Quine projection from RWC: Quine’s skating and skill level make him an interesting prospect, but he’s still learning how to be a complete player. He has the assets to be a useful NHL player, although the jury is still out on where he could one day fit into a big-league lineup. Either way, he’s coming off a strong season and could emerge as a top-10 or -20 scorer in the OHL in 2012-13.
Athanasiou Projection from RWC; Athanasiou slid from a potential top 15 pick a year before the 2012 draft all the way to the 110th spot, where the Red Wings drafted him. Although they’re not sure what he’ll be, they’re almost certain he’ll be an NHLer. They hope he’ll have a breakout year in the OHL in 2012-13 with London and prove he has learned his lesson from being a healthy scratch late in his draft year.
Like Wuest, I believe Athanasiou has Quine beat both ways: 1) More likely to be an NHLer with his skillset and 2) More likely to be an impact player with his skillset
If that's the case then Frk should be ahead of Pulkinnen, and Andersson shouldn't even be on our prospect list. You have to give some value to the fact that certain players are currently farther in their development, as well as their projected ceiling.
Worth pointing out in the AA(F) and Quine debate. Quine was once believed to have similar sky high ceiling. He was the former 2nd overall pick in the OHL. Guy has a lot of tools and the fact is since his trade he has rebounded in a big way. His goals are to get in the 90-100 point range this year. He might not have the frame this much I agree. But you want to talk about pure offensive potential and instincts and I think a lot of you guys are having the wrong argument. In addition he also has got a lot of praise for how far his defensive game has come. With another 10 or 15 lbs and some time in the AHL he could play a depth role.
In other words if AA (F) rebounds from his disappointing two years in the OHL after his draft day year like Quine just did we should start to get excited that he is finally getting it. In fact Quine was traded in his draft year and has really been a point a game player his whole time in Petersborough. He has had a big U18 for Canada. Point out the tool box, certainly size is a big factor, but AA doesn't really think the game all that well or use his teammates to date. He doesn't have better hands, passing, really even finishing at least not yet although that is closer. He also has shown far less defensive acumen. What a lot of you talk about him doing this season is that he will hopefully do what Quine has already done and remains to be seen.
If that's the case then Frk should be ahead of Pulkinnen, and Andersson shouldn't even be on our prospect list. You have to give some value to the fact that certain players are currently farther in their development, as well as their projected ceiling.
Not following you.
You're going to hold it against him that he hasn't had his post-draft year season yet?
You're going to hold it against him that he hasn't had his post-draft year season yet?
I'm not holding it against him. But he hasn't played it yet, so we can't make a judgement on it. We hope he has a season similar to what Quine did last year, so as of right now I go with Quine.
Worth pointing out in the AA(F) and Quine debate. Quine was once believed to have similar sky high ceiling. He was the former 2nd overall pick in the OHL. Guy has a lot of tools and the fact is since his trade he has rebounded in a big way. His goals are to get in the 90-100 point range this year. He might not have the frame this much I agree. But you want to talk about pure offensive potential and instincts and I think a lot of you guys are having the wrong argument. In addition he also has got a lot of praise for how far his defensive game has come. With another 10 or 15 lbs and some time in the AHL he could play a depth role.
In other words if AA (F) rebounds from his disappointing two years in the OHL after his draft day year like Quine just did we should start to get excited that he is finally getting it. In fact Quine was traded in his draft year and has really been a point a game player his whole time in Petersborough. He has had a big U18 for Canada. Point out the tool box, certainly size is a big factor, but AA doesn't really think the game all that well or use his teammates to date. He doesn't have better hands, passing, really even finishing at least not yet although that is closer. He also has shown far less defensive acumen. What a lot of you talk about him doing this season is that he will hopefully do what Quine has already done and remains to be seen.
The general tone from the Wings on Quine is "Interesting prospect. On the right path. Let's wait and see"
On Athanasioi: "With his skating, he's an NHLer. The question is, what kind of NHLer."
I'm not holding it against him. But he hasn't played it yet, so we can't make a judgement on it. We hope he has a season similar to what Quine did last year, so as of right now I go with Quine.
IMO, I think A2 beats AQ two ways.
1) More certain to make the NHL in some capacity.
2) more certain to make it in the NHL as an impact player.
Whether or not A2 matches Quine's year point total, when Quine got first line minutes on a crappy team and finished with another ugly minus total again, doesn't matter much to me. Quine's numbers were nice. But as far as OHL centers go, they weren't particularly good -- especially factoring in the +/-
What matters is that he continues to grow as a hockey player.
If A2 scores 30 goals and 20 assists and continues to improve, he didn't match Quine's point totals, but he remains the better prospect in my eyes.
The general tone from the Wings on Quine is "Interesting prospect. On the right path. Let's wait and see"
On Athanasioi: "With his skating, he's an NHLer. The question is, what kind of NHLer."
