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The players have no choice than to accept next NHL proposal

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Old
01-24-2005, 07:12 PM
  #1
LastChancePrice
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The players have no choice than to accept next NHL proposal

I really think there will be hockey.Why? Simple.

I think the players didnt expect that the NHL will present a new proposal.And YES, this proposal WILL INCLUDE a salary cap.Why they will accept it? Because they have no choice.If they decide to refuse it again, we all know that next year a lot more players will become free agent.How many exactly? over 500 i think? ( correct me if im wrong ).Then with all those free agent, the NHL will have more people on their side anyway, to pass the famous salary cap.

If the nhlpa decide to refuse the salary cap.Its simple.Nearly all their players will have no job by next year.And im sure none want that.

Ohhh sure, they still can go steal jobs in europe...at 1/5 to 1/10 of what they can win in the nhl...

But a salary cap of 37 millions tho is ridiculous.Id go for a cap of 42-45 millions.

If nhlpa refuse the next nhl proposal, then we can just blamed the nhlpa to screw this season.Cause instead of working a cap that Bettman propose ( increase the cap of 37 to 42),they decide to cry like big babies in their corner.

GO NHL GO!

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01-24-2005, 07:19 PM
  #2
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Yeah I don't think there is going to be a season. The only werid thing to me about this whole thing is, that the players where crying NHL wont negotiate its over, we wont even fly to meet them for a proposal. Why are you meeting them then now unless you are ready to concede.

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01-24-2005, 07:22 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHfan4ever
we all know that next year a lot more players will become free agent.How many exactly? over 500 i think? ( correct me if im wrong ).
At the end of the 2005-06 season 85% of the players will be unsigned FA/RFA. That is not something they will want to deal with.

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01-24-2005, 07:24 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by Go Flames Go
Yeah I don't think there is going to be a season. The only werid thing to me about this whole thing is, that the players where crying NHL wont negotiate its over, we wont even fly to meet them for a proposal. Why are you meeting them then now unless you are ready to concede.
Maybe their not conceeding, maybe the league is meeting them midway and BOTH parties are finally willing to give a little and negotiate.

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01-24-2005, 07:28 PM
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The NHL intends to make a final offer to the NHL players' association Wednesday in Toronto in what will likely be the last chance to save the season.

"They want to bridge the gap and make the players take a hard look and then make a decision," an NHL source said.

The divide remains the salary cap, which Bettman wants to install. The union is against a hard cap, but would be amenable to a restrictive luxury tax system. The league will likely include a cap in this week's offer, but insiders say the plan is to sweeten it enough to make the union pause long enough to consider

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...orts-headlines

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01-24-2005, 07:29 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Icey
Maybe their not conceeding, maybe the league is meeting them midway and BOTH parties are finally willing to give a little and negotiate.
Yeah the NHL is gonna present a middle ground offer that should end the lockout if the players actually do care about making a deal which thus far they have not.

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01-24-2005, 08:28 PM
  #7
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the players have plenty of choice, not all of them pleasant. The players have no choice but to accept an unpalateable offer in order to save the season this year. The owners wont put their best offer forth until after the players have proven they can stick together I dont think. I dont think the players accept a cap. Its up to the owners to be creative and flexible

As the players tried to shock and awe the owners with a 24% rollback that split the owners, the owners will put forth a cap offer cleverly designed to split the union as it it sits over the summer thinking of it.

The owners have always accused Goodenow of being a deadline hunter. By sacrificing the season in their minds, they make his deadline to choose whether to accept a bad deal or not play. They seem to want to send a message and play it out a couple years.

Maybe the moderate owners insist the proposal be reasonable or allow negotiating room for Bettman and goodenow in the final minutes. If thats their plan, they played their hand well. Fooled me. Not that thats that hard. I dont think the hardline owners best endgame plays out this week. They will purposefully not craft an offer the players can accept.

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01-24-2005, 08:36 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
the players have plenty of choice, not all of them pleasant. The players have no choice but to accept an unpalateable offer in order to save the season this year. The owners wont put their best offer forth until after the players have proven they can stick together I dont think. I dont think the players accept a cap. Its up to the owners to be creative and flexible

As the players tried to shock and awe the owners with a 24% rollback that split the owners, the owners will put forth a cap offer cleverly designed to split the union as it it sits over the summer thinking of it.

