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Old
08-29-2012, 04:02 AM
  #1
The Newfoundlander
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Edm-Tor

To Edm:
Joe Colborne,Cody Franson

To Tor:
Magnus Paajarvi,Colten Teubert, 3rd

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08-29-2012, 04:45 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
To Edm:
Joe Colborne,Cody Franson

To Tor:
Magnus Paajarvi,Colten Teubert, 3rd
Your kidding right. Franson is a unsigned RFA that is a 7th D on a bad defensive team and it's questionable if Colborne will ever make the NHL. You'll get flamed from Oiler fans for this one.

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08-29-2012, 04:51 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
To Edm:
Joe Colborne,Cody Franson

To Tor:
Magnus Paajarvi,Colten Teubert, 3rd
So we give up the best player in this deal and we are still adding a 3rd

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08-29-2012, 04:52 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Your kidding right. Franson is a unsigned RFA that is a 7th D on a bad defensive team and it's questionable if Colborne will ever make the NHL. You'll get flamed from Oiler fans for this one.
Because Paajarvi and Teubert are locks to make the NHL right? Franson wasn't #7 last year either, he played pretty well generally and was probably #4 or #5 last year. He just didn't get the playing time he deserved.

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08-29-2012, 04:54 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by supert View Post
So we give up the best player in this deal and we are still adding a 3rd
#notsureifserious. Franson is easily the best player in this deal.

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08-29-2012, 04:58 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Because Paajarvi and Teubert are locks to make the NHL right? Franson wasn't #7 last year either, he played pretty well generally and was probably #4 or #5 last year. He just didn't get the playing time he deserved.
Franson started out as the 7th D and only played because of injuries, it would be questionable if he would make the Oiler team as it stands now.

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08-29-2012, 05:02 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
#notsureifserious. Franson is easily the best player in this deal.
Uh, I'm pretty sure the jury is still out on that one there, chum.

I'd say this deal would be somewhat close without the Oilers adding the pick. Closer than Oilers fans might admit, but clearly the Oilers are giving away the better players... though it's not by much.

That being said, if the Oil are moving Pajaarvi/ Teubert in a package for an NHL-ready defenceman, they can probably do better than Franson. Having Colborne in a return package is completely redundant for the Oilers, he's not needed whatsoever in Edmonton, either now or in the future. It's a bad deal for them from an assets-management viewpoint as well.

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08-29-2012, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Franson started out as the 7th D and only played because of injuries, it would be questionable if he would make the Oiler team as it stands now.
lol. "Only played because of injuries", You should watch the Leafs before making false claims like that, Also have you seen the Oilers D? It's pretty horrible. Franson would be no worse then #5 on the Oilers right now and probably would be #4.

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08-29-2012, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
lol. "Only played because of injuries", You should watch the Leafs before making false claims like that, Also have you seen the Oilers D? It's pretty horrible. Franson would be no worse then #5 on the Oilers right now and probably would be #4.
So your saying Pylon Franson is better then N.Schultz, Smid, J.Schultz, Petry, and Whitney.

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08-29-2012, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Uh, I'm pretty sure the jury is still out on that one there, chum.

I'd say this deal would be somewhat close without the Oilers adding the pick. Closer than Oilers fans might admit, but clearly the Oilers are giving away the better players... though it's not by much.

That being said, if the Oil are moving Pajaarvi/ Teubert in a package for an NHL-ready defenceman, they can probably do better than Franson. Having Colborne in a return package is completely redundant for the Oilers, he's not needed whatsoever in Edmonton, either now or in the future. It's a bad deal for them from an assets-management viewpoint as well.
Franson is the most proven player in this deal, Therefore making him the best right now. Also how are the Oiler giving up the best players in this deal? Teubert is starting to look like a bust and Paajarvi has proven nothing pretty much.

Having said that Colborne hasn't proven anything either. But to say Colborne wouldn't be wanted in the future is foolish.

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08-29-2012, 05:19 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
So your saying Pylon Franson is better then N.Schultz, Smid, J.Schultz, Petry, and Whitney.
He's better then Petry, The jury is still out on J.Schultz too. J.Schultz is easily the most overrated prospect on this board, Hasn't played a game in the AHL yet, Let alone NHL.

