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Old
12-15-2012, 01:32 AM
  #701
NYRFAN218
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Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan
Source: Mets and Blue Jays on the verge of deal that would send R.A. Dickey to Toronto, Travis D'Arnaud to Mets. Teams looking at medicals.

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There would be more players involved in the trade than Dickey and D'Arnaud. They are the principals.

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12-15-2012, 01:32 AM
  #702
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan
Source: Mets and Blue Jays on the verge of deal that would send R.A. Dickey to Toronto, Travis D'Arnaud to Mets. Teams looking at medicals.

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan
There would be more players involved in the trade than Dickey and D'Arnaud. They are the principals.

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan
As much as I hate to see Dickey go, that's a good trade.

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12-15-2012, 01:38 AM
  #703
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No, my idea is not to trade him for garbage. Arencibia is awful. Get fair value.

I'll gladly do Dickey for D'Arnaud. If not, i'll enjoy watching an elite pitcher pitch for my team. The enjoyment from that'll be more than watching Arencibia and some other scrubs stink it up for a little bit.
OK, well I never said to trade him for garbage. I just said the Mets should trade him now while his value is sky high and they can land a blue chip prospect.

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12-15-2012, 03:43 AM
  #704
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Is it wrong to want a bit more than just D'Arnaud? Hell of a prospect, but I want just a bit more value along with him.

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12-15-2012, 06:42 AM
  #705
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Sounds like the deal will expand. I wonder who else we give up. Murphy? A C-level prospect like Den Dekker?

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12-15-2012, 07:18 AM
  #706
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Sounds like the deal will expand. I wonder who else we give up. Murphy? A C-level prospect like Den Dekker?
Move Murphy, and you need a 2nd baseman. I'd be okay adding Den Dekker if Gose is in the deal.

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12-15-2012, 02:05 PM
  #707
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The Mets better be certain this doesn't turn into the David Cone trade all over again from twenty years ago (Kent was a bad fit in NY and Ryan Thompson never did much at the MLB level).

Gose I like because he's built for a big park like Citi and they could use some base stealers.

D'Arnaud has a lot of potential but why would the Jays be willing to trade him? Knee and back injuries for a catcher? Not sold.

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12-15-2012, 02:43 PM
  #708
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D'Arnaud has a lot of potential but why would the Jays be willing to trade him? Knee and back injuries for a catcher? Not sold.

Back injury was in 2010. Knee injury was a freak injury more than anything. He was landed on when he slid into 2nd base.

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12-15-2012, 02:48 PM
  #709
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Baseball prospects suck, they are by far the least predictable of any sport. Trading away the most watchable pitcher in the game will be a mistake for an otherwise unwatchable team. If they do this I'm going to try to be done with this team. I'll try to root for the blue jays instead, they already have Reyes who we ****ed over.

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12-15-2012, 02:54 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Baseball prospects suck, they are by far the least predictable of any sport. Trading away the most watchable pitcher in the game will be a mistake for an otherwise unwatchable team. If they do this I'm going to try to be done with this team. I'll try to root for the blue jays instead, they already have Reyes who we ****ed over.
Dickey is 38 years old and his value has never been higher. The Mets have glaring holes at catcher and every single outfield position and more likely than not aren't going to compete this year. It's almost a no brainer to make a deal and get top prospects for Dickey. I'd completely agree with you if Dickey was 10 years younger but that isn't the case here.

If this deal goes through, we'll have some solid prospects in Wheeler, Harvey, and d'Arnaud to go along with our core of Niese, Wright, and Ike. This team is going in the right direction IMO and that's the first time I can say that in about 6 years.

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12-15-2012, 02:56 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Baseball prospects suck, they are by far the least predictable of any sport. Trading away the most watchable pitcher in the game will be a mistake for an otherwise unwatchable team. If they do this I'm going to try to be done with this team. I'll try to root for the blue jays instead, they already have Reyes who we ****ed over.

Reyes walked for nothing. You want Dickey walking for nothing too?

Beltran fetched Wheeler who is one the best pitching prospects in baseball right now and could be up as early as mid-season.

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12-15-2012, 03:05 PM
  #712
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Reyes walked for nothing. You want Dickey walking for nothing too?

Beltran fetched Wheeler who is one the best pitching prospects in baseball right now and could be up as early as mid-season.
They did get compensation picks for Reyes so it wasn't like it was nothing but yeah they could have gotten more if they dealt him which they should have.

