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2012-2013 Lockout Discussion Thread (Part II)

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Old
09-19-2012, 04:44 PM
  #776
NYRFAN218
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@KatieStrangESPN: #CBA NHL has canceled all pre-season games through September 30th

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Old
09-19-2012, 04:48 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
@KatieStrangESPN: #CBA NHL has canceled all pre-season games through September 30th
Its real now...and what a **** show it is.

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Old
09-19-2012, 05:11 PM
  #778
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Its real now...and what a **** show it is.
Your surprised by this?

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Old
09-19-2012, 05:11 PM
  #779
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****ing idiots learned nothing from 2004-2005.

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Old
09-19-2012, 05:24 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
I think that gets lost along the way. Fehr does not have a history of getting bent over in these. In fact, he has always done well for his constituents. Which is why the NHL has hired him. Make no mistake, he has the players drinking the same kool-aid, from the same trough.

This time around, there are LOTS of teams that will loose money. This is not last time, when not playing means loosing less money. I am not saying that the owners break, but my guess is that when this gets done, it will be much closer to center. As to when, well, that is anyone's guess. However, if the owners think that they will get Fehr to blink by canceling the season, they are sadly mistaken. And when teams like Tampa Bay and Buffalo begin to loose real money, there will be enormous pressure placed on Bettman.
I think people are putting way too much stock into Fehr's abilities. Who is he and what he did in other sports doesn't change the reality that currently exists in these negotiations for this sport. Of course they're all drinking the kool-aid right now, nobody has lost a dollar yet. Once the top tier guys are getting millions of dollars to play hockey internationally while everyone else is losing their primary source of income, we'll see just how good that kool-aid tastes.

The owners don't need to get Fehr to blink - he represents the players and they need to get them to blink. They will do so by canceling a season. There are a lot more of them and they are all in different economic circumstances; some are early in a career and don't have a nest egg, some are late in their careers and are depending on those last few checks, some can't afford to not play hockey without changing their lifestyles, and some of them have tens of millions of dollars in the bank and will make at least a million more this year playing in another country. Fehr being whatever superstar of negotiations people make him out to be doesn't change that.

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09-19-2012, 06:39 PM
  #781
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They will do so by canceling a season.
I think that you are overestimating the so-called solidarity by the owners. Unlike last time, this time around, they ARE going to loose money. Not just the big market teams, but the small market teams as well. As for Fehr, I am not overestimating him in thinking that he will lead the players to victory. However, he is not like the past union leaders. They do drink his kool aid. And they will not blink with a lost season. All I am saying is that he is not going to get bent over like the past NHLPA leaders have.

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Old
09-19-2012, 06:42 PM
  #782
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I just really got back into hockey last year (since the last lockout), now this **** again.

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Old
09-19-2012, 06:59 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
I think that you are overestimating the so-called solidarity by the owners. Unlike last time, this time around, they ARE going to loose money. Not just the big market teams, but the small market teams as well. As for Fehr, I am not overestimating him in thinking that he will lead the players to victory. However, he is not like the past union leaders. They do drink his kool aid. And they will not blink with a lost season. All I am saying is that he is not going to get bent over like the past NHLPA leaders have.
Fair enough. I disagree with you but I do see your logic. One of the really interesting parts of this whole mess is that there are a lot of ways that it could turn out that all make sense at this point. I just wish they'd start working toward something.

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Old
09-19-2012, 07:37 PM
  #784
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Henrik Lundqvist ‏@HLundqvist30
My plan right now is to stay in NY for a few weeks to practice. If this drags on I might go home and see friends and family back in Sweden.

....