The owners have always accused Goodenow of being a deadline hunter. By sacrificing the season in their minds, they make his deadline to choose whether to accept a bad deal or not play. They seem to want to send a message and play it out a couple years.

Maybe the moderate owners insist the proposal be reasonable or allow negotiating room for Bettman and goodenow in the final minutes. If thats their plan, they played their hand well. Fooled me. Not that thats that hard. I dont think the hardline owners best endgame plays out this week. They will purposefully not craft an offer the players can accept.
interesting points.

option 1) if the NHL's primary motive is to get cost certainty and hockey back:
NHL makes the sweetest structure they can within a linkage framework.

option 2) if the owners primary motive is to crush Goodenow and the players:
NHL makes the worst over it could and like you said above make hte players choose an aweful deal or no hockey.

i was thinking that Wednesday's offer would be the best deal the PA could ever expect to get from the NHL, however you have made me think the owners are determined to stick it to the PA and BG.

if thats the case, why all the BS from Bill Daly this week. If the NHL was going to hammer the players, wouldnt he be a lot less enthusiastic and even more ambigious in his comments ?

dr

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01-24-2005, 09:17 PM
  #9
thinkwild
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Daly is the good cop. He wants to make a deal that has a cap that if the owners attempted to declare impasse they could say, look we bargained fairly, even half the players would accept it if you force them to vote. If they are about to go into a 10 month negotiation void, the owners want to be out on a high ground with an offer that will splinter the pa's group and looking reasonable and bargaining in good faith.

Both sides are split and have internal differences. Many players dont see the point of the cap fight. Many of the owners dont need it. The 2 groups are trying to appeal to the majority of the other group. The owners want to bypass the players executive intimately aware of the big picture. The players want to bypass the owner hardliners. It seems to me from the couch.

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01-24-2005, 09:25 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
Daly is the good cop. He wants to make a deal that has a cap that if the owners attempted to declare impasse they could say, look we bargained fairly, even half the players would accept it if you force them to vote. If they are about to go into a 10 month negotiation void, the owners want to be out on a high ground with an offer that will splinter the pa's group and looking reasonable and bargaining in good faith.

Both sides are split and have internal differences. Many players dont see the point of the cap fight. Many of the owners dont need it. The 2 groups are trying to appeal to the majority of the other group. The owners want to bypass the players executive intimately aware of the big picture. The players want to bypass the owner hardliners. It seems to me from the couch.
i know what you are saying ... however

1) why would daly bother with this type of quote if they offer from the owners was going to be 10 steps back (to stick it to bob).

Quote:
He also insists the league is working hard at a deal.
Actually, I believe there's a better chance now," he said of reaching an agreement to end the dispute, "than there was before we had these meetings."

"We're trying to craft something that will work for both sides. And I can tell you that I think we're a lot closer than they're suggesting we are."
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=112256

2) some people here dont think impasse is even an option for the owners due to so many legal arena's and hurdles. why would they be framing their offer for impasse if they knew it could never happen to their benefit.

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01-24-2005, 09:31 PM
  #11
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[QUOTE=DR]
2) some people here dont think impasse is even an option for the owners due to so many legal arena's and hurdles. QUOTE]

Uh, I don't think so...

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01-24-2005, 09:35 PM
  #12
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[QUOTE=David]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR
2) some people here dont think impasse is even an option for the owners due to so many legal arena's and hurdles. QUOTE]

Uh, I don't think so...
you have yet to table anything other than drive by comments to convince anyone otherwise.

i am open minded to hearing a detailed post on why the owners will be able to overcome the issues raised by the people who say the owners will have trouble legally acheiving impasse. WEll, i think the argument is they might be able to get impasse, but there would be serious immigration problems to use replacement players.

ok ? so let us know, until then your contribution is meaningless if all you are going to do is offer nothing but a stupid comment.

