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Montréal Canadiens vs. Toronto Maple Leafs

View Poll Results: Who will finish higher in 2012/13?
Habs 171 67.59%
Leafs 82 32.41%
Voters: 253. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-16-2012, 08:39 PM
  #101
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Leafs fan saying Habs.

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Old
09-16-2012, 09:58 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I was going to post something similar to that. Montreal has a clear #1 Goalie and finished worse then the Leafs, when on paper they should have finished higher based on Price alone.
Basic understanding of hockey is just.... missing.

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Old
09-16-2012, 11:04 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
Habs because the Leafs were in the playoffs for much of the season but ended up finishing 26th in the league. If they continue playing the same way they were they will finish dead last by about 40 points.
For 6 seasons in a row, the Leafs late seasons heroics, were shown
to be just mirages.

Why is a bad finish, not so?

The Leafs did do something, which they never achieved, in the past
few seasons. Spend a lot of time in a playoff position. They didn't
regress, their coach lost the room.

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Old
09-17-2012, 01:15 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
For 6 seasons in a row, the Leafs late seasons heroics, were shown
to be just mirages.

Why is a bad finish, not so?

The Leafs did do something, which they never achieved, in the past
few seasons. Spend a lot of time in a playoff position. They didn't
regress, their coach lost the room.
Giving up a on a coach when you are in a playoff position spot for several weeks in a row, something that the franchise didn't achieve for years, and at that moment they give up on him? Shows a lot about the character (or lack) and fragility between the ears of that locker room.

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Old
09-29-2012, 01:50 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
The anti-Leafs bias on this site is hilarious.
It's not always about being anti-Leafs, folks here just don't have any "faith" in your team, and really, how can you blame them?

Let's use another underachieving team as an example. You know how the Sharks are often seen as a disappointment because they've yet to win a Stanley Cup or even reach the Finals? Well, within that same time period (post-Joe Thornton trade), the Leafs haven't even managed to make the playoffs.

Naturally, the Sharks tend to be very underrated around these boards. If a far better team like San Jose "gets no respect", how do you expect people to have high(ish) expectations for the Leafs?

Edit: Montreal isn't far behind either by the way, 2010 is beginning to look like a fluke. And after last season, I can finally empathize with Leafs fans. Hang in there.


Last edited by SB164: 09-29-2012 at 02:02 AM.
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Old
09-29-2012, 07:13 AM
  #106
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The habs having Price is most certainly an advantage. The fact that they were awful with him last year is quite a silly reason to suggest a repeat performance. Additionally I think their entire lineup looks promising, at least potentially as good as some playoff teams last year (pheonix, new jersey come to mind). The leafs may have a forward group that will produce similarly to the canadiens, but the habs definately have the advantage in defense and goaltending. I'm actually a bit surprised by how much I like Montreals lineup.

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Old
09-30-2012, 09:33 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
The anti-Leafs bias on this site is hilarious.
What ever lets you sleep at night.

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Old
10-01-2012, 02:27 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
For 6 seasons in a row, the Leafs late seasons heroics, were shown
to be just mirages.

Why is a bad finish, not so?

The Leafs did do something, which they never achieved, in the past
few seasons. Spend a lot of time in a playoff position. They didn't
regress, their coach lost the room.
The Leafs started the season with a 9-3-1 record in their first 13 games because Kessel and Lupul put up 18 goals and 37 points.

Then they posted a non-playoff like .500 record with 43 points in 40 games. That's before the collapse in the last third of the season.

The collapse resulted in 7 wins & 18 points in 29 games.

The team did regress because it couldn't count on Kessel and Lupul averaging 3 points a game. They spent much of the middle of the season playing at the level the Leafs have played at the past few years. In the end, the collapse to close out the year was over twice as long as the hot streak to start the year.

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Old
10-01-2012, 10:21 AM
  #109
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So the leafs add JVR and Mcclement and the Habs add Prust and a guy that cant even make the leafs...

Leafs were in the playoffs for 3/4 of last season until their collapse and montreal was a bottom feeder all year long.. yet people still think they will be better next year. HAHA

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Old
10-01-2012, 10:34 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
So the leafs add JVR and Mcclement and the Habs add Prust and a guy that cant even make the leafs...

Leafs were in the playoffs for 3/4 of last season until their collapse and montreal was a bottom feeder all year long.. yet people still think they will be better next year. HAHA
Habs made the playoffs 5 times since 04, Leafs made it 0. Maybe, just maybe last year was a fluke for the habs, like the devils in 2010 or the flyers of 06-07.

