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Who's Really to Blame?

View Poll Results: Who's at Fault?
Players 12 14.12%
Player Agents 13 15.29%
Owners 60 70.59%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-07-2012, 10:17 AM
  #26
HockeyGuruPitka
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I blame everyone but more so the players. If the league isnt able to self sustain without losing money then there is a problem. I consider the reasons as to why these teams are loosing money (player salary is greater then profit/weak hockey market). I then think about being a player myself, and the amount of players there are and realize these small market teams are needed to house the abundance of NHL talent. I then consider what some of the most critical people in society earn to work (doctors) and realize that the players are getting paid to play a sport they love, and dont feel bad whatsoever that they will have to downgrade from Castles to mansions and Porche's to Mercedes.

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09-07-2012, 10:19 AM
  #27
compan
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This may be an unpopular opinion, idk, but I'm not blaming the owners all that much more than others. Fact is, these guys are not owning teams to lose money and some are. I think I saw something saying the Nashville owner loses a couple million (MILLION) per year just to run the team. Granted, yes he has a plenty and its clearly affordable, but he didn't get to where he was making bad investments.
GMs need to stop handing out these massive contracts too. There are too many players being overpaid due to FA which is just driving up prices for all the other players.

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09-07-2012, 10:23 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jill Sandwich View Post
I've been reading HF for a while, so I'm pretty sure it's Brian Burke. It's his fault for everything.
Either that or Phillip Kessel

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Old
09-07-2012, 10:36 AM
  #29
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The Stupidity of all parties involved.

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09-07-2012, 10:51 AM
  #30
AUAIOMRN
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Everyone and no one.

The problem is the inherent monopoly that comes with pro sports. There is no real free market - the players can't just go to another league that will give them what they want, and the owners can't just go and find equivalent players that will play for what they want to pay.

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09-07-2012, 11:02 AM
  #31
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Everyone is to blame.

-Owners are to blame because they are their own worst enemy.

-Players are to blame because they can't accept 50/50, which would settle a lot of issues. Agents are part of this problem, they want as much of the pie possible.

-Fans are to blame because when the NHL jerked us around last time, we all came back in droves, proving that we are the NHL's beeotch.

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09-07-2012, 11:04 AM
  #32
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The NHL is just a very poorly run business. Too many bosses. It really needs one guy to run the show and make all the calls. Bettman has obviously failed. At this point he's just a talking head. The league needs a big personality with real business know how.

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09-07-2012, 11:17 AM
  #33
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
I actually really like this comment. The owners take all the risks.
Risks? When was the last time you saw an owner take a puck in the face, get stitched up, and return to the game? When did you ever pay good money to watch the owner of any sports franchise do anything? Sports are unlike most industries and can't be thought of in the conventional owner/employee manner, the only real comparison is with other entertainment fields, which is what sports are.

On topic: the owners cause their own problems and want the players to solve them.

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09-07-2012, 11:19 AM
  #34
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At this time neither .

These type of negotiations don't usually get settled without some type of lockout/strike . It's easy for the players to say increased revenue sharing would solve most of the problems but i don't see the players talking about salary sharing .

The sport is a business with both sides trying to get as much as possible and unfortunately the fans are stuck in the middle .

I hope i'm wrong but i don't think they'll be back before some time in December .
The players are. If its true that they are willing to go from 57% to 50% of the revenues then they are willing to give up 7% as long as that 7% goes to poorer market teams. Why should the players offer to lower thier revenue to 50% but yet the owners won't take that 7% and increase revenue sharing. Owners/GM brought this on themselves. Minni signed 2 huge contracts and Nashville decided match the Weber, how can they cry foul?

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09-07-2012, 11:28 AM
  #35
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One of the things that pisses me off is that although both the owners and players are being greedy, the players are speaking as one and have one common Opponent. Each owner has the NHLPA and 29 other owners as opponents. Do you think the owners of teams like the Rangers or Leafs want to give up some of their money to Columbus or New Jersey?

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09-07-2012, 11:31 AM
  #36
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Owners 43% and Players 57% of revenue.