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08-29-2012, 06:43 AM
  #12
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I just don't see how the Oilers are giving up the best player in the deal here.... Paajarvi is a guy who found his way to the NHL by virtue of being on a terrible team that left roster space open for all it's high draft picks, failed, and found his way back to the AHL. Teubert appears to be a journeyman defenceman that might find his way onto a full time spot in Edmonton, simply because their depth on defence is so poor.

Franson is a legitimate NHL defenceman who's capable of playing close to 20 minutes a night and putting up around 30 points on a team's 2nd powerplay unit.

Obviously he didn't do that with the Leafs this year, but what most seem to ignore is that the Leafs blueline was deeper than most give credit for last year. You had relatively proven top 4 guys in Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Liles, Komisarek, & Schenn, plus a standout rookie in Jake Gardiner. Somebody's gotta be the odd man out, and when you have relatively 1-dimensional guys like Liles / Gardiner occupying spots on your 2nd and 3rd pairs, their ideal partners are the 1 dimensional physical guys in Komisarek & Schenn. They just couldn't get playing well under Ron Wilson's no-defence style of play.

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08-29-2012, 06:43 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
He's better then Petry, The jury is still out on J.Schultz too. J.Schultz is easily the most overrated prospect on this board, Hasn't played a game in the AHL yet, Let alone NHL.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtjUc5GXY3E

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08-29-2012, 07:28 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Franson is the most proven player in this deal, Therefore making him the best right now. Also how are the Oiler giving up the best players in this deal? Teubert is starting to look like a bust and Paajarvi has proven nothing pretty much.

Having said that Colborne hasn't proven anything either. But to say Colborne wouldn't be wanted in the future is foolish.
Paajarvi had a very good rookie season. He scored 15 goals in his first year on NA ice and showed that he is very good defensively.

When the Oilers signed Smyth, Paajarvi was the guy that took the hit. No doubt he struggled offensively, but still proved to be very good defensively. When he was sent down to the AHL he had a slow start but once he was familiar with the system, played quite well in his first trip. Then when he was recalled for a short stint and again played well for the short time he was back up.

During the playoffs Paajarvi was the Barons' best player. There were several games when he was quite dominant. He actually showed a physical component to his game as well.

He is 6'3" 210lbs. He is a great skater, has a good shot, and is a much better playmaker than most give him credit for. And he has just turned 21. There is no chance that the Oilers are ready to give up on him. Certainly not for Cody Franson, a guy who despite all you protestations would be at best a 3rd pairing defensemen this year but probably would be a #7 on the Oilers.

You can claim Franson is better than Petry all you want. All this does is to suggest that you have not seen Petry play, that you know little about the Oilers. He certainly does not play ahead of Smid, Whitney or N. Schulz. So he is on the third pairing.

Cleary the plan is to give J. Schultz plenty of time to prove himself. He will get sheltered minutes at ES and pp time with the kids. He is an important investment for this team so hsi development will be a priority.

The Oilers also have Taylor Fedun as a right handed offensive dman. He would likely have made the team last year but for his devastating injury. From the looks of things a Perry Pearns 3 vs 3 camp, he is agin skating very well. THis kid has tremendous hockey sense, is a great skater, has a big shot and despite the fact that he is on the smaller side has a very good defensive game. THis kid is a sleeper who most people on these boards have never even heard of.

The Oilers will also want a physical component on the defense as well which means:
1) Sutton---He played very well in his given role, when he was not suspended.
2) Peckham ---He had an excellent year in 2010-2011, but suffered a concussion in a fight that set him back a lot. He struggled last year at ES, but is still an excellent pk'er. Clearly, the new coach wants to see if he can regain the physical component of his game. (If they added Franson, Peckham might have to be wiaved and would likely be claimed.)
3) Teubert---Not sure why you call him a bust. He was probably one of OKC's most important players. He is a good skater, has very good mobility, a big shot, and unlike Franson, he is astough as nails and will not hesitate to go to battle for e teammate. He is also only 22 years old and has another year on his ELC. Teubert saw a fair bit of action last year, he did struggle at times, but on the whole played quite well despite being recalled when the Oiler's defense was badly injury riddled. Kid looks like a future solid third pairing guy to me with the potential to be a 2nd pairing shutdown guy.