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Old
10-01-2012, 10:38 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
So the leafs add JVR and Mcclement and the Habs add Prust and a guy that cant even make the leafs...

Leafs were in the playoffs for 3/4 of last season until their collapse and montreal was a bottom feeder all year long.. yet people still think they will be better next year. HAHA
Yea, just leave out the return of Gionta,Markov, Moen and White who all missed over half the year except for Moen who still missed 34 games.

You also forget to mention the Leafs don't Schenn anymore, whereas Montreal had no big subtractions this offseason.

Toronto's still very weak down the middle and in net, not to mention a defence that gave up the second most goals in the league and had the 3rd worst PK...

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Old
10-01-2012, 11:19 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Yea, just leave out the return of Gionta,Markov, Moen and White who all missed over half the year except for Moen who still missed 34 games.

You also forget to mention the Leafs don't Schenn anymore, whereas Montreal had no big subtractions this offseason.

Toronto's still very weak down the middle and in net, not to mention a defence that gave up the second most goals in the league and had the 3rd worst PK...
Schenn was basically our 5/6th defense man last year. Not a huge subtraction when Holzer, Franson, Rielly, Blacker, and Frasor are all itching for a full time spot to open up on the roster.

Leafs positional competition is going up. We have the same line-up with a lot of our top end prospects pushing for spots.

Toronto's NHL ready depth blows Montreal's out of the water. Injuries happen, and when they do where will Montreal turn?
Kadri, Ashton, D'Amigo, Scott, Colborne, Frattin, Rielly, Blacker, Holzer are all going to be given an opportunity to bump someone from a spot. Zero entitlement on this team. Those who perform will play. When someone goes down in Toronto their will be a young gun drooling to take his spot for the long term. Connolly, Lombardi, Kulemin all basically played some of the worst hockey in their careers last season. I don't count on that happening again.

I am banking on a rebound season for Reimer. He never regained his composure after Gionta gave him a concussion early in the season. Up until that point he was giving the leafs .913% save percentage.

I believe Burke has already postured a trade for when the new CBA.

I do agree that you make a good argument. However theres no way your going to change my mind and im sure the same is likely for you.

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Old
10-01-2012, 12:22 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Schenn was basically our 5/6th defense man last year. Not a huge subtraction when Holzer, Franson, Rielly, Blacker, and Frasor are all itching for a full time spot to open up on the roster.

Leafs positional competition is going up. We have the same line-up with a lot of our top end prospects pushing for spots.

Toronto's NHL ready depth blows Montreal's out of the water. Injuries happen, and when they do where will Montreal turn?
Kadri, Ashton, D'Amigo, Scott, Colborne, Frattin, Rielly, Blacker, Holzer are all going to be given an opportunity to bump someone from a spot. Zero entitlement on this team. Those who perform will play. When someone goes down in Toronto their will be a young gun drooling to take his spot for the long term. Connolly, Lombardi, Kulemin all basically played some of the worst hockey in their careers last season. I don't count on that happening again.

I am banking on a rebound season for Reimer. He never regained his composure after Gionta gave him a concussion early in the season. Up until that point he was giving the leafs .913% save percentage.

I believe Burke has already postured a trade for when the new CBA.

I do agree that you make a good argument. However theres no way your going to change my mind and im sure the same is likely for you.
Pretty big subtraction in the hitting department. He's not the best defenseman but he hits a ton which is definitely useful.

On defense? To Beaulieu, Tinordi or Ellis. On forward? Leblanc, Geoffrion, Gallagher, Bournival, Holland, Galchenyuk, Palushaj, Avtsin. In net we're obviously screwed.

I don't buy that "zero entitlement" thing. Veteran players have one-way contracts so it's not like if they're performing badly they'll just be thrown to the minors and their spot given to a young guy. And even if those guys move up to fill the spot of an injured player, whose to say how well they'll perform in the NHL? Leafs do have a lot of depth but not really any stars except for Reilly who likely won't play this season. That's true, but it's always possible other players will slump as well. I highly doubt Lupul repeats his numbers from last season.

Definitely possible, but he could also continue at the rate he was going at the 2nd half of last year which was not good enough to get them to the playoffs. And the media always says Burke has something going and it rarely pans out, but we'll see.

Oh obviously, we're both die-hard fans of each team, but debating is fun!

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Old
10-01-2012, 11:51 PM
  #114
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Pains me to say it but habs. However it's for ONE reason and one reason only, Carey Price.

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10-02-2012, 12:06 AM
  #115
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As a Leafs fan, I hate every team in the north east(except Buffalo), but would have no problem saying Boston and even Ottawa(*shudders*) are better then the Leafs.