But when all is said and done and the lawyers have gotten to do their thing, do the owners still only end up with 43% of the hockey pie?

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09-07-2012, 11:36 AM
  #37
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Get rid of the cap revenue sharing is fine, but get rid of the cap if a team can spend 20 million on the team so be it as long as they make money.

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09-07-2012, 11:37 AM
  #38
middletoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanahanigans View Post
One of the things that pisses me off is that although both the owners and players are being greedy, the players are speaking as one and have one common Opponent. Each owner has the NHLPA and 29 other owners as opponents. Do you think the owners of teams like the Rangers or Leafs want to give up some of their money to Columbus or New Jersey?
They are working as one through Mr. Bettman aren't they?


Last edited by middletoe: 09-07-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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Old
09-07-2012, 11:49 AM
  #39
Choralone
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Unless teams have roughly equal resources, you're always going to need sensible revenue sharing to go hand-in-hand with a salary cap. Otherwise, you get small-revenue teams spending below the cap that still can't make a profit, and large-revenue teams that feel constrained by the cap and are always looking for ways to circumvent it.

To me a professional sports league is more like a single conglomerate where the official competition is outside (other sports and entertainment businesses in this case) but the individual teams compete inside for limited resources - much like rival corporate divisions. Teams don't really compete against each other (apart from on the ice) except in instances with geographic overlap. But even then, fan identification creates an extremely high brand loyalty making it unlikely one team will steal another's fans.

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09-07-2012, 11:54 AM
  #40
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Players. I wish the players would realise that hockey is a game, and that they would play for their love of the game. Right now, they are playing for their love of money.

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Old
09-07-2012, 12:15 PM
  #41
Shanahanigans
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middletoe View Post
They are working as one through Mr. Bettman aren't they?
Yes, but part of the CBA is the whole revenue sharing between owners. While the main disagreement is the HRR and its percentage between the owners and the NHLPA, there are other parts of the CBA such as revenue sharing that cause disagreement between owners.

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09-07-2012, 12:30 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NewtJorden View Post
Players. I wish the players would realise that hockey is a game, and that they would play for their love of the game. Right now, they are playing for their love of money.
I hate to shatter your world view, but you can't pay bills, pay tuition, pay whathaveyou with "the love of the game". And you certainly can't retire on it.

The players have a very small window of time to get paid, relative to a "normal" 9-5 job. If a normal person finds a career path, they can work there for 30-40 years with little to no change (assuming they're competent in their job), well into their 50s and 60s. When an NHLer makes the big league, they've got anywhere from 10 to 20 years, if they're lucky. Their career ends in the upper 30s.

Can you see why it might be important to make (and save) as much money as possible during that time period?

Both sides are greedy, but both sides have legitimate reasons to become so. The owners (well, most of them) are losing money annually, and thus their desire to earn more money from here on out stems from that fact. No one likes to lose money. The players have their post-hockey life to think about, and thus their desire to earn more money from here on out stems from a need for security (for them and their family) post-hockey career.

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09-07-2012, 12:40 PM
  #43
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Owners

They're the ones that decide how much to play for players and are the ones that make the decisions that are supposedly hurting the league. The players are just doing what anyone else in their right minds would be doing, letting other folks throw money at them for their skills.

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Old
09-07-2012, 12:47 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanahanigans View Post
One of the things that pisses me off is that although both the owners and players are being greedy, the players are speaking as one and have one common Opponent. Each owner has the NHLPA and 29 other owners as opponents. Do you think the owners of teams like the Rangers or Leafs want to give up some of their money to Columbus or New Jersey?
those owners should realize that a monkey can own a team in those markets and turn a profit.

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09-07-2012, 12:51 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Risks? When was the last time you saw an owner take a puck in the face, get stitched up, and return to the game? When did you ever pay good money to watch the owner of any sports franchise do anything? Sports are unlike most industries and can't be thought of in the conventional owner/employee manner, the only real comparison is with other entertainment fields, which is what sports are.
Physical risks are a seperate issue. This is about financial risks. And quite frankly, the players are more resistant than anyone to measures that will reduce their physical risks. Most injuries are caused by other memebers of their own union.