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12-15-2012, 03:28 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Dickey is 38 years old and his value has never been higher. The Mets have glaring holes at catcher and every single outfield position and more likely than not aren't going to compete this year. It's almost a no brainer to make a deal and get top prospects for Dickey. I'd completely agree with you if Dickey was 10 years younger but that isn't the case here.

If this deal goes through, we'll have some solid prospects in Wheeler, Harvey, and d'Arnaud to go along with our core of Niese, Wright, and Ike. This team is going in the right direction IMO and that's the first time I can say that in about 6 years.
The Mets aren't going to compete for a while. So don't trade the one reason to go to the ballpark in Dickey. Again, baseball prospects are such crapshoots it's not worth losing the most interesting pitcher in the game, arguably ever, for one or two of them. There's no reason to think Dickey is about to start a steep decline, he's been old for a few years now and only been getting better. He takes care of himself and he's the only person to ever throw the kind of stuff he's throwing.

I don't think some people realize how special Dickey is. I want him to remain a Met for the rest of his career and retire with us. I don't expect us to win anytime soon, and I don't think getting more gamble prospects will change that, so I'd really love to be able to at least watch history once every five games.

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Reyes walked for nothing. You want Dickey walking for nothing too?

Beltran fetched Wheeler who is one the best pitching prospects in baseball right now and could be up as early as mid-season.
That wasn't Reyes's fault, we didn't even offer him a deal. And no, I want to lock Dickey up and have him finish his career here.

Yeah, we'll see if Wheeler amounts to anything. Comparing Beltran to Dickey doesn't make sense. Dickey is better at what he does, and has the chance to go down as one of the best Mets of all time. Beltran was always seen more as a mercenary.

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12-15-2012, 03:36 PM
  #714
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As per Amazin' Avenue:

3:15 pm: The Mets would send Dickey, Josh Thole, and another player to Toronto. Toronto would send Travis d’Arnaud, John Buck, and minor league pitchers Noah Syndergaard and Aaron Sanchez to the Mets (Puma, NY Post and McCullough, Star Ledger).

The "another player" from the Mets is rumored to be Duda.

Now, this is just a rumor. The entire deal is a rumor. But this would be a very, very nice trade for the Mets if they don't add in anything of huge value.

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12-15-2012, 04:05 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
The Mets aren't going to compete for a while. So don't trade the one reason to go to the ballpark in Dickey. Again, baseball prospects are such crapshoots it's not worth losing the most interesting pitcher in the game, arguably ever, for one or two of them. There's no reason to think Dickey is about to start a steep decline, he's been old for a few years now and only been getting better. He takes care of himself and he's the only person to ever throw the kind of stuff he's throwing.

I don't think some people realize how special Dickey is. I want him to remain a Met for the rest of his career and retire with us. I don't expect us to win anytime soon, and I don't think getting more gamble prospects will change that, so I'd really love to be able to at least watch history once every five games.



That wasn't Reyes's fault, we didn't even offer him a deal. And no, I want to lock Dickey up and have him finish his career here.

Yeah, we'll see if Wheeler amounts to anything. Comparing Beltran to Dickey doesn't make sense. Dickey is better at what he does, and has the chance to go down as one of the best Mets of all time. Beltran was always seen more as a mercenary.

As a neutral observer, the Mets aren't doing anything this year with or without Dickey. Why just continue the mediocrity when you could take further steps toward contending by trading away a 38 year old pitcher? D'arnaud is the best catching prospect in baseball. They desperately need someone there, their fielding prospects suck as a whole. Suck it up for a year and then go to the ball park every ****ing game in 2-3 years when the Mets can contend.

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12-15-2012, 04:12 PM
  #716
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As a neutral observer, the Mets aren't doing anything this year with or without Dickey. Why just continue the mediocrity when you could take further steps toward contending by trading away a 38 year old pitcher? D'arnaud is the best catching prospect in baseball. They desperately need someone there, their fielding prospects suck as a whole. Suck it up for a year and then go to the ball park every ****ing game in 2-3 years when the Mets can contend.
You're ignoring the very high possibility that the prospects bust. Then we lose Dickey and we continue to suck even in a few years.

People act like real life is like a video game where potential is a known quantity and projecting the future is simple. It's not, especially in baseball. Dickey is the best player to come to the Mets since Piazza. It would be a mistake to just throw that away for a hope and a prayer.

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12-15-2012, 04:14 PM
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
You're ignoring the very high possibility that the prospects bust. Then we lose Dickey and we continue to suck even in a few years.

