HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Grand Rapids Griffins 2012-13

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-22-2012, 10:20 AM
  #201
newfy
Registered User
 
newfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
I can't believe how physical this guy is. When we drafted him I remember reading reports that he can hit and is willing to, but I had no idea he was this physical. He seriously has shifts where he just hits everything that moves. Plus he's got great size, good defensively and has some offensive skill. Guy could be a great 4C for us down the road.
Yep I think hes gonna be a real solid 4th line center down the road. I've said Paul Gaustad is his ceiling/comparison except I think Aubry probably hits a lot more. Now that hes coming into his size a bit and getting used to it he seriously lays guys out. I've noticed though that out of probably everyone on the griffs, he probably gets hit hard the most because hes so skinny. Once he gets up to around 220 even he'll become a lot stronger in that regard and even more of a physical beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Ferraro is thin but man his willpower makes you forget about it.
I dont see him making the top 6 in the NHL, but he really is starting to look like a Helm type player for sure. You may forget about it now, but if/when he makes the NHL he'll need to add at least 10 lbs or his game just wont be effective. He needs to be a physical, speedy bottom 6 player. Put some more muscle on his legs and a bit in his upper body and hes set. 179 lbs is just plain and simple too small for that style of play in the NHL

newfy is offline  
Old
10-22-2012, 10:24 AM
  #202
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
During the last lockout when Kronwall had to spend the year in GR, he lit the place up.

I am not digging all of these reports about Smith. A player who can't be bothered to work hard or try to hone his game can't be counted on to progress into a top flight (or even an everyday, functional) NHL defenseman.

Someone needs to give that kid an enormous kick in the ass.
That's a very good point, Kronner was the AHL d-man of the year. Not impressed with Smith based on what I've read. He really needs to play his arse off.

Run the Jewels is offline  
Old
10-22-2012, 10:53 AM
  #203
joe89
#5
 
joe89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 18,382
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
That's a very good point, Kronner was the AHL d-man of the year. Not impressed with Smith based on what I've read. He really needs to play his arse off.
Valid points by both of you. Smith is not in a position to be slacking. A slow start is acceptable, but when you see those careless turnovers on a game to game basis it's not alright. Those are mistakes from lack of focus.

joe89 is offline  
Old
10-22-2012, 01:19 PM
  #204
ChadS
Registered User
 
ChadS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Finland
Posts: 3,077
vCash: 500
Friday's game will be on FSD, called by Ken and Mickey! http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/201...medium=twitter

ChadS is offline  
Old
10-22-2012, 01:28 PM
  #205
jaster
I pay off the mods.
 
jaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
Friday's game will be on FSD, called by Ken and Mickey! http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/201...medium=twitter
Awesome, thanks for posting. Looking forward to it. Something to watch in between games 2 and 3 of the WS

jaster is offline  
Old
10-22-2012, 05:25 PM
  #206
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,283
vCash: 500
Went ahead and just made it a thread for those that don't check up here. The live game part.

By the way for people pointing out Smith's fault on the first goal he pinches and makes an accurate drop pass to Nyquist who is caught trying a curl drag instead of firing the puck. He then drops too low when covering up after losing the puck and his guy scores. Sorry that is on Gus for me.

Smith does need to cut down on his turnovers and pick up his play. But having watched the replay today I thought he skated better and put a lot of pucks towards dangerous areas. Really the element that continues to surprise me is just how timid he is physically. Hope he isn't hurt in all honesty because I just haven't seen him play like this, really ever. I thought initially it might be to avoid injury with a roster spot insured if the NHL got going, but I am starting to wonder with the way he is playing if he isn't hiding something.

The Zetterberg Era is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 10:02 AM
  #207
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,335
vCash: 500
I know there were some people who were not impressed with Justin Schultz. I'm glad Ken Holland wasn't one of them because he's one former Wisconsin d-man who is actually tearing the AHL up:

Quote:
Schultz was named the game’s first star in the Barons’ home opener on Friday night, scoring two shorthanded goals, assisting on the game-winning goal, recording six shots and compiling a plus-5 rating in Oklahoma City’s 5-2 victory over San Antonio. The next night, Schultz scored again and earned second-star honors in a 5-3 loss to Lake Erie.

