012, 03:52 PM
  #190
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http://www.theprovince.com/touch/spo...tml?id=7201195

Actions don't reflect a disgruntled goalie who will never play again for our team. Hmmmmm
I will admit, him showing up for an event like that is a class act.

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09-06-2012, 04:15 PM
  #191
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Quote:
After it was reported Luongo will be in Vancouver next week, he tweeted:

"Get your popcorn ready! Gonna be lots of fun!"
If only that twitter account was actually Luongo. Or is it? Hey, he's as anonymous as we are. Sweet.


TOML

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Old
09-06-2012, 04:35 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
I suppose the better question is do Canucks fans feel like the offers will get better with time or worse?

While the CBA remains undecided to date, I think we can all conclusively agree that there is no way the cap is going up, an extremely best case scenario would be the cap staying the same, and the most likely being the cap going down.

If the cap does indeed end up dropping down the Canucks will end up losing what little leverage they had at this point.

It would be in their best interest to make a move sooner rather than later because I don't see the potential win outcome for Gillis in this situation?
2012 / 2013 $58 mill cap ~ No Rollback - Pretty much worst case scenario

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Chris Higgins ($1.900m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.025m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Dale Weise ($0.615m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m) / Andrew Ebbett ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
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Alexander Edler ($3.250m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.900m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
------
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(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $58,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,993,333; BONUSES: $310,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster):- $4,993,333

----------------------------------------------

This is pretty much worst case scenario...

Ballard off the team (buyout or trade?)
Malhotra off the team (buyout or trade?)
Have until Kesler gets back to trade Luongo - assuming LTIR works the same as now (unless long term injuries extend this even longer, which seems to happen frequently in Canuckland)... So, I assume at least around Christmas... In the meantime, Ebbett is in the line-up somewhere as well... I'm sure that with such a drastic reduction in cap space, plus no rollback, there will be pretty good opportunity to add a roster player in Ebbett's spot - if applicable...

Definitely hurts... but still should be a playoff team, IMO, given that basically the same roster (minus Ballard and Malhotra, and with Schneider full time - a real capable goaltender himself) was easily a playoff team last year...

How much of a cup contender depends on how screwed other teams are... I'd think the Canucks, while hurt, aren't as screwed as some other playoff-calibre teams / cup contenders would be... Such a reduction in cap, plus no rollback, would be devastating to a few teams, IMO...

Better get a goalie like Luongo to hopefully mask more than a few holes roster-wise! Maintain the playoff-calibre team that the fans expect... Best bang-for-the-buck $5.3 mill in cap space (in a $58 mill cap world, no rollback) money can buy! So, IMO, returns get better (in prospects and picks) than they do today... in this pretty much worst case scenario... Also, perhaps good opportunities for Luongo as well... with the chance to go to playoff-calibre teams, who are experiencing holes with this worst case scenario...

In no way though, do I think this worst case scenario happens... Canucks will be fine, IMO... But thanks for the concern... It is very much appreciated...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 09-06-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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Old
09-06-2012, 04:52 PM
  #193
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You and your fellow Canucks fans do realize Luongo is going to be traded for something like Matt Bradley, right?
Why? Because you think/said so?


Obligatory crystal ball joke.



But no seriously keep telling us how it is

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09-06-2012, 04:53 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by TOML View Post
If only that twitter account was actually Luongo. Or is it? Hey, he's as anonymous as we are. Sweet.


TOML
It's definitely Luongo, I honestly don't see a reason why people think it isn't.

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09-06-2012, 07:23 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by MillarWithASave View Post
It's definitely Luongo, I honestly don't see a reason why people think it isn't.
Like how it isn't verified? Or is it?

With that popcorn quote maybe it's T.O. pretending to be pretending to be Roberto Luongo.


TOML

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09-06-2012, 07:26 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by TOML View Post
Like how it isn't verified? Or is it?

With that popcorn quote maybe it's T.O. pretending to be pretending to be Roberto Luongo.


TOML
Are you just being contrary for the sake of being contrary? Or do you honestly not think it's Luongo?

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09-06-2012, 07:27 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by TOML View Post
Like how it isn't verified? Or is it?

With that popcorn quote maybe it's T.O. pretending to be pretending to be Roberto Luongo.


TOML


The fact that all the Canucks and Bob Mackenzie follow him is also pretty telling.

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09-06-2012, 07:36 PM
  #198
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Nobody is touching Luongo until a new CBA is in place. Makes for the most boring off season of my lifetime.

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09-06-2012, 07:53 PM
  #199
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According to Bruce Garrioch:

Quote:
Roberto Luongo told the Sun-Sentinal he wants to go to the Panthers. Believe Florida's last offer was two players more likely for buyout.
https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch/stat...58061219074048

Jovanovski and Upshall ?

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09-06-2012, 07:54 PM
  #200
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According to Bruce Garrioch:



https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch/stat...58061219074048

Jovanovski and Upshall ?
Where does he get that from?(about the buyout players)

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