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Quebec Election: Part Trois

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:14 PM
  #76
PricePkPatch
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Originally Posted by HarryHabs View Post
He should have blamed the 40% of pure laine who voted NO.
The point is that the majority of Pure laine voted yes. The minorities voted no almost exclusively.

Plus, there IS the matter of the money. Everybody always oversee that one. Both sides kind of cheated during the referendum, but the No side really outcheated the Yes by an order of magnitude, channeling millions in resource to help their side.

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09-05-2012, 03:15 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
So... You are saying it would be in Canada's best interest to sign a bilateral trade agreement that guarantee safe passage of goods, capital and peoples between our border, so that intra-Canada trade is not disrupted by tariffs or cumbersome borders?

Im all for that! And me who was afraid Canada would veto us joining NAFTA.
heh, well I'm certainly not suggesting that Canada and Quebec would have an acrimonious relationship if they became independent. But there are logistical reasons why the Atlantic Canada being separated from the rest of Canada would be fairly nightmarish. I mean.... it'd be equivalent to if Alaska suddenly got a lot more populated and suddenly was composed of ten or so states. Sure, safe travel wouldn't be much of a concern for Americans traveling through British Columbia to and from the now two parts of the United States, but such separated countries rarely have long-lasting singular sovereignty expectations.

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09-05-2012, 03:17 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
I will try to find the link but I think 40 000 well paid jobs (direct and indirect) were mentioned regarding the two research centres.

As for the taxation… like most economists from the right, you refuse to factor in the cost of living. There is not a lot of place in the industrialised world where your buck take you further than in Quebec. And yes... the rates are similar to BC and Ontario.

Regarding "... like I said you just state things with no research or proof to back it up."

... and you based your extravagant opinions (the PQ = fascists) on what?

Btw... you mad? I think you are!
So much hyperbole...your dollar does not go that far in Quebec and you have less of them to work with. Again I showed you what the rates are and the taxes are much lower in Ontario and BC. I saw a huge difference in the amount of disposable income I have as soon as I left Quebec for Ottawa 6 years ago. Heck it is not uncommon for the price of gas in Montreal to be 12 to 20 cents more per liter than here in Ottawa. But you are right, my dollar goes so much further in Quebec, it just not better be using a gas powered vehicle.


Last edited by beowulf: 09-05-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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Old
09-05-2012, 03:20 PM
  #79
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http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles...88381481237582

Exclusive video from SRC.

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09-05-2012, 03:20 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
This includes 25% of all debt it would have to take on. You also do not mention that transfer payments for Quebec are in the positive by billions, which they would also lose. And as for two departments, this is Quebec's decision. Instead of have the Canadian Red Cross for example they wanted to be different and created Hema Quebec. They are the only province that has an Immigration department even though it is not needed. Many of the redundancies are due to Quebec deciding to create them. Same with taxing, all the other provinces use the federal government to collect their income taxes for them but Quebec had to be different and create their own tax department, a huge waste of money.

I am not talking about language in a retail or customer service setting, I am talking about forcing people in an office setting to work in French even if the owner of the company is English or another language and forcing them to have to go out and publish everything in French and use French computer systems which in some case might not even exist.

If the company you work for has it's head office in New York, are you going to start sending them emails and reports in French? If a coworker from there calls do you have to force them to speak to you in French? The government can mandate what language is required in a government owned business but should not have a say in the way a privately owned company is run, especially what language is used in the office.
What you don't mention is that Québec sends more than it receives, dammit I wish I had youtube :S

Someone plug the damned Aussant video in english please.

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:20 PM
  #81
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Sorry it is still not green....look at the link I posted that shows all the other issue created by hydro electric damns, especially big ones. Yes it creates less CO2 but there is more than that to worry about with the environment.
Like CO2 much of the impact of hydro will not be realized for decades. Already they are started to see issues in places like the hoover dam.

But hey when the bar is full you might as well drink like a sailor.

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:21 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
It won't be a problem, as I stated earlier Quebec has many economical advantages to separate. Canada on the other hand would end up losing big and they would pray that Quebec keeps the Canadian dollar as their currency, otherwise it would completely cripple canadian economy instead of giving it quite the handicap.