Schultz, 22, signed as a free agent with the Edmonton Oilers on June 30, 2012, after three seasons at the University of Wisconsin. Schultz was twice named the WCHA’s Defensive Player of the Year and was one of 10 finalists for the Hobey Baker Award in both 2010-11 and 2011-12. The native of West Kelowna, B.C., leads all AHL blueliners with four goals and is second with six points through four games with Oklahoma City this season.

Run the Jewels is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 10:24 AM
  #208
InjuredChoker
Registered User
 
InjuredChoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: LTIR or golf course
Posts: 24,861
vCash: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
I know there were some people who were not impressed with Justin Schultz. I'm glad Ken Holland wasn't one of them because he's one former Wisconsin d-man who is actually.
My reading comp. probably sucks but is this shot at Kenny, Smith, or someone on our board?

InjuredChoker is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 10:34 AM
  #209
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 14,798
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Went ahead and just made it a thread for those that don't check up here. The live game part.

By the way for people pointing out Smith's fault on the first goal he pinches and makes an accurate drop pass to Nyquist who is caught trying a curl drag instead of firing the puck. He then drops too low when covering up after losing the puck and his guy scores. Sorry that is on Gus for me.

Smith does need to cut down on his turnovers and pick up his play. But having watched the replay today I thought he skated better and put a lot of pucks towards dangerous areas. Really the element that continues to surprise me is just how timid he is physically. Hope he isn't hurt in all honesty because I just haven't seen him play like this, really ever. I thought initially it might be to avoid injury with a roster spot insured if the NHL got going, but I am starting to wonder with the way he is playing if he isn't hiding something.
If he's hurt, they should just sit him. Everyone knows what he can bring, and risking further injury isn't worth it.

__________________
RIP David
Winger98 is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 11:57 AM
  #210
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
My reading comp. probably sucks but is this shot at Kenny, Smith, or someone on our board?
It's not a shot at Holland, Schultz is legit.

Run the Jewels is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 12:16 PM
  #211
Henkka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 10,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
My reading comp. probably sucks but is this shot at Kenny, Smith, or someone on our board?
It's a shot against someone in this board.

Holland tried to sign Schultz, gave the maximum contract offer and guaranteed NHL roster spot.

He still chose the Oilers. What can you do other than respect Justin's decision.

Henkka is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 12:54 PM
  #212
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,283
vCash: 500
I am not big Schultz fan if that is who the shot is at. I think he is a solid player but have not bought him over the other Badgers I have seen play there. I still think Smith turns out to be the better pro. Schultz is certainly off to a nice start in the AHL of course he didn't want to go there to begin with. Kind of funny how that has worked out.

The Zetterberg Era is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 01:12 PM
  #213
kuick
Tatar Sauce
 
kuick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Grand Rapids
Country: United States
Posts: 2,725
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
My reading comp. probably sucks but is this shot at Kenny, Smith, or someone on our board?
Many, including myself, thought B. Smith to be a better prospect than Schultz. Granted, it's only been 4-5 games and Schultz is absolutely tearing it up playing with something to prove. Smith, now a seasoned veteran of the AHL should be on his level. Only been 4 games so there's plenty of time.

I don't think Smith has the same motivation right now as Schultz. He should have been in the NHL two years ago. The more important thing is watching Smith develop he's really improved his defensive abilities (at the AHL level anyways). Much more well rounded. I confess I haven't been able to watch Schultz in the AHL yet but I wonder how his D compares to Smith as a rookie.

kuick is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 01:42 PM
  #214
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuick View Post
Many, including myself, thought B. Smith to be a better prospect than Schultz. Granted, it's only been 4-5 games and Schultz is absolutely tearing it up playing with something to prove. Smith, now a seasoned veteran of the AHL should be on his level. Only been 4 games so there's plenty of time.

