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Saad for Plekanec

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Old
09-07-2012, 04:54 AM
  #101
Dr Awesome
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I would ask this question when did the habs hire mike milbury?

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Old
09-07-2012, 12:14 PM
  #102
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Saad, Hjarm, Frolik, and McNeil for Pleks and Cole. Both teams will thank me in the morning.

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Old
09-07-2012, 11:29 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Saad, Hjarm, Frolik, and McNeil for Pleks and Cole. Both teams will thank me in the morning.
Why Frolik ? We've had enough failed project.

This takes up too much contract's space.

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Old
09-08-2012, 12:03 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Toews is better defensively, it's clear.

FOs
Toews - 59% 1st overall
Plek - 49% 61st overall

Takeaways
Toews - 82 in 59games
Plek - 43 in 81games

Giveaways
Toews - 25 in 59games
Plek - 43 in 81games

+/-
Toews - +17
Plek - -15

I could keep going ...

Plekanec had a star goalie, and a better defensive team as a whole than Chicago did and still finished -32 behind Toews. Plekanec is no where near Toews, in anything.

He is a great 2nd line C, would love to have him, Saad + Morin(or 2nd in 2014) + Hayes is as far as I would go.
A better defensive team is kind of a stretch no ? our 3rd best dman was Emelin.

the only reason we're good is because we have good checking forward and our first D pair. Plekanec, Eller and Moen are all good shutdown player.

Also how do you really bring up +/-? Good +/- on a basement team vs good +/- on a contender...

Take awar/give away is not reliable too. They're not calculated at the same rate in all the arena.(Anyway giveaway for plek and Toews is pretty much the same.)

at first sight Plekanec is crap in the faceoff, i'd give it to you. And Toews is phenomenal (he is really.) but when you look at defensive faceoff taken, Plek has won 220 and loss 191 while Toews won 103 and lost 73 pretty much the same isnt it ?

I could talk about Plekanec having more blocked shots.
Or Plek playing 3 minutes of P.K. a night.
I could also talk about Plekanec being almost PPG when he was playing with Cammy. (For offense.)
Plekanec being more though than Toews even though he concedes 3-4 inches. (YES HE IS)

J toews having 22% more O-zone start. They have similar PDO so the Goalie crap is canceled. Who faced thougestg competition on Chi ? Bolland. Who faced thoughest competition on Mtl ? Plek.

QoC is fairly similar (.01 diffenrece in favor of plek.) But there's a wide margin for QoT


Yet again, both players are similar, one is surely more talented, younger, flashy, exposed and better overall, I already stated it. This doesnt mean that Toews is the god of all 2-way centers. He's pretty much on-par with Krejci, Plek, Weiss, Koivu and etc... I'd say he's on top of this class FOR SURE.

Now I think i've made it clear where I stand, If you want to bring serious arguments, you can. Otherise keep it for yourself.


Last edited by spiny norman: 09-08-2012 at 01:46 AM. Reason: not needed
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Old
09-08-2012, 09:07 AM
  #105
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Saad would be a good starting point for this kind of deal, but the Hawks would have to add

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Old
09-08-2012, 09:21 AM
  #106
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As a Hawks fan.....I would do that trade in a heartbeat!

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Old
09-08-2012, 10:45 AM
  #107
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I may be a rare habs fan that wants Plek to retire as a Canadien. Anyway for the OP's proposal, not even close to a deal.

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Old
09-08-2012, 11:41 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
And you uderrate everyone, fairly simple ? Every team would salivate on Price, even if they don't need him ATM, you're acting like he his 34 Years old like the other dominant goaltenders. Patches can rivalize with alot of forward, sure he's not in the Crosby and in the Malkin/stamkos/JT category but he can rivalize with more than half of the team in the NHL. P.K. is surpassed by who? Chara, Weber, Pietrangelo, maybe Doughty. Then i think it's all gravy.

Take off your sinister glasses and watch hockey objectively.
From an objective outsider's point of view I'd say his analysis is much more accurate than yours. If he has sinister glasses then you've got the homer glasses. I think everyone is in agreeance that Carey Price is a goalie that a lot of teams would love to have.

But after that I think you're mistaking potential for actual achievement. Patches and PK are certainly on track to being nice pieces to build around, but as for what they have proven and what they can do for a team right now, there are a lot more players than those you mentioned that other teams would want over them. If you made everyone a free agent and told them to draft and your only goal was to win the Cup this year, PK would be way further down the list of D-men then after Chara, Weber and Pieterangelo.