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01-24-2005, 09:42 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
the players have plenty of choice, not all of them pleasant. The players have no choice but to accept an unpalateable offer in order to save the season this year. The owners wont put their best offer forth until after the players have proven they can stick together I dont think. I dont think the players accept a cap. Its up to the owners to be creative and flexible

As the players tried to shock and awe the owners with a 24% rollback that split the owners, the owners will put forth a cap offer cleverly designed to split the union as it it sits over the summer thinking of it.

The owners have always accused Goodenow of being a deadline hunter. By sacrificing the season in their minds, they make his deadline to choose whether to accept a bad deal or not play. They seem to want to send a message and play it out a couple years.

Maybe the moderate owners insist the proposal be reasonable or allow negotiating room for Bettman and goodenow in the final minutes. If thats their plan, they played their hand well. Fooled me. Not that thats that hard. I dont think the hardline owners best endgame plays out this week. They will purposefully not craft an offer the players can accept.
the nhl is gonna try and make it look like the player's blew off 05 - can these player's be treated any poorly - this is hardball for sure - good post

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01-24-2005, 09:44 PM
  #14
thinkwild
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1. that quote, coming on the heels of Batterman and the owners saying the players are widgets, will have no say, and will capitulate, would seem necessary to go out in a good light for the 2nd reflection period. Now the they have battered and softened them, up, they can make a minor concession from the hard line position. They will inch forward. Daly will craft something half the players will accept to get it over with. Its not really 10 steps back, its that its only a baby step forward from the abyss position.

2. I know what you are saying and agree that impasse seems an unlikely solution. But the legal waters are also ripe for testing. And the continued threat allows them to push forward slowly to try and get the players to acquiesce to a deal less than they was their bottom line. And this will take time.

Really impasse could be declared next week if they dont agree. What would they be waiting for? But I agree its not their plan. Just a useful delaying for threatening and wearing down tactic.

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01-24-2005, 10:22 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHfan4ever
If nhlpa refuse the next nhl proposal, then we can just blamed the nhlpa to screw this season.Cause instead of working a cap that Bettman propose ( increase the cap of 37 to 42),they decide to cry like big babies in their corner.

GO NHL GO!

This logic bothers me considerably.

How is it that the onus is on the players in this circumstance? Has it ever occurred to you that the owner's have little choice but to make concessions based on the timing of the negotiations?

If a whole season is cancelled the fan's support will reduce to a fraction of what it is now, the owners know this and care, the players know this and don't care (when it comes to the impact on revenues, mind you). They will also lose revenues from the most profitable point in the season (post Superbowl), which also is the most affordable portion of the season, regarding player's salaries that is.

The incentive for the players to return is shrinking, while it is growing for the owners. The season didn't start because the players did not make the deal sweet enough, it will be cancelled because the owners failed to do the exact same thing.


Last edited by ArizonaGreenTea: 01-24-2005 at 10:27 PM.
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01-24-2005, 10:33 PM
  #16
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Funny how the players say the NHL is not willing to negotiate. Why don't they just say "We have not agreed on a framework yet so we can't negotiate". The NHL can't negotiate becasue the players can't even discuss the posibilities of a cap. Nice job Goodenows doing. Every possibility should be discussed.

Lets see. The NHL is going to put forth the second proposal in a row. The NHL took a few days to read over the players last proposal. What did the players do with the NHL's last proposal? They rejected it on the spot. Yeah the PA really loves to negotiate as well. Both sides are the same. The players just look reciculous saying the NHL won't negotiate.

 
Old
01-24-2005, 10:34 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR
interesting points.

option 1) if the NHL's primary motive is to get cost certainty and hockey back:
NHL makes the sweetest structure they can within a linkage framework.

option 2) if the owners primary motive is to crush Goodenow and the players:
NHL makes the worst over it could and like you said above make hte players choose an aweful deal or no hockey.

i was thinking that Wednesday's offer would be the best deal the PA could ever expect to get from the NHL, however you have made me think the owners are determined to stick it to the PA and BG.

if thats the case, why all the BS from Bill Daly this week. If the NHL was going to hammer the players, wouldnt he be a lot less enthusiastic and even more ambigious in his comments ?

dr
The comments are because the NHL does not want to crush the union, they want a deal, perhaps they also want something that looks better to the majority of the PA's members.

