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Pirates of the Allegheny: Yo Ho Yo Ho A Failure's Life For Thee

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Old
09-23-2012, 09:25 AM
  #726
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Old
09-23-2012, 11:20 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Seems like even the guy at Pirates Prospects who is a big time management homer is starting to accept that heads are going to roll. My only hope is the kind of GM that they replace him with is someone who isnt an old retread like the manager they got.

The thing with the pirates due to their market size and ownership limitations they absolutely need a stud of a GM to be remotely competitive. They need to find someone who is innovative, who emphasizes drafting and player development and scouting. If they got an old fart who just thinks like the rest of the league then the team is going to be screwed because we have no special draft position and the budget limitations and the shear fact that FA's don't want to come to pittsburgh are going to put limitations on him so he can't compete.
Agreed--this is why I'd lean towards wanting to see Huntington stay, but I think he'll probably get fired and Hurdle will stay around, because that'd be a quintessentially Pirates thing to do. I definitely put the blame for the team's collapses during the season at Hurdle's feet. The only things I blame Huntington for at the deadlines are things like not trading Hanrahan, which he couldn't have done anyways. Last year he played it safe and that really backfired, but this year I felt like he did fine given the market. The Wandy trade is looking fairly decent, despite the fact that for some reason Hurdle has no faith in leaving him in the game for very long. He's a dependable lefty, that Huntington could have kept just for using some money on Maholm, but I don't really think there were other trades out there that the Pirates missed out on.

In some ways this season has been a perfect storm of disappointment and frustration. The team was playing a bit over its head all year, and behind an absolutely dominant McCutchen was able to really play up to a lead. But regress to the mean and injuries hit HARD, and for the last month it's just been one thing after another. It sucks, and I think heads are going to roll, but there was some measured progress this year, such as Pedro mostly turning his season around, Marte getting his feet wet, Garret Jones' quiet excellence. Going forward, I think the big question marks at Travis Snider, who's been hard to read because of injuries, the catcher/pitching strategy that leads to steals situation, and bullpen (bracketing aside injury and performance questions about J-Mac, Morton, and Karstens).

I say this after trying to step back for a week and withdraw from the ****** on-field performance right now. On paper I like the team more heading into next season. There are still a lot of problems, but with measured success in the minor leagues, some breakout seasons from players, and Cole well on his way to a mid-season debut next year, I think some more improvement is on the way.

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09-23-2012, 11:21 AM
  #728
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Line up today looks worse than normal

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Old
09-23-2012, 11:56 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
Seems like even the guy at Pirates Prospects who is a big time management homer is starting to accept that heads are going to roll. My only hope is the kind of GM that they replace him with is someone who isnt an old retread like the manager they got.

The thing with the pirates due to their market size and ownership limitations they absolutely need a stud of a GM to be remotely competitive. They need to find someone who is innovative, who emphasizes drafting and player development and scouting. If they got an old fart who just thinks like the rest of the league then the team is going to be screwed because we have no special draft position and the budget limitations and the shear fact that FA's don't want to come to pittsburgh are going to put limitations on him so he can't compete.

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Old
09-23-2012, 12:55 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Milo Hamilton -- the astros announcer that used to be the pirates announcer -- is three years away from being in broadcasting for 70 years. At least that's what he said.
Wow. That is.....****ing nuts. That is almost 3 times as long as I have been alive

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Old
09-23-2012, 01:10 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
lol in the back of my mind that is basically the model I was thinking of. This franchise has to handle the drafting and development perfectly or it's going to continue to be a perennial loser, I don't want them getting an average GM or even an above average GM. They need a great GM.

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Old
09-23-2012, 01:11 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by invictus View Post
Wow. That is.....****ing nuts. That is almost 3 times as long as I have been alive
I think Vin Scully the Dodgers announcer has been doing it for almost as long. I know he was the voice for them since they moved to LA and that was a long time ago.

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Old
09-23-2012, 04:31 PM
  #733
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It certainly took Hurdle long enough to find the correct situation for Qualls - low leverage.

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Old
09-23-2012, 04:37 PM
  #734
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no sweep!

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Old
09-24-2012, 06:02 PM
  #735
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ESPN is piling on now. That said, the details that they came up with are daunting and really do make this the most depressing team ever. Not just Pirates team but any baseball team. Take a look:


Bucs making the wrong kind of history

September, 24, 2012
Sep 24

This is an edition of the September History Watch that we September History Watchers didn't want to write -- any more than Clint Hurdle or Andrew McCutchen or A.J. Burnett want to read.

But at this point, we can't help ourselves, because the Pittsburgh Pirates are hurtling toward the kind of history nobody wants to make.


As recently as Aug. 6, a mere seven weeks ago, they had a record of 62-46. That's 16 games over .500, if you're subtracting along at home. And they'd played 108 games at the time. That's two-thirds of the season.

So if there ever was a lock for them -- or any team -- to finish with a winning record, this was it. Right?

OK, wrong. Obviously. We know that now. We know it because the Pirates have tumbled, stumbled and bumbled their way to a record that now sits at two games under .500.

And that means this team is on the verge of doing something no team has ever done:

Find itself at least 16 games over .500 after 108 games and finish with a (gulp) losing record.

We spent way too much time Monday morning studying this depressing topic. We found more than 500 teams through the years that were 16 games over .500 or more after 108 games. And you know what they all had in common?

Not one of them wound up with more losses than wins. Not one!

It seemed so hard to believe that we asked the Elias Sports Bureau to double-check, just to make sure we weren't nuts.

Nope. That was the deal, all right.

Not one!


http://espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/s...nd-history-mlb

The article goes on to go into great detail those clubs that came closest to this kind of collapse. The Pirates would have to go 7-3 to even tie a couple of teams that collapsed to .500. All I can say is that Nutting deserves this. The players and fans, not so much.

