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2012-2013 Lockout Discussion Thread (Part II)

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Old
09-07-2012, 02:45 PM
  #76
RangerBoy
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The NHL losing another season because of a labor issue is a little too much. The players have never made more money than they are making right now. They said no cap,no cap and no cap in 2004. In February 2005,they decided to accept a cap. They could have accepted the cap in September 2004 and played the 04-05 season. They lost an entire season of salary and had their contracts rolled back 24%. What's the issue now? They are going to accept a cut in % whenever they play again. It can be this month or it can be next summer. Would they rather get paid this season and accept the cut or not get paid and accept the cut? Even the escrow stuff. The players have a good portion of their escrow money returned to them. The NBA agreed to put a cap on escrow of 10% and anything above 10% is deducted from a post career benefits pool. The players had 8.5% deducted from their 11-12 salaries for escrow and they are 6.5% to 8.5% returned to them next month. They can find a solution. Would the players prefer no salary for 12-13 or getting 90% of their salary for 12-13?

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09-07-2012, 03:26 PM
  #77
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The NHL and NHLPA are meeting at 5:30 PM today.

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@RenLavoieRDS Meeting at 5:30 pm between the NHL and NHLPA in New York.
https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/sta...58198230159361

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09-07-2012, 03:46 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The NHL losing another season because of a labor issue is a little too much. The players have never made more money than they are making right now. They said no cap,no cap and no cap in 2004. In February 2005,they decided to accept a cap. They could have accepted the cap in September 2004 and played the 04-05 season. They lost an entire season of salary and had their contracts rolled back 24%. What's the issue now? They are going to accept a cut in % whenever they play again. It can be this month or it can be next summer. Would they rather get paid this season and accept the cut or not get paid and accept the cut? Even the escrow stuff. The players have a good portion of their escrow money returned to them. The NBA agreed to put a cap on escrow of 10% and anything above 10% is deducted from a post career benefits pool. The players had 8.5% deducted from their 11-12 salaries for escrow and they are 6.5% to 8.5% returned to them next month. They can find a solution. Would the players prefer no salary for 12-13 or getting 90% of their salary for 12-13?
and on the flip side you have record revenues for the owners...why would they want to lose another season and basically start from scratch in terms of revenue? the lockout ruined our relationship with ESPN, it took a whlie for a good national contract...all in all, its in nobodys best interest to have another strike/lockout/labor stoppage.

the thing that seems the most clear though, from all these talks, is that the Players are being FAR more reasonable than the owners are.

Both sides are being unreasonable in some of their demands, but the owners demands are just effing ludicrous, whereas the players demands and such are far more closer to what *should* be the final deal.

lower salaries, slow the rate of growth, etc.

i mean, i think its so damn obvious what they need to do.

1)keep the cap as it is right now, and simply keep it fixed at that rate till the revenue split becomes 50/50. (owners get something)
2)increase revenue sharing (players get something)
3)either remove artibration rights or incease the length of time that ELCs last (owners get more, becuase lets face it...they are going to win this regardless)
4)fix the way cap hits are calculated (owners get more)
5)allow real cash to be traded with players (players get some benefit from this...a form of revenue sharing)
6)a few more minor things that can be discussed to make the players or owners feel like they "won" more than they "lost"


owners are going to win this battle...but it shouldnt be anywhere close to what they are asking for right now.

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09-07-2012, 05:37 PM
  #79
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Exactly. Everyones all "AHH **** BETTMAN AND THE NHL, **** THE OWNERS!", but in reality, they all suck right now. The players are being stubborn. You're going to lose out. It's their league, just like former player Bill Guerin said. Just accept the terms and play. Either that or don't accept the terms, get paid nothing, and eventually have to accept them after you lose an entire season.

You can sit out all you want, but you'll gain nothing by it.

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09-07-2012, 05:58 PM
  #80
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At least I get to enjoy watching the players earn their living. What I get from the owners' side is higher prices every year (except the first one after the lockout), $5 bottles of water and overpriced "fancy" food.

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09-07-2012, 07:35 PM
  #81
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They met for 2 1/2 hours tonight. No word on when they'll meet again. Both sides stopped playing to the cameras which is a good sign. No leaks.

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09-07-2012, 07:48 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
At least I get to enjoy watching the players earn their living. What I get from the owners' side is higher prices every year (except the first one after the lockout), $5 bottles of water and overpriced "fancy" food.
Hey if people buy it for $5, I don't see a problem them charging that much.

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09-07-2012, 10:34 PM
  #83
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and on the flip side you have record revenues for the owners...
Not taking sides, because both are greedy ******, but just thought I'd point out that revenue doesn't equal profit. Revenue may be up, but if it costs more to run a team the owners might not actually be doing any better off. (I'm aware it's more complicate than this, but I've seen the "revenue is up" thing a few times and I find it's misleading).

Overall, both sides need to actually sit down and commit to getting this thing done, too much flapping around right now IMO.

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Old
09-07-2012, 10:49 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
Not taking sides, because both are greedy ******, but just thought I'd point out that revenue doesn't equal profit. Revenue may be up, but if it costs more to run a team the owners might not actually be doing any better off. (I'm aware it's more complicate than this, but I've seen the "revenue is up" thing a few times and I find it's misleading).

Overall, both sides need to actually sit down and commit to getting this thing done, too much flapping around right now IMO.
i believe something like 25 out of the 30 nhl teams turned a profit last year? something like that?

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09-07-2012, 11:26 PM
  #85
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It's not that I'm taking sides either the players are being stubborn but they started with a solid proposal, and of the two sides I feel the league is being more hard headed.