I don't think Smith has the same motivation right now as Schultz. He should have been in the NHL two years ago. The more important thing is watching Smith develop he's really improved his defensive abilities (at the AHL level anyways). Much more well rounded. I confess I haven't been able to watch Schultz in the AHL yet but I wonder how his D compares to Smith as a rookie.
I wouldn't read too much into it. Smith knows he belongs in the NHL now. The AHL is old-hat to him.

People want him to super excited about the AHL, but it's only human nature to get sick of playing below your level when you know you deserve more.

Motivation is a tricky thing. There are some fortunate enough to be 100 percent motivated no matter what the circumstances. But they are a rare breed.


I'm a bit more worried about Joakim Andersson, who hasn't shown he belongs in the NHL yet. He should be better.

And Almqvist's turnover the other day ... it's not the kind of thing you want to see from anyone, let alone from a guy who is small and slow and who is supposed to be an NHL prospect based on his passing and his brains.
But it;s early for him.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 07:16 PM
  #215
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I am not big Schultz fan if that is who the shot is at. I think he is a solid player but have not bought him over the other Badgers I have seen play there. I still think Smith turns out to be the better pro. Schultz is certainly off to a nice start in the AHL of course he didn't want to go there to begin with. Kind of funny how that has worked out.
It wasn't a shot at anyone in particular, just remembering that some people were unimpressed with him and were whining about having to offer him an NHL roster spot, which by the way ended up being irrelevant. I think it would be pretty exciting to have both Smith and Schultz on our defense going forward but obviously that is a moot point given Schultz signed with the Oil.

Run the Jewels is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 09:24 PM
  #216
sarcastro
Registered User
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I wouldn't read too much into it. Smith knows he belongs in the NHL now. The AHL is old-hat to him.

People want him to super excited about the AHL, but it's only human nature to get sick of playing below your level when you know you deserve more.

Motivation is a tricky thing. There are some fortunate enough to be 100 percent motivated no matter what the circumstances. But they are a rare breed.

I'm a bit more worried about Joakim Andersson, who hasn't shown he belongs in the NHL yet. He should be better.

And Almqvist's turnover the other day ... it's not the kind of thing you want to see from anyone, let alone from a guy who is small and slow and who is supposed to be an NHL prospect based on his passing and his brains.
But it;s early for him.
If Andersson turns out to be nothing, then who gives a rip.

If Smith turns out to be nothing, it's a big, big deal.

If Smith pisses away his talent and turns into recent Wade Redden, it's a big, big deal.

I don't really see how there's a comparison there. Smith needs to be the best player on the ice every single shift, every single night. And if he's not, he needs to work harder until he IS the best player on the ice.

sarcastro is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 11:10 PM
  #217
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,958
vCash: 500
Keep in mind Schultz is playing on a team that is leaps and bounds ahead of every other AHL team in terms of not only talent and potential, but proven NHL stars. The Baron's roster would probably beat a combined AHL all-star roster of all the other teams. It's highly unlikely he's playing too many high leverage minutes where the other team is dominating play for any stretch of time. Notable teammates for him:

C Jordan Eberle (drafted 1/22, 2008)
* 76pts in 78 games last season
* 2012 All-Star
C Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (drafted 1/1, 2011)
* 52pts in 62 games last season as an 18yr old
LW Magnus Paajarvi (drafted 1/10, 2009)
* 121 games in the NHL

Notable prospects/players:
C Tyler Pitlick (drafted 2/31, 2010)
LW Teemu Hartikainen (drafted, 6/163, 2008)
LW Curtis Hamilton (drafted 2/48, 2010)
C Anton Lander (drafted 2/40, 2009)
C Ryan Martindale (drafted 3/61, 2010)
D Alex Plante (drafted 1/15, 2007)
* AHL All-Star last season
D Martin Marincin (drafted 2/46, 2010)
G Yann Danis
* 2012 1st team All-AHL goalie

Oh, any Taylor Hall is expected to join this team too in the near future. It's a pretty stacked team with half (or more?) of the roster consisting of players drafted 61st or earlier and some bonafide NHL stars. Schultz isn't exactly on a team that will be very demanding on his to play strong defense. He can just play loose and offense-first because very few if any AHL teams will be able to mount much of a counterattack when he makes a bad decision or pass.