But you reap what you sow, and Nutting gets his seeds from the cheapest stores in town.

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Old
09-24-2012, 07:21 PM
  #736
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McPherson making the rotation next year would be nice for talking about the team on the internet, because then we'd have JMac and KMac.

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Old
09-25-2012, 01:36 AM
  #737
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It's kind sad now. Earlier in the year during a pirates game we'd get like 10 pages or so, now we got one non related post.

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Old
09-25-2012, 09:00 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
It's kind sad now. Earlier in the year during a pirates game we'd get like 10 pages or so, now we got one non related post.
I'm still watching, just not quite as intently and definitely with less interest in talking about it

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Old
09-25-2012, 12:38 PM
  #739
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I'm still watching, just not quite as intently and definitely with less interest in talking about it
Ya, I still get phone updates, but they mostly just make me laugh/cry at the same time

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Old
09-25-2012, 01:57 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
ESPN is piling on now. That said, the details that they came up with are daunting and really do make this the most depressing team ever. Not just Pirates team but any baseball team. Take a look:


Bucs making the wrong kind of history

September, 24, 2012
Sep 24

This is an edition of the September History Watch that we September History Watchers didn't want to write -- any more than Clint Hurdle or Andrew McCutchen or A.J. Burnett want to read.

But at this point, we can't help ourselves, because the Pittsburgh Pirates are hurtling toward the kind of history nobody wants to make.


As recently as Aug. 6, a mere seven weeks ago, they had a record of 62-46. That's 16 games over .500, if you're subtracting along at home. And they'd played 108 games at the time. That's two-thirds of the season.

So if there ever was a lock for them -- or any team -- to finish with a winning record, this was it. Right?

OK, wrong. Obviously. We know that now. We know it because the Pirates have tumbled, stumbled and bumbled their way to a record that now sits at two games under .500.

And that means this team is on the verge of doing something no team has ever done:

Find itself at least 16 games over .500 after 108 games and finish with a (gulp) losing record.

We spent way too much time Monday morning studying this depressing topic. We found more than 500 teams through the years that were 16 games over .500 or more after 108 games. And you know what they all had in common?

Not one of them wound up with more losses than wins. Not one!

It seemed so hard to believe that we asked the Elias Sports Bureau to double-check, just to make sure we weren't nuts.

Nope. That was the deal, all right.

Not one!


http://espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/s...nd-history-mlb

The article goes on to go into great detail those clubs that came closest to this kind of collapse. The Pirates would have to go 7-3 to even tie a couple of teams that collapsed to .500. All I can say is that Nutting deserves this. The players and fans, not so much.

But you reap what you sow, and Nutting gets his seeds from the cheapest stores in town.
Try any sports team in the history of professional sports.. lol. It's pretty bad. To lose 20 seasons in a row is just something special.

I couldn't care less though. The Nuttings are raking in the profits and running the Pirates like a publicly traded company. There's obviously a big tradeoff between profits and wins in the context of the MLB system.

I feel bad for the fans who get invested in this sad sack team year after year. Hopefully reality hits them in the face this year and they finally realize that this team will never be over 0.500 with Nutting in charge.

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Old
09-25-2012, 02:27 PM
  #741
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Try any sports team in the history of professional sports.. lol. It's pretty bad. To lose 20 seasons in a row is just something special.

I couldn't care less though. The Nuttings are raking in the profits and running the Pirates like a publicly traded company. There's obviously a big tradeoff between profits and wins in the context of the MLB system.

I feel bad for the fans who get invested in this sad sack team year after year. Hopefully reality hits them in the face this year and they finally realize that this team will never be over 0.500 with Nutting in charge.
everybody knows.

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Old
09-25-2012, 07:04 PM
  #742
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Jhay has been on fire

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Old
09-26-2012, 07:02 PM
  #743
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So the front office is going to be retained. I think it's a relatively good move, given that they are on the hot seat next season. Coonelly is sticking to the long-term plan, which I think is fair enough to Huntington's rebuild. There are some pretty serious questions about MLB scouting, I think, and to raise a separate point, Hurdle has been god awful with in-game strategy. I'm down with seeing this through another year with the expectation that the team will make another improvement to 85-90 wins and serious wild card contention. Huntington has his work cut out in terms of bullpen depth, what to do with the starting pitching situation, and whether to stand pat with Snider, and some others.

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Old
09-26-2012, 07:08 PM
  #744
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Agreed, I'm sure the usual people will deride the move but I think another year is deserved. It's not Huntington's fault that the same team that was 16 games over .500 suffered such a horrible collapse. They clearly had the talent but not the mental make-up and that's hard to predict.

If next year sees any regression though I hope the heads roll.

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Old
09-26-2012, 07:28 PM
  #745
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Huntington is the only guy I have a positive opinion of, so I'm certainly fine with that.


edit: Ah...that's Starks and everyone too...well that I'm less a fan of, but it would be pretty hard to retain just the GM and clean house below him.


Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 09-26-2012 at 08:40 PM.
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Old
09-26-2012, 07:38 PM
  #746
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For me, the important thing is that the evaluation (of upper management) be done from a wide-angle perspective. That's what they've done, and there's a standard in place for next year.

Marte just made watching this mess worth it with that throw.

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09-26-2012, 08:25 PM
  #747
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This pretty much captures the ethos right now:

https://twitter.com/rtjr/status/2511.../photo/1/large

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Old
09-26-2012, 08:34 PM
  #748
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Yeaaaaah. Gonna be a tough couple of last games.

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Old
09-27-2012, 12:53 PM
  #749
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Half decent catch by Snider.

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Old
09-27-2012, 12:57 PM
  #750
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Half decent catch by Snider.

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