If they were to completely crush the union they would not be able to implement the controls they wish (cap), neither would they be able to maintain controls that help develop/keep parity (RFA's, drafts, etc..).

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01-24-2005, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaraLeone
The comments are because the NHL does not want to crush the union, they want a deal, perhaps they also want something that looks better to the majority of the PA's members.

If they were to completely crush the union they would not be able to implement the controls they wish (cap), neither would they be able to maintain controls that help develop/keep parity (RFA's, drafts, etc..).
ok, then we should expect their next offer to be kinder in regards to arbitration, QO's, and even the rates of linkage ?

if what you are saying is true, they should be. if hte owners come back with more restrictions and a worse offer than last time, it will prove point 2.

there is good information detailing why the NHL probably wont go down impasse road.

dr

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01-24-2005, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
Daly will craft something half the players will accept to get it over with.
Perfect. That's all he should give up, anything more is a waste of the owners money.

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01-24-2005, 11:15 PM
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Whatever happen next wednesday, i hope they got plan for us, the fan.

I want: 1)Ticket prices reduction! 2) a better show 3) The elimination of those 1-0 games!!! 4 ) The return of the Nordiques! ( yeah i wish... )

Now lets pray that those "poor" players will come back on ice!!They have dogs to feed we all know that...

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01-25-2005, 09:35 AM
  #21
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IMO, reading between the lines and using a bit of common sense the new CBA is almost done. Lot's of misdirection plays and rhetoric but I'm predicting hockey by early February under a very creative phased in CBA that does include a linkage between revenues and salaries.

Stay tuned. This week is going to be very interesting. The players really don't have a choice. The owners have reached their predetermined goal for this CBA and have made the necessary concessions in the new proposal to get players to bite and to get them back to work.

Of course, McCabe, Pronger, Domi, Alfredson and many others will have to retire because there will be some form of cap in the agreement and we all know they are men of their words.

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01-25-2005, 10:13 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
Of course, McCabe, Pronger, Domi, Alfredson and many others will have to retire because there will be some form of cap in the agreement and we all know they are men of their words.
you forgot Esche.

DR

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01-25-2005, 10:15 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaraLeone
This logic bothers me considerably.

How is it that the onus is on the players in this circumstance? Has it ever occurred to you that the owner's have little choice but to make concessions based on the timing of the negotiations?

If a whole season is cancelled the fan's support will reduce to a fraction of what it is now, the owners know this and care, the players know this and don't care (when it comes to the impact on revenues, mind you). They will also lose revenues from the most profitable point in the season (post Superbowl), which also is the most affordable portion of the season, regarding player's salaries that is.

The incentive for the players to return is shrinking, while it is growing for the owners. The season didn't start because the players did not make the deal sweet enough, it will be cancelled because the owners failed to do the exact same thing.
The onus is on the players because if the season is cancelled, the owners will get less revenue and thus the players will have a lower cap when the play finally resumes.

Also, as every day passes, the players are losing money they can never get back.

The players should have negociated years ago when the owners wanted to, they would never have lost a single days pay, they would also have got the highest cap possible because the owners income wouldnt have been affected.

The players are cutting off their noses to spite their face.

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01-25-2005, 10:15 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR
you forgot Esche.

DR
you forgot Poland.

GWB

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01-25-2005, 10:16 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
IMO, reading between the lines and using a bit of common sense the new CBA is almost done. Lot's of misdirection plays and rhetoric but I'm predicting hockey by early February under a very creative phased in CBA that does include a linkage between revenues and salaries.

Stay tuned. This week is going to be very interesting. The players really don't have a choice. The owners have reached their predetermined goal for this CBA and have made the necessary concessions in the new proposal to get players to bite and to get them back to work.

Of course, McCabe, Pronger, Domi, Alfredson and many others will have to retire because there will be some form of cap in the agreement and we all know they are men of their words.
You will be sadly mistaken buddy, there will not be a season this year and next year. Its over the players are just to greedy.

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