One of these three ione s probably going to be playing on most nights simply because of the physical aspect of their game. So what you have is little room on this team for Cody Franson right now and even less once some of their best prospects start showing up.

As for Colborne, people in Edmonton know Colborne quite well as he played in the AJHL. If he played with heart he could be a valuable addition to the Oilers. But he typically does not. The kid has lots of skills but has yet to show that he can take advantage of them. He is big, which the Oilers need, but he plays small, so is of lttle value to the Oilers. They already have a project like this in Ryan Martindale. Right now Colborne is better of course, but not by so much as to make the Oilers want to trade Paajarvi for Franson.


Last edited by spiny norman: 08-29-2012 at 10:18 AM. Reason: not needed
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Old
08-29-2012, 07:35 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
Having said that Colborne hasn't proven anything either. But to say Colborne wouldn't be wanted in the future is foolish.
Not foolish at all, AND I said he wouldn't be NEEDED, not "wanted". If the Oilers goal is to upgrade their defence, why would they waste their "return value" in a trade on another forward? I didn't mention anything about Colborne's value or projection as an NHLer, I was strictly saying that for a team so overloaded with young forwards, it makes little sense for them to actively seek out more of them in return for a guy they picked 10th overall (who, admittedly, is not offering decent return on that investment at the moment).

My point was, and still stands: if the Oilers are going to make a move for a defenceman, they need to put all their eggs in one basket and get one good defenceman in a return for their assets. "Splitting up the value" they get in return makes little sense. Colborne may have a nice career, but he wouldn't fit into Edmonton's plans at all. He would be redundant for THEM. That's no knock against Colborne, but for a team who was considering trading down in this past draft to select a defenceman, or taking Murphy outright... adding yet ANOTHER young forward to their stable makes absolutely zero sense. They need a defenceman that has "the value of Colborne AND Franson".

Edmonton needs to be all-in for a defenceman, and not bothering with proposals that try to add forwards to help "even out a deal" because the defenceman being offered isn't up to par / what they really need going forwards.

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08-29-2012, 07:59 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I just don't see how the Oilers are giving up the best player in the deal here.... Paajarvi is a guy who found his way to the NHL by virtue of being on a terrible team that left roster space open for all it's high draft picks, failed, and found his way back to the AHL. Teubert appears to be a journeyman defenceman that might find his way onto a full time spot in Edmonton, simply because their depth on defence is so poor.

Franson is a legitimate NHL defenceman who's capable of playing close to 20 minutes a night and putting up around 30 points on a team's 2nd powerplay unit.

Obviously he didn't do that with the Leafs this year, but what most seem to ignore is that the Leafs blueline was deeper than most give credit for last year. You had relatively proven top 4 guys in Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Liles, Komisarek, & Schenn, plus a standout rookie in Jake Gardiner. Somebody's gotta be the odd man out, and when you have relatively 1-dimensional guys like Liles / Gardiner occupying spots on your 2nd and 3rd pairs, their ideal partners are the 1 dimensional physical guys in Komisarek & Schenn. They just couldn't get playing well under Ron Wilson's no-defence style of play.
The Oilers defense is not so different than what you presented above. You have Whitney, Smid and N. Schultz vs Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, and Liles. Petry is the rookie who had a standout year. BUt unlike Gardiner form last year Petry is more of an alround dman with a pretty decent physical game. So right now we have both teams top four being pretty much determined.

If the Oilers want to give J. Schultz time then Franson would sit as he is not the right guy to pair Schultz with at ES.

Your assessment of Paajarvi is not accurate. The Oilers team was not strong but they had pretty solid wingers in Paajarvi's first season with Hemsky, Hall, Eberle and Penner all looking to be top 4. Paajarvi had a great preseason. He was better than either of Hall or Eberle. And he actually had a very good rookie year with 15 goals and 34 points playimng thrid line minutes with little pp time. He struggled in his second year. But by theend of the tear was playing extremely well in thge AHL. He is the most valuable asset in this deal becuase at this point his upside is certainly more than what Franson brings to the table.

Franson is at best 3rd pairing offensive dman on almost any team.

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08-29-2012, 08:02 AM
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No thanks from the Leafs. We rather have Colborne than MPS and we also rather have Franson than Teubert.

