HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Notices

Grand Rapids Griffins 2012-13

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-09-2012, 06:53 AM
  #476
joe89
#5
 
joe89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 16,568
vCash: 500
Wrong thread ;-)


Last edited by joe89: 11-09-2012 at 06:58 AM.
joe89 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 08:27 AM
  #477
Rzombo4 prez
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Yeah I am definitely interested in seeing how this season plays out. I don't know why anyone wouldn't be thrilled with Billins' play both last season and the start of his AHL career. He's been phenomenal. Just my opinion but Almqvist seems like the d-man version of Jiri Hudler. The big problem with that is he's not producing offense. His numbers were disappointing his final two seasons in the SEL and he's not off to a great start in Grand Rapids. He's got to produce offense to show he's a legit NHL prospect.
We really need the NHL to work out a deal soon. Sending Smith and Gus (maybe Tatar?) up to the big club will free up ice time for some others that really need the development time or that really need to be evaluated (Almqvist, Jurco, Sheahan, etc.). I will give Billins his due. I was skeptical of him at first, but he has been very, very good in GR. I am less concerned about Almqvist's production than I am his size and strength. I don't want to kick him to the curb until we know what he can do with a more mature physique, which may still take some time.

Rzombo4 prez is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 08:50 AM
  #478
solo16
Registered User
 
solo16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 3,574
vCash: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzombo4 prez View Post
We really need the NHL to work out a deal soon. Sending Smith and Gus (maybe Tatar?) up to the big club will free up ice time for some others that really need the development time or that really need to be evaluated (Almqvist, Jurco, Sheahan, etc.). I will give Billins his due. I was skeptical of him at first, but he has been very, very good in GR. I am less concerned about Almqvist's production than I am his size and strength. I don't want to kick him to the curb until we know what he can do with a more mature physique, which may still take some time.
Strongly disagree. This is exactly what we needed. A chance for our prospects to play against the best prospects in the league and show they are a cut above. Only then will they truly be ready to knock the door down in the NHL.

Smith/Nyquist/Tartar need to be 3 of the top 20 players in the AHL this year. If they are not then really their place on the wings is questionable. If they are they can walk on the team and be valuable contributors.

solo16 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 08:51 AM
  #479
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzombo4 prez View Post
We really need the NHL to work out a deal soon. Sending Smith and Gus (maybe Tatar?) up to the big club will free up ice time for some others that really need the development time or that really need to be evaluated (Almqvist, Jurco, Sheahan, etc.). I will give Billins his due. I was skeptical of him at first, but he has been very, very good in GR. I am less concerned about Almqvist's production than I am his size and strength. I don't want to kick him to the curb until we know what he can do with a more mature physique, which may still take some time.
Sure, that's a reasonable approach. It's just we're now in a very solid position with having a LOT of high quality d-men rapidly working their way up the pipeline. So with that being the case I think this is a big season for Almqvist. The fact he hasn't addressed his biggest shortcoming should be cause for concern IMO.

Harnessed in Slums is online now  
Old
11-09-2012, 09:02 AM
  #480
Henkka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,660
vCash: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Strongly disagree. This is exactly what we needed. A chance for our prospects to play against the best prospects in the league and show they are a cut above. Only then will they truly be ready to knock the door down in the NHL.

Smith/Nyquist/Tartar need to be 3 of the top 20 players in the AHL this year. If they are not then really their place on the wings is questionable. If they are they can walk on the team and be valuable contributors.
I see it same way. Good post.

At the moment we don't have any kind of problem with the Griffins team. There are all the good prospects in big roles.

At next year, there is maybe the positive problem that we have to spread guys in different leagues to fit all potential guys in.

Henkka is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 09:29 AM
  #481
sully61
Unregistered User
 
sully61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,394
vCash: 500
I'm thinking you see a trade from Holland between prospects maybe. Maybe almqvist for a bigger forward?

sully61 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 09:39 AM
  #482
Rzombo4 prez
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Strongly disagree. This is exactly what we needed. A chance for our prospects to play against the best prospects in the league and show they are a cut above. Only then will they truly be ready to knock the door down in the NHL.

Smith/Nyquist/Tartar need to be 3 of the top 20 players in the AHL this year. If they are not then really their place on the wings is questionable. If they are they can walk on the team and be valuable contributors.
There is no question that the AHL is better this year due to the lock out, but is there really any doubt in your mind about whether Smith and Nyquist are NHL ready or satisfy your metric of being top 20 players in the AHL? I don't need to see them test themselves against top prospects because I have already seen them test themselves against NHL regulars and was satisfied with the results. You could perhaps argue otherwise with Tatar and I will give you that. Anyways, I don't really see Gus and especially Smith "developing" much this season in the AHL. In my opinion they are just there biding time more than anything.

