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2012-2013 Lockout Discussion Thread (Part II)

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Old
09-17-2012, 07:12 PM
  #651
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*****y, whiny billionaire owners arguing with *****y, whiny millionaire players. They can all go to hell!

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09-17-2012, 07:18 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
*****y, whiny billionaire owners arguing with *****y, whiny millionaire players. They can all go to hell!
Talk is cheap. Don't pay for tickets. Don't but jerseys or merchandise if/when this is settled.

I haven't been to a game or bought Rangers merchandise since the start of the last lockout.

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09-17-2012, 07:20 PM
  #653
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One good thing to come out a full or partial season cancellation -- NHL'ers are guaranteed to be in Sochi and beyond.

One bad thing to come out of a full or partial season cancellation -- the 2013 WJC will somehow find a way to beat out the last four or five WJC's combined as the most annoying, over-publicized, over-marketed hockey event in world history. And it's in Ufa, no less.

Canadians will treat that garbage like the Normandy landings.

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Old
09-17-2012, 07:27 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Talk is cheap. Don't pay for tickets. Don't but jerseys or merchandise if/when this is settled.

I haven't been to a game or bought Rangers merchandise since the start of the last lockout.
Exactly.

What always shocks me is how people go back. I know pro sports is a temporary escape from the realities of life for a lot (if not all) of us, but I always wonder how a person keeps going back and back and back again after years lying, backstabbing and pilfering. I'm talking mainly about the middle-class full or partial STH's.

I guess it's like a girl who stays with her man despite cheating and abuse. They feel like there's nowhere else to go. The same can be said about pro sports fans. Just look at the fiasco in Penn State.

It's unfair that for every Cal Ripken or Adam Graves, there are hundreds of A-Rods and Carmelo Anthonys or John Caliparis.

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09-17-2012, 07:33 PM
  #655
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IMO, that's why guys like Gretzky and Jordan (curse his soul) and Mattingly to me were special, because they really were worth the price of a ticket.

This day and age, who the hell is worth a 300-dollar ticket? A-Rod? the Knicks? Brad Richards?

Maybe it's because I'm married, got two mortgages and two kids, but you couldnt drag me to a present-day pro sporting event if you kidnapped me.

In 1991, 20 bucks was tip money from bussing tables for one day. That money would buy me a round trip token, a bleacher seat at the Stadium, a hot dog and beer, and a program.

Those days are dead and buried.

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Old
09-17-2012, 07:42 PM
  #656
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Exactly.
The little recourse I have is to not give them my money. I know makes little to no difference but that's my way of expressing myself. I have done the same thing with the Mets for the last two seasons. The only team I actively support is the Giants because my family has had season tickets for half a decade. And I have no issue with the way ownership conducts their business.

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09-17-2012, 08:36 PM
  #657
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I feel like boycotting the league after the fact is being overly dramatic. I mean, hey, if you're pissed off at these guys and want to act on it, that's your prerogative. If you think, somehow, that it's speaking with your wallet, fine. Comparisons to abusive husbands are, frankly, absurd. In the end, hockey and the New York Rangers are more important to me than how the parties involved in these negotiations are acting. I think the shock that GWOW is feeling is more a lack of understanding that most people who say what pwoz said are lashing out in the heat of the moment. So, as I said, who cares how the players act? The game and the team are what's important and they will come back. I'm not going to throw a tantrum and stomp on the floor when it's taken away for a relatively short period of time, which even one season falls into the category of. The league isn't going to shut down. The Rangers aren't going to go away. So we might miss some time. Boohoo.

On a separate note, I also have never understood this whole "players are being greedy" sort of thing. As if the general principles, in this case solely, of being a man somehow get thrown out the window. Somehow, having money in the pocket means you no longer should be sticking up for your pride as a human being. Having money in your pocket means you should be willing to let your employer walk all over you. Having money in your pocket means you no longer need to worry about protecting the money in your pocket. All of that is nonsense.


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Old
09-17-2012, 08:40 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I haven't been to a game or bought Rangers merchandise since the start of the last lockout.
You're trying to say that because of the last lockout you purposely have not bought tickets to any games in protest of the NHL, and no other reasons?

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Old
09-17-2012, 08:42 PM
  #659
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You're trying to say that because of the last lockout you purposely have not bought tickets to any games in protest of the NHL, and no other reasons?
That's exactly what I'm saying. Do I think it makes a difference? No way. But I work hard for what money I have and I choose not to give them any of it.

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09-17-2012, 08:51 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's exactly what I'm saying. Do I think it makes a difference? No way. But I work hard for what money I have and I choose not to give them any of it.
So it has nothing to do with tickets being very pricey and perhaps an inability to either afford them or not want to pay that much for them?

Not trying to troll you at all, but I find it hard to believe your moral stance on this subject has to do with being bitter and or angry at the NHL for the last lockout seven years ago.

If so, I applaud you for having the ability to hold out from going to games, to make your point. Kudos.

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09-17-2012, 08:54 PM
  #661
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So it has nothing to do with tickets being very pricey and perhaps an inability to either afford them or not want to pay that much for them?

Not trying to troll you at all, but I find it hard to believe your moral stance on this subject has to do with being bitter and or angry at the NHL for the last lockout seven years ago.

If so, I applaud you for having the ability to hold out from going to games, to make your point. Kudos.
No I can certainly afford tickets.

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Old
09-17-2012, 08:56 PM
  #662
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No I can certainly afford tickets.
Where do you stand on going to a game if the tickets were free?

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Old
09-17-2012, 09:00 PM
  #663
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Where do you stand on going to a game if the tickets were free?
I'd probably go. It's not my money and the money for the tickets has already been spent.