If your point is just about good players to build a young team around, they will be good pieces if they keep on developing down the road, and I'm sure every team would make room on their current roster for them. But if you're implying that a lot of teams would give up their top forward and defenseman for Patches and PK then you're out of your mind. I'm a lowly Leafs fan and I wouldn't give up Kessel and Phaneuf or Gardiner for Patches and PK.

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Old
09-08-2012, 11:46 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
A better defensive team is kind of a stretch no ? our 3rd best dman was Emelin.

the only reason we're good is because we have good checking forward and our first D pair. Plekanec, Eller and Moen are all good shutdown player.
Yes, on paper CHI has better D, but we lack defensive forwards outside of Bolland, Toews, and Hossa. That's why I said Team D, not defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Also how do you really bring up +/-? Good +/- on a basement team vs good +/- on a contender...
As a team MTL was -14, CHI was +10...not that big of a difference as contender/basement team you suggest. And if Plek is so good defensively and offensively as Toews, his +/- should be a little closer to Toews, than being the 2nd worst forward on his team.

Also, Eric Cole was a +11 on a basement team, Frolik was -10 on a contender...fwiw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Take awar/give away is not reliable too. They're not calculated at the same rate in all the arena.(Anyway giveaway for plek and Toews is pretty much the same.)
Takeaway is reliable, especially when there is such a massive gap like there is between Toews and Plek..Toews is an elite takeaway artist, which plays a big part defensively. Giveaways are close, but its not as much of a defensive stat as takeaways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
at first sight Plekanec is crap in the faceoff, i'd give it to you. And Toews is phenomenal (he is really.) but when you look at defensive faceoff taken, Plek has won 220 and loss 191 while Toews won 103 and lost 73 pretty much the same isnt it ?
Still a 6% difference in favour of Toews..(59.5% - 53.5%)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I could talk about Plekanec having more blocked shots.
Or Plek playing 3 minutes of P.K. a night.
I could also talk about Plekanec being almost PPG when he was playing with Cammy. (For offense.)
Plekanec being more though than Toews even though he concedes 3-4 inches. (YES HE IS)
More blocked shots for Plek, mainly because Toews is far more often in the offensive zone than defensive zone.
Toews is our best PKer, so no argument needed there.
We wont get into offense, because Toews easily takes the cake on that.
Plek more tough (i think thats what you meant) ..how so? Toews fought Backes and didnt look out of place. Not sure how you are quantifying tough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
J toews having 22% more O-zone start. They have similar PDO so the Goalie crap is canceled. Who faced thougestg competition on Chi ? Bolland. Who faced thoughest competition on Mtl ? Plek.
Toews is needed for his offense more than defense, because we have Bolland as our shut down C. Any coach in their right mind would put their best offensive player out in the O zone over the D zone, especially when you have one of the best shut down Cs in the league on your team.

Since you are looking at PDO..have a look at the CorsiOn..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
QoC is fairly similar (.01 diffenrece in favor of plek.) But there's a wide margin for QoT
Now you are just pulling stats out of no where.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Yet again, both players are similar, one is surely more talented, younger, flashy, exposed and better overall, I already stated it. This doesnt mean that Toews is the god of all 2-way centers. He's pretty much on-par with Krejci, Plek, Weiss, Koivu and etc... I'd say he's on top of this class FOR SURE.

Now I think i've made it clear where I stand, If you want to bring serious arguments, you can. Otherise keep it for yourself.
Both players are not similar, Toews is far better offensively, slightly better defensively, and a lot better in most other aspects of the game. He is one of the best 2 way C's in the game, along with Datsyuk. He is above Krejci, Plek, Weiss, and Koivu..it's not debatable. He is near the bottom of the class of Crosby, Malkin, and Datsyuk.

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Old
09-08-2012, 11:48 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handyj View Post
If your point is just about good players to build a young team around, they will be good pieces if they keep on developing down the road, and I'm sure every team would make room on their current roster for them. But if you're implying that a lot of teams would give up their top forward and defenseman for Patches and PK then you're out of your mind. I'm a lowly Leafs fan and I wouldn't give up Kessel and Phaneuf or Gardiner for Patches and PK.
Kessel > Pacioretty
Subban > Paneuf > Gardiner

It's close.

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Old
09-08-2012, 12:16 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Kessel > Pacioretty
Subban > Paneuf > Gardiner

It's close.
Subban is not better than Phaneuf.

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Old
09-08-2012, 12:32 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Subban is not better than Phaneuf.
Every factor being taken into consideration, Subban is a more desirable asset to build around than Phaneuf. At least in my opinion.

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Old
09-08-2012, 12:46 PM
  #113
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Phaneuf is the better player, Subban is more valuable.

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Old
09-08-2012, 12:53 PM
  #114
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This is the second time this thread has gone completely OT from the OP. We are done.

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