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Old
09-19-2012, 07:43 PM
  #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
I think that you are overestimating the so-called solidarity by the owners. Unlike last time, this time around, they ARE going to loose money. Not just the big market teams, but the small market teams as well. As for Fehr, I am not overestimating him in thinking that he will lead the players to victory. However, he is not like the past union leaders. They do drink his kool aid. And they will not blink with a lost season. All I am saying is that he is not going to get bent over like the past NHLPA leaders have.
I respectfully disagree. How will the small market teams lose money with a lockout? The league has record revenues but the way they are distributed is extremely lopsided - Forbes reported that 18 of the 30 NHL teams are losing money. Even if that number is off a bit, when roughly half of your league is better off financially with the doors closed and marginal costs saved, there are issues with your system. And whether they are just or not in doing so, the owners will be united in fighting for what they see as necessary.

I don't care who is leading the PA, the players will ultimately blink first. While many owners view the NHL as a serious business, many others consider it a hobby (or an afterthought in the case of Mr. Dolan). For the players, hockey is their livelihood. Sure, the stars will get paid abroad but the other 2/3s of the league will be pretty antsy after a year of no income. Unfortunately for the players they are not in the NFL, do not have the entire nation is up in arms, and do not have the president issuing statements about their lockout; they don't have nearly as much collective leverage as they think they do. It will be a real shame if they decide to lose an entire year's worth of earnings (or more) to be reminded of this.

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Old
09-19-2012, 07:50 PM
  #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
....
Also:

Quote:
Henrik Lundqvist ‏@HLundqvist30 Trying to keep myself busy during the lockout, I'm so disappointed that we are in this mess.. Thought for sure we would have a deal by now.
Really respect the way Hank has handled this. Shows that he is 100% about hockey. Not that anyone should be surprised.

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Old
09-19-2012, 08:21 PM
  #787
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There's something very wrong with this picture...


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Old
09-19-2012, 08:33 PM
  #788
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All Hail The King! I have no problem with him keeping his game up in Frolunda, I'm sure they'd take him back as long as he'd be able to play. Being top goalie in the world has to have some perks!

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Old
09-19-2012, 08:40 PM
  #789
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over on another board i frequent it was pointed out that if Jaromir Jagr didn't have those 3 years in the KHL, and if we didn't have the lockout season, he'd be #2 all time in points...

i did the math, if he had a downward trajectory those 3 years of 66, 61, and 59 points (just a rough guesstimation), AND if during the lockout we had actually played hockey and he put up 82 points, he'd be, in fact, the #2 point scorer of all time...thats pretty remarkable.

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Old
09-19-2012, 09:23 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
over on another board i frequent it was pointed out that if Jaromir Jagr didn't have those 3 years in the KHL, and if we didn't have the lockout season, he'd be #2 all time in points...

i did the math, if he had a downward trajectory those 3 years of 66, 61, and 59 points (just a rough guesstimation), AND if during the lockout we had actually played hockey and he put up 82 points, he'd be, in fact, the #2 point scorer of all time...thats pretty remarkable.
pretty remarkable and also pretty sad that he didn't get to realize that milestone in the NHL, imo.

i sometimes think that perhaps if there was never a lockout, he would have never tasted the KHL and never bolted for those years.

I respect and appreciate what he did for the Rangers and would've loved to see the man break some more records. but then i tell myself that it was in the end his decision, a decision that still boggles my mind, especially now that he decided to return.

most people can't deny that he's a top twenty forward of all time. would've been nice, from a jagr fan's perspective, to have cemented a top ten or top five legacy. i still think he doesn't get the respect he deserves. and also to jam it down the throats of Pittsburgh fans who took their vitriol to a whole other level when he decided to leave them. an ugly departure no doubt, but he did so much for that organization and the boo birds were pretty classless imo.

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Old
09-19-2012, 09:24 PM
  #791
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Really good and fair article:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--nh...g-returns.html

I just hope above all else the two sides find a way to work together with as little input from their egos as possible. As unrealistic as that may be.

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Old
09-19-2012, 09:32 PM
  #792
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Owner biggest problem: They did so well on the last go around that they will overstay their position looking for the same result.