Liberals keep talking about big numbers to scare people out of the whole independence debate, the reality of it is that there are quite a few economic incentives to separate.
What are the economic advantages to separation? More debt? Less jobs? Big companies leaving the province? Heck one of the provinces largest companies would have huge issues if Quebec left Canada...Quebecor which owns a large number of newspapers, radio and television stations across Canada would possibly be forced to sell off certain things due to Canadian content and ownership laws. Do you think BCE would stay in Montreal? Not likely.

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:21 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
heh, well I'm certainly not suggesting that Canada and Quebec would have an acrimonious relationship if they became independent. But there are logistical reasons why the Atlantic Canada being separated from the rest of Canada would be fairly nightmarish. I mean.... it'd be equivalent to if Alaska suddenly got a lot more populated and suddenly was composed of ten or so states. Sure, safe travel wouldn't be much of a concern for Americans traveling through British Columbia to and from the now two parts of the United States, but such separated countries rarely have long-lasting singular sovereignty expectations.
Agreed, but it still is the kind of relationship I will always strive for. Truly, we both stand to lose if we drown ourselves in recrimony. We both stand to gain if we do things as mature people.

It starts by stopping antagonizing the very idea and linking it to fascism or Nazism.

On my side, I deal everyday with Neo-patriots who accuses the English of all our woes and still hold the silly notion that we live under their heel, that there is a huge conspirations to keep us down, keep us poor.

It's as ludicrous, and I fight these silly notions every time I can. I'd like the other side to do the same. There are STRONG arguments that can be made against separation, but diminishing the debate over the fascism of our movement and the xenophobia of separatists aren't them.

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:22 PM
  #84
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
What you don't mention is that Québec sends more than it receives, dammit I wish I had youtube :S

Someone plug the damned Aussant video in english please.
I believe all provinces send more than they receive.

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:24 PM
  #85
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Charest is coming very soon.

Let's see what he's gonna say.

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09-05-2012, 03:26 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strik_IX View Post
What you don't mention is that Québec sends more than it receives, dammit I wish I had youtube :S

Someone plug the damned Aussant video in english please.
In the end the Quebec is one of 6 provinces that receives equalization payments that are positive and it receives by far the most, to the tune of $7.4B for 2012-13 fiscal year. That is more than the other 5 provinces that receive them combined. So losing this money would hurt like hell.

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09-05-2012, 03:26 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Do you have a list of industrialized nations and "how far your buck goes" to show quebecs standing?

A quick research led me to Montreal vs Toronto; Property Prices Comparison:

http://www.numbeo.com/property-inves...&city2=Toronto

And Cost of Living Comparison Between Montreal and Vancouver:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...ity2=Vancouver

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:28 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
In the end the Quebec is one of 6 provinces that receives equalization payments that are positive and it receives by far the most, to the tune of $7.4B for 2012-13 fiscal year. That is more than the other 5 provinces that receive them combined. So losing this money would hurt like hell.
Economies of scale for some things would also be lost.

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:31 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
A quick research led me to Montreal vs Toronto; Property Prices Comparison:

http://www.numbeo.com/property-inves...&city2=Toronto

And Cost of Living Comparison Between Montreal and Vancouver:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...ity2=Vancouver
So first you talk about Quebec versus industrialized nations and now you are comparing one cities property prices to only Montreal and then another cities cost of living. And all that does not mean much if you are also making a significant amount more money NET on each pay check. So if it costs me 10% more to live in Vancouver than Montreal but I take home 15% more on my paycheck then I am still better off living in Vancouver.

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:31 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
A quick research led me to Montreal vs Toronto; Property Prices Comparison:

http://www.numbeo.com/property-inves...&city2=Toronto

And Cost of Living Comparison Between Montreal and Vancouver:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...ity2=Vancouver
Yes i think every body understands MLT TOR and VAN.

You said industrialized nations and quebec and dollar going further.

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09-05-2012, 03:36 PM
  #91
Kjell Dahlin
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Yes i think every body understands MLT TOR and VAN.

You said industrialized nations and quebec and dollar going further.
My GAWD... you know this little thing called the internet? Use it ya lazy bum! I know for a fact that the cost of living is a lot lower than in Germany. What are you expecting me to do here... providing you with a list of all the freakin countries?

The cost of living in Quebec is among the lowest of the industrialised regions of the world… and it needs to be factored in when you compare the taxation rates.


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 09-05-2012 at 03:42 PM.
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Old
09-05-2012, 03:36 PM
  #92
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It's now confirmed.

Jean Charest has resigned.