I would also like to think that we have more than 3 prospects to worry about.

Rzombo4 prez is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:09 AM
  #483
jaster
glendeningforcaptain
 
jaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 6,114
vCash: 500
Going to the Griffs game tonight. Who's in net?

jaster is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:49 AM
  #484
solo16
Registered User
 
solo16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 3,574
vCash: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzombo4 prez View Post
There is no question that the AHL is better this year due to the lock out, but is there really any doubt in your mind about whether Smith and Nyquist are NHL ready or satisfy your metric of being top 20 players in the AHL? I don't need to see them test themselves against top prospects because I have already seen them test themselves against NHL regulars and was satisfied with the results. You could perhaps argue otherwise with Tatar and I will give you that. Anyways, I don't really see Gus and especially Smith "developing" much this season in the AHL. In my opinion they are just there biding time more than anything.

I would also like to think that we have more than 3 prospects to worry about.
Actually there is. They are both over-hyped relative to their performance in the AHL. I like them both as prospects but if they are going to be our future star players they need to show they can be the best player in the AHL. Neither has even come close to that until this year (Nyquist).


If you cant dominate the AHL how are you going to dominate the NHL?

solo16 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 11:50 AM
  #485
joe89
#5
 
joe89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 16,568
vCash: 500
Next year will be interesting no matter how you slice it. I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of first year pros go to the ECHL for a great amount of ice time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Actually there is. They are both over-hyped relative to their performance in the AHL. I like them both as prospects but if they are going to be our future star players they need to show they can be the best player in the AHL. Neither has even come close to that until this year (Nyquist).


If you cant dominate the AHL how are you going to dominate the NHL?
No one goes from dominating the AHL to dominating the NHL. It merely means you are ready. Then they'll have to develop a few more years in the NHL before they can, possibly, turn into stars there.

joe89 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 12:16 PM
  #486
Harnessed in Slums
Registered User
 
Harnessed in Slums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 9,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Going to the Griffs game tonight. Who's in net?
MLIVE seems to indicate it will be Mrazek.

Harnessed in Slums is online now  
Old
11-09-2012, 12:52 PM
  #487
jaster
glendeningforcaptain
 
jaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 6,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
MLIVE seems to indicate it will be Mrazek.
Excellent. Looking forward to seeing him in person for the first time.

jaster is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 01:09 PM
  #488
solo16
Registered User
 
solo16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 3,574
vCash: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
No one goes from dominating the AHL to dominating the NHL. It merely means you are ready. Then they'll have to develop a few more years in the NHL before they can, possibly, turn into stars there.
Spezza and Eric Staal did. Cammalleri, Vanek and Boyes were all top line players shortly after the last lockout where they dominated the AHL.

Obviously experience helps but I want a player like Nyquist that has pretty much been number 1 in every league hes ever played in.

solo16 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 02:10 PM
  #489
The Zetterberg Era
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 17,350
vCash: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Spezza and Eric Staal did. Cammalleri, Vanek and Boyes were all top line players shortly after the last lockout where they dominated the AHL.

Obviously experience helps but I want a player like Nyquist that has pretty much been number 1 in every league hes ever played in.
Depends on the guy, for instance Adam Henrique has scored more points in the NHL than he did at the AHL. I think especially D-man see a bump from playing with guys that can finish chances on all lines. So Smith scores more at the NHL level because the bump in talent helps him a ton. I don't care much about the numbers, they are nice but since I have watched every game, I care more about how they look. Nyquist is second in the league in scoring, he looks like he is going dominate the league.

Ever since the Wings brass came up and the FSD game, Smith has looked like his old self. He still isn't as nasty as I remember and not quite as physical, but his play is ramping up. He looks a little more interested but might still be protecting himself from injury if the season was to start. Quite frankly given the role he is expected to play, he might been told dial back the fighting and hitting, we need you once this thing is over. Should be interesting tonight as Smith seems to hate Rockford/Chicago to a large degree. Has fought with a couple players and generally plays them hard. Probably his most physical game came against Rockford earlier this year, so I am wondering if the mean streak comes through tonight. Really that is the only part of his game that we know is there that hasn't been around all that often the last 5 or 6 games.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 11-09-2012 at 02:15 PM.
The Zetterberg Era is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 02:11 PM
  #490
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
The notion that you need to dominate in the AHL to be successful in the NHL is bunk and not supported by facts.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 02:28 PM
  #491
probertrules24
Down with the Bruins
 
probertrules24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Spezza and Eric Staal did. Cammalleri, Vanek and Boyes were all top line players shortly after the last lockout where they dominated the AHL.