Players biggest problem: They have a "superstar" leader who will inspire confidence with the rank and file who will be able to take them down a road they traveled before.

The fans biggest problem: They are taken for granted.

Me: looking for a Jan start. The Holiday season might be the time for everyone to sober up? I believe the New Year's game will have to be cancelled for everyone to understand the seriousness of the lockout.

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Old
09-19-2012, 09:37 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Owner biggest problem: They did so well on the last go around that they will overstay their position looking for the same result.

Players biggest problem: They have a "superstar" leader who will inspire confidence with the rank and file who will be able to take them down a road they traveled before.

The fans biggest problem: They are taken for granted.

Me: looking for a Jan start. The Holiday season might be the time for everyone to sober up? I believe the New Year's game will have to be cancelled for everyone to understand the seriousness of the lockout.
The fans biggest problem: They keep feeding the machine

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Old
09-19-2012, 09:57 PM
  #794
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The fans biggest problem: They keep feeding the machine
Exactly.

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Old
09-19-2012, 10:04 PM
  #795
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The fans biggest problem: They keep feeding the machine
And not just peanuts.

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Old
09-20-2012, 12:30 AM
  #796
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The fans biggest problem: They keep feeding the machine
Not this fan. F-ck the NHL and everything that comes with it. If more than a month of the regular season is lost, i will not spend another dime on this sh-t show of a leauge for as long as i live.

I will watch games, but the leauge will not receive a single dollar out of my pocket ever again.

Really wish enough fans would do the same.

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Old
09-20-2012, 01:50 AM
  #797
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Not this fan. F-ck the NHL and everything that comes with it. If more than a month of the regular season is lost, i will not spend another dime on this sh-t show of a leauge for as long as i live.

I will watch games, but the leauge will not receive a single dollar out of my pocket ever again.

Really wish enough fans would do the same.
Unless you are a recent convert to the sport and have started to go to games regularly or are a long time fan who stops going to games, the NHL will be just fine without you. Unlike baseball, basketball and (especially) football, the vast majority of revenue comes from ticket sales.

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Old
09-20-2012, 02:07 AM
  #798
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I have two questions about players going to the AHL. Hoping someone can help me out.

Is it true that any player on an entry level contract can be assigned to the AHL? I read in a column by Pierre LeBrun on ESPN that players such as Eberle, Skinner, Nugent-Hopkins and Couturier have been assigned to the AHL.

The second question is do they have to go? I guess getting an AHL salary would be nice but I can't believe someone like Jeff Skinner, who has played two full seasons in the NHL, would be thrilled about the idea.

Thanks.

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Old
09-20-2012, 06:57 AM
  #799
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Originally Posted by pavelich View Post
I have two questions about players going to the AHL. Hoping someone can help me out.

Is it true that any player on an entry level contract can be assigned to the AHL? I read in a column by Pierre LeBrun on ESPN that players such as Eberle, Skinner, Nugent-Hopkins and Couturier have been assigned to the AHL.

The second question is do they have to go? I guess getting an AHL salary would be nice but I can't believe someone like Jeff Skinner, who has played two full seasons in the NHL, would be thrilled about the idea.

Thanks.
Not everyone who is on an ELC. Hagelin is on an ELC but isn't eligible. It has to do with the waiver rules, which I can't cite of the top of my head. You can look it up in the CBA if you're interested.

As to whether they have to go, I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think they do. Several years ago the Rangers wanted to send Prucha down to work on his game, but he refused the assignment. I believe the Rangers could have fined him for that, or even terminated his contract, but they didn't. And I can't imagine any team would cause a stink if any player refused to report to the AHL during the lockout. I'm sure the NHLPA would have something to say if they did, and they don't need any more things to fight about right now.

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Old
09-20-2012, 08:27 AM
  #800
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@DarrenDreger: NHL and PA talked yesterday. Both sides heading to Edmonton for Labor Board hearing Friday am. No CBA meetings scheduled today or tomorrow.

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