FissionFire is offline  
Old
10-24-2012, 11:25 PM
  #218
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 23,283
vCash: 500
Good points on Schultz, he plays on a team that finished near the top of the league and was a final 4 playoff team last year. I don't think people questioned whether or not he would be good at the AHL level. What he has done is impressive and I will eat a little crow at how impressive he has been. But if the Wings were axed for refusing a top 6 spot without competition I still am not sorry about it.

A lot of us have seen all these guys play at Wisconsin. The other big peers he has had from that program were slightly better at least in my opinion. Now even when he starts with the Oilers he is going to get a lot of opportunities and he is a gifted PP qb. But my concern has always been what he will look like out of the gate against the NHL talent. True he sees the other young guys during the lockout as not only OKC has a big first line hanging out in the AHL right now. But there are going to be growing pains when he lines up against the big boys in the NHL.

The Zetterberg Era is offline  
Old
10-25-2012, 12:25 AM
  #219
nik jr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Congo-Kinshasa
Posts: 10,793
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
Friday's game will be on FSD, called by Ken and Mickey! http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/201...medium=twitter
i hope there will be a stream.

anyone know?

nik jr is offline  
Old
10-25-2012, 01:57 AM
  #220
Guru Meditation
Service Unavailable
 
Guru Meditation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,532
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Keep in mind Schultz is playing on a team that is leaps and bounds ahead of every other AHL team in terms of not only talent and potential, but proven NHL stars. The Baron's roster would probably beat a combined AHL all-star roster of all the other teams. It's highly unlikely he's playing too many high leverage minutes where the other team is dominating play for any stretch of time.
I came here to say this. Schultz is basically playing on an all-star team while Smith appears to be playing injured on a team that wouldn't be a lock for the playoffs even if the lockout ended AND Nyquist/Tatar/Smith stayed. If those three made the Wings like they deserve to, the team would be absolutely awful.

It's topsy-turvy land. Edmonton's farm team is amazing. The Griffins, on the other hand, are the Edmonton (without the lottery picks) of the AHL. Bad culture, so-so talent, so-so coaching. Going nowhere fast.

Guru Meditation is online now  
Old
10-25-2012, 11:08 AM
  #221
Run the Jewels
Registered User
 
Run the Jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the Garage
Posts: 10,335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Keep in mind Schultz is playing on a team that is leaps and bounds ahead of every other AHL team in terms of not only talent and potential, but proven NHL stars. The Baron's roster would probably beat a combined AHL all-star roster of all the other teams. It's highly unlikely he's playing too many high leverage minutes where the other team is dominating play for any stretch of time. Notable teammates for him:

C Jordan Eberle (drafted 1/22, 2008)
* 76pts in 78 games last season
* 2012 All-Star
C Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (drafted 1/1, 2011)
* 52pts in 62 games last season as an 18yr old
LW Magnus Paajarvi (drafted 1/10, 2009)
* 121 games in the NHL

Notable prospects/players:
C Tyler Pitlick (drafted 2/31, 2010)
LW Teemu Hartikainen (drafted, 6/163, 2008)
LW Curtis Hamilton (drafted 2/48, 2010)
C Anton Lander (drafted 2/40, 2009)
C Ryan Martindale (drafted 3/61, 2010)
D Alex Plante (drafted 1/15, 2007)
* AHL All-Star last season
D Martin Marincin (drafted 2/46, 2010)
G Yann Danis
* 2012 1st team All-AHL goalie

Oh, any Taylor Hall is expected to join this team too in the near future. It's a pretty stacked team with half (or more?) of the roster consisting of players drafted 61st or earlier and some bonafide NHL stars. Schultz isn't exactly on a team that will be very demanding on his to play strong defense. He can just play loose and offense-first because very few if any AHL teams will be able to mount much of a counterattack when he makes a bad decision or pass.
Good points for sure, howeva:

1. Kronwall was dominant on an AHL team that didn't have more talent than this GR sqaud. Which is why some of us are griping about Smith's lackluster play. Smith actually got off to a fine start his rookie season as was averaging a point a game at the beginning of the year like Schultz is doing right now.