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09-08-2012, 01:12 AM
  #86
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I can't walk away. That's where they have me...and they know it (owners & players)....and it pisses me off no end.
I agree.

That's just the way the world works. Small guy gets **** on. And unfortunately, we the fans are the collective small guy.

However, If what I hear on SiriusXM is true about not all owners wanting a lockout is true, I like to believe the Rangers are one of the small contingent of teams that do not want a lockout. Dolan will rake in money no matter what the CBA is. MSG wants butts in the seats.

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09-08-2012, 06:29 AM
  #87
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$3.3B in revenue. Dreger tweeted going from 57% to 50% represents 1% equals $33M. If the NHL raises their cap offer from $58M-$62M in the first 3 years. Somewhere to the mid $60Ms for the first 3 years. The NBA players were getting 57% and their revenue is over $4B. The NBA players accepted 49-51. The NBA players got a little more than 51% in 11-12 From: @DarrenDreger
Sent: Sep 8, 2012 6:35a

A 50-50 split looks and sounds fair, but, as it's pointed out to me, each %pt equates to $33 mil. For the players to drop 7% is big, big $$.

sent via Twitter for BlackBerry®
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/stat...83508540321792

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09-08-2012, 06:59 AM
  #88
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NBA players offered to take 54%. The NBA waited until they accepted 49-51. Billy Hunter could have made that deal in October. The NHL players will have to accept a similiar cut. Don't miss 2 months. Be prepared to wait out the owners for 2-3 years. Last time the PA said no cap but they took a cap after they lost a whole season. Guerin said the owners would have waited them out and he wouldn't lose a year over 2%. The players have offered 54%. The average NHL salary is $2.3M-$2.4M. Don't be stupid.

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09-08-2012, 09:10 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
and on the flip side you have record revenues for the owners...why would they want to lose another season and basically start from scratch in terms of revenue? the lockout ruined our relationship with ESPN, it took a whlie for a good national contract...all in all, its in nobodys best interest to have another strike/lockout/labor stoppage.

owners are going to win this battle...but it shouldnt be anywhere close to what they are asking for right now.
What ruined the NHL's rep with ESPN was nothing more than ESPN wanting the NHL to pay THEM to broadcast games. That was the deal in the contract prior. The NHL, correctly, said "F-THAT! You should pay us! If you won't... someone will." Enter NBC/UNI and Comcast. ESPN knows that hockey isn't a must for their football/basketball loving viewers, so they don't show highlights (unless they absolutely have to, or they have nothing else to run) and the rest is history.

Had the NHL paid ESPN, they would make hockey a big deal on Sportscenter, etc. But the revenue the NHL generates from their contract with NBC is lucrative (comparatively speaking... especially when one considers paying out money as an alternative).

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09-08-2012, 09:30 AM
  #90
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ok so what are the odds that something actually got done last night. i mean i know there most likely isnt a deal but it seems to me like something happened

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09-08-2012, 10:10 AM
  #91
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ok so what are the odds that something actually got done last night. i mean i know there most likely isnt a deal but it seems to me like something happened
Mortal Kombat CBA NHL style

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09-08-2012, 10:18 AM
  #92
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ok so what are the odds that something actually got done last night. i mean i know there most likely isnt a deal but it seems to me like something happened
Its 4 or 5 guys in a room talking circles about hockey-related revenue.

If and when they agree on that, then maybe some real negotiating can happen.

Where are all the unrealistic optimists that were saying there wouldnt be a lockout?

7 more days.

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Old
09-08-2012, 10:22 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Hearing MTL Canadiens expected to announce new 3 year deal with PK Subban this week. Deal all but done.
https://twitter.com/JoshRimerHockey/...50827027230720

It was reported yesterday,MTL had a 3 year offer on the table for Subban

Quote:
#Habs have reportedly offered Subban a 3-year deal worth between 11 and 12M$. P.K. is said to be looking for 5 yrs, which explains slow prog
https://twitter.com/L_A_theRiver/sta...57878893015040

There was another report earlier in the summer about MTL offering Subban a 2 year deal worth $5.5M. Bridge contract. $2.75M AAV.

$3.6-$4M is the AAV for the 3 year deal. Takes Subban to 1 year before group III. He will be a group II again after the 3 year deal.

The Rangers have DZ who is in the same situation as Subban. The Rangers also have McD who will be a group II with arb rights next summer.

Assuming everything stays the same. Group III at 27 or 7 years. Arbitration remains the same.

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09-08-2012, 10:26 AM
  #94
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No word of any meetings today. The PA offices in Manhattan are 3 blocks away from the NHL offices on 46th Street.

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09-08-2012, 10:50 AM
  #95
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They just won't cut the ****ing crap, huh?

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09-08-2012, 11:26 AM
  #96
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Lockouts should be considered unfathomable, not a negotiation tactic.

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09-08-2012, 12:12 PM
  #97
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Nothing today.

Quote:
Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
No face-to-face discussion today between the NHL and NHLPA. Maybe Sunday.

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09-08-2012, 12:18 PM
  #98
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Nothing today.
It's weird, the last three days I've grown more optimistic.

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Old
09-08-2012, 12:42 PM
  #99
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I know that the NHL does not generate the kind of revenue/profits that other sports do. Still, I find it hard to believe that the owners and players can't come up with a sustainable arrangement. All this brinksmanship every few years tells me that the two parties lack the needed business acumen to make the league function properly.

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09-08-2012, 01:52 PM
  #100
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Can someone explain to me why the owners can't just operate under the current CBA and continue to negotiate after the season begins?

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