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08-29-2012, 08:52 AM
  #18
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lol. "Only played because of injuries", You should watch the Leafs before making false claims like that, Also have you seen the Oilers D? It's pretty horrible. Franson would be no worse then #5 on the Oilers right now and probably would be #4.
I have seen the Oilers D. It played better than the Leafs D last year. I see the Leafs all the time. Their D is worse. (Example: EDM 239 GA, TOR 264 GA, 2nd worst in the league.)

Quote:
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Franson is the most proven player in this deal, Therefore making him the best right now. Also how are the Oiler giving up the best players in this deal? Teubert is starting to look like a bust and Paajarvi has proven nothing pretty much.

Having said that Colborne hasn't proven anything either. But to say Colborne wouldn't be wanted in the future is foolish.
We have plenty of young depth on D. Colborne would be just another one. I agree he has potential, and would at worst be a tradeable asset, but that is hardly a compelling case for making the deal.

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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
He's better then Petry, The jury is still out on J.Schultz too. J.Schultz is easily the most overrated prospect on this board, Hasn't played a game in the AHL yet, Let alone NHL.
The only way Franson is better than Petry is in the height department. J. Schultz would not be so easily dismissed if he had signed with the Leafs I am sure.

Teubert was a depth D for us, and is not expected to play nearly as much this year. He's still young and has a chance to improve. Franson would be the same; depth D that hopefully will not play much. The difference between Teubert and Franson is not MPS. The 3rd and Colborne are nearly a wash, so that is essentially the deal.

Your proposal is bad, and you should feel bad.

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08-29-2012, 09:11 AM
  #19
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Your kidding right. Franson is a unsigned RFA that is a 7th D on a bad defensive team and it's questionable if Colborne will ever make the NHL. You'll get flamed from Oiler fans for this one.
OK buddy. I know it's a bad deal but let's not over exaggerate.

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08-29-2012, 09:30 AM
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Firstly, i dont see anything in PRV. Hes not a piece on a stanley cup winning team (not saying the peices going to edmonton are either). I see Colborne and Franson as players with pottential to be large contributors to their future teams with good development. I cant comment on Teubert.

Either way id prefer to see how colborne and Franson pan out. Either way i have a hunch that franson is headed to vancouver for luongo, which is why he isnt signed.

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08-29-2012, 09:36 AM
  #21
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I have seen the Oilers D. It played better than the Leafs D last year. I see the Leafs all the time. Their D is worse. (Example: EDM 239 GA, TOR 264 GA, 2nd worst in the league.)

We have plenty of young depth on D. Colborne would be just another one. I agree he has potential, and would at worst be a tradeable asset, but that is hardly a compelling case for making the deal.

:
I'm guessing you don't know much about Joe Colborne if you don't think hes anything different than "another young depth defensman."

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08-29-2012, 09:37 AM
  #22
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So your saying Pylon Franson is better then N.Schultz, Smid, J.Schultz, Petry, and Whitney.
Kid hasn't even played a game yet! Remember the hype on Matt Gilroy? isn't Schultz something like 170 pounds? So yes Franson is better at this point than J. Schultz and even N. Schultz. I honestly don't know why he sat so much last year, I thought he played good when he was in. Never base the talent level of a player on Leafs managements decisions regarding said player .

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08-29-2012, 09:40 AM
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Kid hasn't even played a game yet! Remember the hype on Matt Gilroy? isn't Schultz something like 170 pounds? So yes Franson is better at this point than J. Schultz and even N. Schultz. I honestly don't know why he sat so much last year, I thought he played good when he was in. Never base the talent level of a player on Leafs managements decisions regarding said player .
Even if Franson is better (which at this point is fairly certain), Edmonton would probably prefer to play Schutlz anyway, given their team situation.

I think their D is set for middling guys like Franson, they need a top pairing guy.

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08-29-2012, 10:12 AM
  #24
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I don't know why the Leafs would want to trade away a centre, which is their weakest position in terms of prospects.

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08-29-2012, 10:24 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by weak5holeguy View Post
#notsureifserious. Franson is easily the best player in this deal.
Haha Franson Never lived up to his potential the best playerS in this are Paajarvi and Colbourne maybe giving the edge to paajarvi because of his expierience your just another fan over valuing a Toronto player(Franson)

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