2. Schultz was dominant at the collegiate level. The major whine was "well it's college hockey, not pro". There's nothing to indicate there's any discernible drop off in his play.

3. He's scoring goals, not generating secondary assists.

I don't understand why people think he wasn't worth taking a shot and offering him a roster spot. We have a very obvious need given the total lack of depth. Two up and coming d-men like Smith and Schultz would help set us up quite nicely for the future.

As someone who has no problem bashing Holland when warranted, I give him full credit for aggressively going after Schultz. He's a fantastic hockey player.

Run the Jewels is offline  
Old
10-25-2012, 11:13 AM
  #222
Guru Meditation
Service Unavailable
 
Guru Meditation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,532
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
3. He's scoring goals, not generating secondary assists.
That's like saying goal scorers have no help. Scoring a goal is still usually a result of something done by your line to create space or get you the puck at the right moment.

But I'd argue it's one thing to take a successful AHL team and add really, really good players and another completely to take a terrible AHL team, change the coach, and keep a few NHL ready players. GR had little foundation to build on, while OKC had a great one.

Guru Meditation is online now  
Old
10-25-2012, 12:39 PM
  #223
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
If Andersson turns out to be nothing, then who gives a rip.

If Smith turns out to be nothing, it's a big, big deal.

If Smith pisses away his talent and turns into recent Wade Redden, it's a big, big deal.

I don't really see how there's a comparison there. Smith needs to be the best player on the ice every single shift, every single night. And if he's not, he needs to work harder until he IS the best player on the ice.
I guess, for one, I don't believe that 4 games in the AHL this season is anything to get antsy about.
Smith is who Smith is. He's a hot dog. He's undisciplined.
I never bought into the hype that he was a surefire top pairing guy in the first place.

I think it's absolutely ludicrous to expect Smith to be going at 100 percent in the AHL at this point.

He's 23. He should have been in the NHL a year ago, if not before. He's probably sick of the AHL.
He was drafted in 2007.
Other guys drafted in 07? Patrick Kane. Who scored a Stanley Cup winning goal 3 seasons ago -- to give you an idea of how slow the Wings have brought him along.
David Perron- drafted the pick before Smith. A guy who has been in the league so long that he's already suffered a substantial injury -- To give you an idea of how quickly this could all end for Smith, before he's even established himself as an NHLer.
Smith has played 14 games. 39 players drafted below Smith have played more games than Smith,.

When I watch Smith, I see a lot of Kyle Quincey. Hopefully he turns out better, and I think he will. But I think Smith is always going to have issues surrounding his game.

His work ethic in the AHL, at this point in his career, is not an issue for me.
He knows he's an NHLer now.

If he gets tot he NHL and plays disinterested hockey, I'll be concerned.

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
10-25-2012, 12:51 PM
  #224
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Good points for sure, howeva:

1. Kronwall was dominant on an AHL team that didn't have more talent than this GR sqaud. Which is why some of us are griping about Smith's lackluster play. Smith actually got off to a fine start his rookie season as was averaging a point a game at the beginning of the year like Schultz is doing right now.

2. Schultz was dominant at the collegiate level. The major whine was "well it's college hockey, not pro". There's nothing to indicate there's any discernible drop off in his play.

3. He's scoring goals, not generating secondary assists.

I don't understand why people think he wasn't worth taking a shot and offering him a roster spot. We have a very obvious need given the total lack of depth. Two up and coming d-men like Smith and Schultz would help set us up quite nicely for the future.

As someone who has no problem bashing Holland when warranted, I give him full credit for aggressively going after Schultz. He's a fantastic hockey player.
The Wings did make an offer. But the Wings also weren't going to go into the season with two rookies on defense when your other four guys include Quincey, White and Ericsson and Kronwall

RedWingsNow* is offline  
Old
10-25-2012, 12:52 PM
  #225
Anchor Town
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,008
vCash: 500
Is there really anyone here who was against giving Schultz a max contract? Can't remember anyone saying that we shouldn't but people keep bringing it up.

Anchor Town is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:25 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.