I hear a lot of nice things about Quine as well. NHL skating, is almost always compared to Helm, needs to put on 15 more lbs to really make that the case, but is getting bigger. He has an NHL heavy shot it is actually pretty nice. The best one though is he is an extremely hard worker and competes hard. I agree with all of these when I see him. I have a really hard time not seeing Quine's skating getting him to the NHL. His really bad OHL +/- numbers are from a terrible team. Would like to see those improve though otherwise I will question his two way play a little more. Never have found him terrible as far as positioning when I have seen him. A very good forechecker as well which is useful, just needs more weight to get more physical.
I hear a lot of nice things about Quine as well. NHL skating, is almost always compared to Helm, needs to put on 15 more lbs to really make that the case, but is getting bigger. He has an NHL heavy shot it is actually pretty nice. The best one though is he is an extremely hard worker and competes hard. I agree with all of these when I see him. I have a really hard time not seeing Quine's skating getting him to the NHL. His really bad OHL +/- numbers are from a terrible team. Would like to see those improve though otherwise I will question his two way play a little more. Never have found him terrible as far as positioning when I have seen him. A very good forechecker as well which is useful, just needs more weight to get more physical.
I've heard references to Helm. But the videos I've seen clearly show he's not the powerful skater Helm is. Nor does he match Athansiou in this department.
IMO, Quine looks a lot like a Corey Emmerton/McGrath type -- A really good Canadian junior player who will probably be a bubble player.
IMO, I think A2 beats AQ two ways.
1) More certain to make the NHL in some capacity.
2) more certain to make it in the NHL as an impact player.
Nah. Athanasiou is so far from the NHL at this point that positing #1 is putting the cart ahead of the horse, especially considering his flaws. I'd agree with #2 though, he has tools that indicate he has higher upside. Way too early to make a judgment on likelihood of being an NHLer though. I doubt either player has a significant NHL career.
Callahan and Lashoff are my picks - they have a legit case to make the NHL in whatever capacity within the next year - the rest are completely unproven hopefuls years away.
Wings don't have the greatest track record when picking goalies.
They managed to develop Howard, and Mrazak looks very promising.
Their track record with OHL forwards is probably even worse. There's Emmerton and Matthias then nothing but busts all the way back to '92 and Darren McCarty.
Nah. Athanasiou is so far from the NHL at this point that positing #1 is putting the cart ahead of the horse, especially considering his flaws. I'd agree with #2 though, he has tools that indicate he has higher upside. Way too early to make a judgment on likelihood of being an NHLer though. I doubt either player has a significant NHL career.
Personally, there are very few NHL prospects who I consider "surefire" NHLers. I'm just repeating what I've seen said by Red Wings' brass.
With AA, however, when I see him accelerate past the defense...and watch his stride, I see someone who looks like NHL material. I don't see that out of Quine, though there aren't a ton of telling videos about Quine out there.
Right now, A2 looks a lot like Val Filppula. I don't think he's got Filppula's hockey sense. But as he gets bigger and stronger, even if he never develops premier hockey sense, he's going to be a useful player.
Marchenko was the 7th round pick in his draft, and he is ahead of our 6th round pick, both 5th round picks, and 3rd round pick from his draft class.
Yes, but those players have had an opportunity to play games and move past or behind one another in the rankings since their draft. This last class has not.
Yes, but those players have had an opportunity to play games and move past or behind one another in the rankings since their draft. This last class has not.
Yeah but for only having 1 season after the draft year that is pretty impressive nonetheless.
Yeah but for only having 1 season after the draft year that is pretty impressive nonetheless.
Oh, I'm not saying it isn't impressive. I'm just supporting the notion that it's a little silly that this year's 4th rounder is blowing this year's 3rd rounder out of the water in # of votes, when neither has played a game since the draft. It's probably at least partly based on the idea that the Wings don't know how to draft goaltenders, but that's a silly notion as well, imo.
Oh, I'm not saying it isn't impressive. I'm just supporting the notion that it's a little silly that this year's 4th rounder is blowing this year's 3rd rounder out of the water in # of votes, when neither has played a game since the draft. It's probably at least partly based on the idea that the Wings don't know how to draft goaltenders, but that's a silly notion as well, imo.
I think it holds weight pretty well, the guy got drafted because he had a hot half of a season, and Osgood saw him a few times and liked him. I mean that's not really much to hang your hat on. Then factor in that drafting goalies is a crap shoot probably more so than any other position, and it's hard to justify rating one who was just drafted over other skaters.
Yes, but those players have had an opportunity to play games and move past or behind one another in the rankings since their draft. This last class has not.
Draft order isn't the be all and end all.
Marchenko, for example, was a 7th rounder in part, because he's Russian, and Russians are undervalued in the draft.