Can't say the same about the Habs. I look at that forward core and it's so blah, but goaltending great obviously. The homer in me will say the Leafs but truth is it's pretty even and it can go either way.

Forwards=Leafs
Defense=Equal
Goal=Habs by large margin.

IMO. If you want to look fairly, you should look at head-to-head stats. If I remember correctly the Leafs-Habs season series have been tied 3 games a piece for like 3 seasons?

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Old
10-02-2012, 01:10 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
habs had Price last year and still finished behind the Leafs. I don't think it's the slam dunk the poll makes it look like.
On the flipside, the Habs had 450 man games lost to injury while 2 Leafs had career years.

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Old
10-02-2012, 01:49 PM
  #117
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C - Habs
W - Leafs
D - Habs
G - Habs

All are pretty clear cut, with the exception some Leaf fans might disagree about D

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Old
10-02-2012, 02:15 PM
  #118
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Just wondering... Why does everybody just assume that Markov, whose played a combined 65 games in the last 3 seasons, will play so well and be a big difference maker?

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10-02-2012, 03:09 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
So the leafs add JVR and Mcclement and the Habs add Prust and a guy that cant even make the leafs...

Leafs were in the playoffs for 3/4 of last season until their collapse and montreal was a bottom feeder all year long.. yet people still think they will be better next year. HAHA
That has to be the most, stupid, overused excuse ever. The bottom-line is that you ended up in the lottery and missed the playoff for a 7th time... in the last 7 years.

The Habs, on the other hand, have been a constant playoff team since the lock-out and played surprisingly below their standards last season, which I believe is strongly related to the fact they couldn't count on their number 1 defenseman for most of the year.

The Habs have somewhat of a viable alibi to justify the failure of a season they had in 11-12. The Leafs? Business as usual. Short hot-streak that put them in the playoff picture for a while, and then they fell back to earth in dramatic fashion.

We keep hearing that the Leafs "are going to build on their winning streak from last season, they'll make the playoffs!". Wouldn't it mean that they'll build on their losing streak from last season in 12-13? Burke didn't address any of the Leafs' positions of weakness, except changing the coach. Will it be enough to push them into the playoffs... That remains to be determined.

As of right now, it's hard to go against the Habs in this particular situation.

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10-02-2012, 03:22 PM
  #120
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Habs but neither team makes the playoffs

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10-02-2012, 04:01 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMLKesselftw View Post
Just wondering... Why does everybody just assume that Markov, whose played a combined 65 games in the last 3 seasons, will play so well and be a big difference maker?
1. Between the lockout and when he got injured, he was 2nd in points among defenseman behind Nick Lidstrom.

2. Even if he's slowed down a bit he's still an upgrade over the guys they had playing last year like Campoli, St. Denis and Weber

3. His mind and fantastic hockey sense is what made him one of the best PP QB's in the league and that's still as sharp as ever.

4. Josh Gorges had knee surgery, missed a significant amount of time and came back better than ever.

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10-03-2012, 12:15 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
As a Leafs fan, I hate every team in the north east(except Buffalo), but would have no problem saying Boston and even Ottawa(*shudders*) are better then the Leafs.

Can't say the same about the Habs. I look at that forward core and it's so blah, but goaltending great obviously. The homer in me will say the Leafs but truth is it's pretty even and it can go either way.

Forwards=Leafs
Defense=Equal
Goal=Habs by large margin.

IMO. If you want to look fairly, you should look at head-to-head stats. If I remember correctly the Leafs-Habs season series have been tied 3 games a piece for like 3 seasons?
I agree with your assessment with Markov unhealthy (which I would NOT be surprised if he is). But I think a healthy defensive core for the Habs gives them an edge defensively over the Leafs for next year.

I think the Leafs have great prospects, but for next year, a healthy defense would give a definite edge to the Habs.

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10-03-2012, 12:47 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
For 6 seasons in a row, the Leafs late seasons heroics, were shown
to be just mirages.

Why is a bad finish, not so?

The Leafs did do something, which they never achieved, in the past
few seasons. Spend a lot of time in a playoff position. They didn't
regress, their coach lost the room.
Wins early in the season are no more or less significant than wins late in the season. If there's anything to be learned by the seasons where the Leafs sucked, then finished hot, only to suck again next season, it's that a large sample size is a better predictor of future success than a small sample size. The largest sample size we have from last year is the whole season, and over the season as a whole we weren't very good.

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Old
10-03-2012, 02:12 PM
  #124
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Leafs will finish higher in the standings but I think the Habs have the better team in the future going forward(better talented prospects) and Carey Price which the Leafs don't have

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