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09-17-2012, 09:05 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's exactly what I'm saying. Do I think it makes a difference? No way. But I work hard for what money I have and I choose not to give them any of it.
I cant remember the last time I paid out of pocket to go to a game. I usually go to a few per year, but its usually company tickets, etc.

I think the last time I bought merchandise was when I was about 12.

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Old
09-17-2012, 09:16 PM
  #665
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I cant remember the last time I paid out of pocket to go to a game. I usually go to a few per year, but its usually company tickets, etc.

I think the last time I bought merchandise was when I was about 12.
Granted not buying merchandise is hardly a sacrifice as I too have not bought merch probably since the Cup team.

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Old
09-17-2012, 09:28 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Granted not buying merchandise is hardly a sacrifice as I too have not bought merch probably since the Cup team.
They get a few bucks from me because I contribute to the television ratings, I suppose, but what're you gonna do? I dont think I could ever completely walk away from the game under any circumstances.

I just never viewed going to the games and, especially, buying merchandise as some sort of important factor to being a fan.

Even more importantly, Im not against a league getting more revenue. But when that revenue just gets argued about and NONE of it goes to bettering the fan experience, that really rubs me the wrong way. The NHL, its commissioner, its owners, and its players have taken advantage of their loyal fanbase for far, far too long. The only thing that will change it is choking off the dollars. Kudos to you for taking those steps. Theres plenty of room still left on the bandwagon.

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09-17-2012, 09:42 PM
  #667
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I don't live in NYC, so I can't go to games. I don't buy much merchandise, Jerseys cost too much. I got other stuff to spend my cash on that bring me joy and don't pull this crap

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Old
09-17-2012, 10:21 PM
  #668
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I always thought the best way to get back at these rich jerks fighting over OUR money is to lock ourselves out. Give them a season of little to no fans. I bet they never lockout or strike again.

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Old
09-17-2012, 11:28 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Granted not buying merchandise is hardly a sacrifice as I too have not bought merch probably since the Cup team.
you and my dad would probably get along

but i agree to an extent. im perfectly happy with going to 2-3 games a year as birthday/xmas presents and having one jersey (also an xmas present)

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09-18-2012, 12:25 AM
  #670
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I'd just like to watch some hockey. I won't be boycotting, or protesting, because it's really not about me, or any of the fans. The owners want more money, and the players don't want to take a paycut. It's got nothing to do with the fans.

I side with the players, but it's not like the owners are trying to rip me off. They're trying to make money. The players are trying to keep their salary the same. I'm not really offended. Yeah, I want hockey. I really want to watch hockey. But these guys are fighting about their lively hood, it's not about us.

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09-18-2012, 06:29 AM
  #671
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So what is really preventing a quick agreement?

Ist it really mostly the players percentage of revenue? I thought, after the league went back to current HRR calculations and the players finally departing from their 57% that they could come to terms on that. With the league saying they'd be open to negotiating the transition, I'd think the outline of the final deal is pretty obvious: Keep the cap at status quo until revenue catches up and then split the revenue at around 50/50.

What about the other points? What's the latest on ELC length, UFA age and salary arbitration? What about fixing the cap circumventing contracts? If the PA doesn't like contract length limititations, why not simply use the real salary as the cap number for all new contracts? What's the latest on players in the minors counting against the cap?

Sorry for so many questions

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09-18-2012, 08:20 AM
  #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
So what is really preventing a quick agreement?

Ist it really mostly the players percentage of revenue? I thought, after the league went back to current HRR calculations and the players finally departing from their 57% that they could come to terms on that. With the league saying they'd be open to negotiating the transition, I'd think the outline of the final deal is pretty obvious: Keep the cap at status quo until revenue catches up and then split the revenue at around 50/50.

What about the other points? What's the latest on ELC length, UFA age and salary arbitration? What about fixing the cap circumventing contracts? If the PA doesn't like contract length limititations, why not simply use the real salary as the cap number for all new contracts? What's the latest on players in the minors counting against the cap?

Sorry for so many questions
I think pride is hurting an agreement. Now it's a waiting game on who caves in first. Instead of just ironing out a resolution, pride is getting in the way imo

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09-18-2012, 08:46 AM
  #673
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I think pride is hurting an agreement. Now it's a waiting game on who caves in first. Instead of just ironing out a resolution, pride is getting in the way imo
Yeah, that's the feeling I have as well. And I think it's particularly stupid on the players' side. They now have at least some leverage, as the owners would certainly want to avoid losing any games. But once the first games are canceled, the missing paychecks are going to hurt the players much more than the owners losing even more games.

The league moved quite a bit in the last week before the lockout. I think now the players could get the best deal. But they're basically doing nothing, they aren't presenting a counter-proposal, hell they aren't even talking really.

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09-18-2012, 08:49 AM
  #674
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
They get a few bucks from me because I contribute to the television ratings, I suppose, but what're you gonna do? I dont think I could ever completely walk away from the game under any circumstances.

I just never viewed going to the games and, especially, buying merchandise as some sort of important factor to being a fan.

Even more importantly, Im not against a league getting more revenue. But when that revenue just gets argued about and NONE of it goes to bettering the fan experience, that really rubs me the wrong way. The NHL, its commissioner, its owners, and its players have taken advantage of their loyal fanbase for far, far too long. The only thing that will change it is choking off the dollars. Kudos to you for taking those steps. Theres plenty of room still left on the bandwagon.
They get bucks from me because I have no choice but to get Cablevision.

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Old
09-18-2012, 08:54 AM
  #675
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The league moved quite a bit in the last week before the lockout. I think now the players could get the best deal. But they're basically doing nothing, they aren't presenting a counter-proposal, hell they aren't even talking really.
Don Fehr thinks this is major league baseball and the owners are hiding hundreds of millions of dollars. He is sorely mistaken

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