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09-05-2012, 03:37 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
this very thread is an example of the skewed views. The English media's depiction of Marois or PQ is just as horrible. The Gazette even compared Bourrassa to Hilter because of Bill 101!

People are openly cheering for Marois's wanna be assassin on Favebook and Twitter.

How can you be so blind?!? Because it's convenient?!? Our Anglo-Saxon minority have it damn easy, they are the richest demographic group in Quebec, for god's sake!
How? Show your work, or can you?

I don't see a lot of name calling or derogatory remarks toward ethnic groups or cultures from the "angryphones" in this thread, and yet the usual suspects on the other side are spouting their same ******** rhetoric.

How blind can I be?!? Absolutely laughable. Look in the mirror.

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09-05-2012, 03:39 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
How? Show your work, or can you?

I don't see a lot of name calling or derogatory remarks toward ethnic groups or cultures from the "angryphones" in this thread, and yet the usual suspects on the other side are spouting their same ******** rhetoric.

How blind can I be?!? Absolutely laughable. Look in the mirror.
Just move your ass a bit and go read part I and II!

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:40 PM
  #95
Kjell Dahlin
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
How? Show your work, or can you?

I don't see a lot of name calling or derogatory remarks toward ethnic groups or cultures from the "angryphones" in this thread, and yet the usual suspects on the other side are spouting their same ******** rhetoric.

How blind can I be?!? Absolutely laughable. Look in the mirror.
"... I don't see a lot of name calling or derogatory remarks toward ethnic groups or cultures from the "angryphones" in this thread.."

You don't? Someone just linked the PQ with fascism!

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09-05-2012, 03:41 PM
  #96
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We just got rid of one of the worst PMs in Québec history!


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Old
09-05-2012, 03:42 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
My GAWD... you know this little thing called the internet? Use it ya lazy bum! I know for a fact that the cost of living is a lot less than in Germany. What are you expecting me to do here... providing you with a list of all the freakin countries?

The cost of living in Quebec is among the lowest of the industrialised regions of the world… and it needs to be factored in when you compare the taxation rates.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...ncome-gap.html

Sounds nice.

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09-05-2012, 03:49 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Just move your ass a bit and go read part I and II!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
"... I don't see a lot of name calling or derogatory remarks toward ethnic groups or cultures from the "angryphones" in this thread.."

You don't? Someone just linked the PQ with fascism!
What I read and have read is a boatload petulant whining.

I, for one, have had my opinion on this subject changed forever over the last 5 years. As far as I'm concerned, ****ing leave if it's so damned important to you. However, the concept that you feel some mystic right to only leave behind and/or keep what benefits Quebec above all is easily the dumbest concept I've ever come across. Not only is it prevalent in all this, it appears to be downright accepted to be entitlement.

The idea of "oh, you don't understand because you're English" can't go away fast enough. Just go already. I, for one, encourage it.

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Old
09-05-2012, 03:50 PM
  #99
Kjell Dahlin
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Oh please...

(1) the author, like most economists from the right, refused to factor in the cost of living

(2) "... Quebecers' rate of participation in the workforce is lower than in other provinces, and people in the province work fewer hours per week, earn less per hour worked – and retire earlier, too..."

It's called a nation's choice. You can't limit yourself to #hours worked - like they did in this study - when measuring "wealth". Plenty of small countries (Scandinavians countries comes to mind) are doing well and adopted a viable and human prosperity model. This study emphasises the value we, in Quebec, put in a broader definition of the concept known as "quality of life". Why are you considering retiring early as a bad thing?

Btw... you never seems to react directly to my answers: you just keep on moving forward... somewhat blindly imo

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09-05-2012, 03:56 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Oh please...

(1) the author, like most economists from the right, refused to factor in the cost of living

(2) "... Quebecers' rate of participation in the workforce is lower than in other provinces, and people in the province work fewer hours per week, earn less per hour worked – and retire earlier, too..."

It's called a nation's choice. You can't limit yourself to #hours worked - like they did in this study - when measuring "wealth". Plenty of small countries (Scandinavians countries comes to mind) are doing well and adopted a viable and human prosperity model. This study emphasises the value we, in Quebec, put in a broader definition of the concept known as "quality of life". Why are you considering retiring early as a bad thing?

Btw... you never seems to react directly to my answers: you just keep on moving forward... somewhat blindly imo
The spin factor here is off the chart. And yes it is a problem when people here don't work, and expect this "quality of life" they enjoy in their downtime to be subsidized by other people's work.

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