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09-07-2012, 12:56 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
I hate to shatter your world view, but you can't pay bills, pay tuition, pay whathaveyou with "the love of the game". And you certainly can't retire on it.

The players have a very small window of time to get paid, relative to a "normal" 9-5 job. If a normal person finds a career path, they can work there for 30-40 years with little to no change (assuming they're competent in their job), well into their 50s and 60s. When an NHLer makes the big league, they've got anywhere from 10 to 20 years, if they're lucky. Their career ends in the upper 30s.

Can you see why it might be important to make (and save) as much money as possible during that time period?

Both sides are greedy, but both sides have legitimate reasons to become so. The owners (well, most of them) are losing money annually, and thus their desire to earn more money from here on out stems from that fact. No one likes to lose money. The players have their post-hockey life to think about, and thus their desire to earn more money from here on out stems from a need for security (for them and their family) post-hockey career.
Yeah, i didnt really thought about that side of it

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Old
09-07-2012, 01:00 PM
  #47
WarriorofTime
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Everyone assumes Owners are just greedy billionaires who make millions every year off their team. Many owners lose a lot of money every year running their team. It's simply not affordable for them to have the players take a larger share of revenue and not possible for the league to be operable at its current capacity. If the Shea Webers of the world have to make $10 million next year instead of $14 million then I'm not going to feel too terrible for them.

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09-07-2012, 01:04 PM
  #48
WarriorofTime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
I hate to shatter your world view, but you can't pay bills, pay tuition, pay whathaveyou with "the love of the game". And you certainly can't retire on it.

The players have a very small window of time to get paid, relative to a "normal" 9-5 job. If a normal person finds a career path, they can work there for 30-40 years with little to no change (assuming they're competent in their job), well into their 50s and 60s. When an NHLer makes the big league, they've got anywhere from 10 to 20 years, if they're lucky. Their career ends in the upper 30s.

Can you see why it might be important to make (and save) as much money as possible during that time period?

Both sides are greedy, but both sides have legitimate reasons to become so. The owners (well, most of them) are losing money annually, and thus their desire to earn more money from here on out stems from that fact. No one likes to lose money. The players have their post-hockey life to think about, and thus their desire to earn more money from here on out stems from a need for security (for them and their family) post-hockey career.
If you only play 3 years in the league at an average salary of $3.33 million a year then you'd retire with $10 million in career earnings. How many people that work into their 50s and 60s do you think earn $10 million over their lifetime? It's nobody fault but the individual players if some athletes have no clue how to manage money.

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Old
09-07-2012, 01:13 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
If you only play 3 years in the league at an average salary of $3.33 million a year then you'd retire with $10 million in career earnings. How many people that work into their 50s and 60s do you think earn $10 million over their lifetime? It's nobody fault but the individual players if some athletes have no clue how to manage money.
Well, if a player's making that much per year, then they're likely one of the best several hundred at their job in the entire world. I think you'd find that in most businesses, if you're in that level of elite, you are paid fairly significant amounts, too.

If someone were say, the 200th best attorney in the world, then odds are that they'd not only make that much per year, but well over that. Heck, the 1,000th best attorney probably makes well more than that, too. And I'm sure that the 10,000th best attorney makes more than the league minimum, too.

Same for doctors. Or business executives. Or just about any other field you can imagine.

Professional athletes, for all intents and purposes, are businesses of their own, with unique revenue creating opportunities, abilities to increase value/earnings, marketability/sponsorship concerns, etc., etc. Moaning about how they should just do it for the love of the game completely disregards how hard they work, how good they are at what they do, how much revenue they help create, and any number of other factors.

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Old
09-07-2012, 01:18 PM
  #50
Ceremony
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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
The correct answer is everyone, hence everyone should be a part of the solution.
Yep. Anyone who is involved in creating this problem is to blame. I would edge it towards the owners and the league for handing out contracts they now seemingly want to outlaw though.

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