Obviously experience helps but I want a player like Nyquist that has pretty much been number 1 in every league hes ever played in.
I don't disagree with what your saying as I would love for him to be a top point producer in the AHL but there are examples of many players who weren't over a point per game in the AHL who are top 6 guys.

Eriksson - 78 31 29 60
Pominville - 78 30 38 68
Moulson - 77 25 32 57
Sharp - 75 23 29 52
Parise - 73 18 40 58

Nyquist - 56 22 36 58

All 5 guys were in the top 25 in scoring last year.

probertrules24 is online now  
Old
11-09-2012, 02:35 PM
  #492
joe89
#5
 
joe89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 16,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Spezza and Eric Staal did. Cammalleri, Vanek and Boyes were all top line players shortly after the last lockout where they dominated the AHL.

Obviously experience helps but I want a player like Nyquist that has pretty much been number 1 in every league hes ever played in.
Difference being that they are first rounders, bigger guys or in Cammalleri's case had quite a bit of NHL experience from before the lockout aswell.

I'm very happy with where Nyquist is in his progress today, but he was a later round, undersized pick. Pavel or Z are much better comparables for how his career path might look if he ever reaches those heights. Guys who had to take their time to get physically mature, stronger, and took another few years in the big league to be leading players.

I guess what I'm trying to say that you can't take the last steps of development in the AHL. You can dominate there, but it still comes down to how your game translates to the bigger, more structured hockey. For the better part of prospects, that doesn't happen over night.

joe89 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 02:53 PM
  #493
solo16
Registered User
 
solo16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 3,574
vCash: 728
To be clear, I never said you have to dominate the AHL to be successful in the NHL. So lets throw that out the window. There is not blueprint for a successful player. But the funny thing about good dominant players is they usually dominate wherever they play. (though not all players that dominate one league can or will dominate the next). Crosby and Tavares are good examples of dominating every level of play. Jiri Hudler is an example of the opposite.

Decent Pedigree/Physical attributes+ AHL success is going to make NHL success alot more of a sure thing.

There are exemptions obviously but most of the AHL wonders are not A+ prospects.

solo16 is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 03:54 PM
  #494
Guru Meditation
Service Unavailable
 
Guru Meditation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
To be clear, I never said you have to dominate the AHL to be successful in the NHL. So lets throw that out the window. There is not blueprint for a successful player. But the funny thing about good dominant players is they usually dominate wherever they play. (though not all players that dominate one league can or will dominate the next). Crosby and Tavares are good examples of dominating every level of play. Jiri Hudler is an example of the opposite.

Decent Pedigree/Physical attributes+ AHL success is going to make NHL success alot more of a sure thing.

There are exemptions obviously but most of the AHL wonders are not A+ prospects.
I don't think we need Nyquist and Tatar to be dominant NHL players. We need them to be good complementary NHL guys, and that's exactly where they seem to be going.

Besides, apparently Nyquist is being showered with praise by scouts lately. They're saying stuff like he's too good for the AHL. I'd say that's a good indication that he is doing well and improving as a player. What more can we ask?

I don't think setting the bar at Crosby/Tavares is a realistic or even fair standard for a Wings prospect.

Guru Meditation is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:21 PM
  #495
MBauer
Registered User
 
MBauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 715
vCash: 500
not a good start for Mrazek.

MBauer is online now  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:37 PM
  #496
MBauer
Registered User
 
MBauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 715
vCash: 500
Sheahan with 2 goals so far.

edit* uh oh, Nyquist is injured

MBauer is online now  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:44 PM
  #497
MBauer
Registered User
 
MBauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 715
vCash: 500
Sheahan with a first period hatty!

3-2 griffs

MBauer is online now  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:45 PM
  #498
ProPAIN
Waar is da feestje?!
 
ProPAIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Paris
Country: Belgium
Posts: 11,347
vCash: 500
Natural hatty for Sheahan!!

ProPAIN is offline  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:48 PM
  #499
MBauer
Registered User
 
MBauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Natural hatty for Sheahan!!
I'm pretty sure a natural hatty would be 3 consecutive goals by the same player, icehogs scored two between sheahan's first

MBauer is online now  
Old
11-09-2012, 06:55 PM
  #500
TNigs
Registered User
 
TNigs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 160
vCash: 500
R.I.P. Philippe Paradis
He better keep his head up someone's going to be looking to hurt him after that hit on Nyquist.
I don't know it the AHL can change goals like the NHL but Sheahan after his 3rd goal said to Smith "That's only 2" so he didn't tip that Smith shot.

TNigs is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.