People act like real life is like a video game where potential is a known quantity and projecting the future is simple. It's not, especially in baseball. Dickey is the best player to come to the Mets since Piazza. It would be a mistake to just throw that away for a hope and a prayer.
and dickeys 38 years old and had 1 great season in his career.

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12-15-2012, 04:18 PM
  #718
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You're ignoring the very high possibility that the prospects bust. Then we lose Dickey and we continue to suck even in a few years.

People act like real life is like a video game where potential is a known quantity and projecting the future is simple. It's not, especially in baseball. Dickey is the best player to come to the Mets since Piazza. It would be a mistake to just throw that away for a hope and a prayer.
Even if Dickey repeats his performance last year, which is doubtful, what happens? The Mets still suck, and don't sniff the playoffs. Doesn't seem to be much upside in keeping him. Yes, prospects have a high probability of busting. What's your alternative? What big time UFAs are going to the Mets? There's a reason D'arnaud is ranked so high.

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12-15-2012, 04:56 PM
  #719
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Beltran is a hall of famer and was having a great year when he was traded. Value wise they're similar, but situation wise they're not. Dickey has an incredibly cheap year on his contract and his rumored contract demands are very fair. I'd only be willing to trade him for an elite prospect, and if we can get D'arnaud it has to be done. A core of Wheeler, Ike, Niese, Harvey, David, and D'arnaud would be great. If things work out well you have 3 front of the rotation starters, an impact bat with good D at a position where that's really rare, a superstar at 3rd and a guy who has 5 WAR potential at 1st. We need to work on the outfield, though. Syndergaard is also a good prospect- if we can get him then Sandy is the man.

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12-15-2012, 05:03 PM
  #720
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and dickeys 38 years old and had 1 great season in his career.
You don't know Dick-ey

He's had 3 great seasons, the past three.

IP SO BB WHIP ERA
174.1 104 42 1.19 2.84
208.2 134 54 1.23 3.28
233.2 230 54 1.05 2.73


And he's only like 27 in knuckleball years.

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12-15-2012, 05:07 PM
  #721
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Even if Dickey repeats his performance last year, which is doubtful, what happens? The Mets still suck, and don't sniff the playoffs. Doesn't seem to be much upside in keeping him. Yes, prospects have a high probability of busting. What's your alternative? What big time UFAs are going to the Mets? There's a reason D'arnaud is ranked so high.
We have something great to watch. Without him we'll still suck and have no reason to watch. We're not one big prospect away from anything. There's zero elite talent on this team outside of Dickey. Don't trade away the one thing you have going for you.

We went 74-88 last year. RA went 20-6. Without Dickey we probably lose 100 games.

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12-15-2012, 05:15 PM
  #722
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We have something great to watch. Without him we'll still suck and have no reason to watch. We're not one big prospect away from anything. There's zero elite talent on this team outside of Dickey. Don't trade away the one thing you have going for you.

We went 74-88 last year. RA went 20-6. Without Dickey we probably lose 100 games.
And what difference does it make if you lost 88 or 100 games? You have a big chance to improve your future and you don't want to do it. You're actually advocating mediocrity.

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12-15-2012, 05:39 PM
  #723
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And what difference does it make if you lost 88 or 100 games? You have a big chance to improve your future and you don't want to do it. You're actually advocating mediocrity.
No, I just reject the bogus notion that getting prospects automatically ensures a better future.

And we're back to this mediocrity bs. Remember when the Rangers had to sell and tank to get out of their own mediocrity into the status of the elite? Oh wait, that was just your crowd being wrong about how these things work.

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12-15-2012, 06:08 PM
  #724
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No, I just reject the bogus notion that getting prospects automatically ensures a better future.

And we're back to this mediocrity bs. Remember when the Rangers had to sell and tank to get out of their own mediocrity into the status of the elite? Oh wait, that was just your crowd being wrong about how these things work.
Christ. No one said the future will automatically be better, but it's guaranteed to be bleak if you fail to turn older assets like Dickey into good players. Hockey is a completely different animal, because the draft isn't a crapshoot like MLB. Rangers should've held onto Scott Gomez instead of trading him off for younger assets, right? It's not like you're trading Dickey for draft picks. d'Arnaud was drafted 5 years ago and still gets glowing reviews. How on Earth do you suggest getting better? No one wants to go to the Mets. I'm not arguing this further, you're just too off base.

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12-15-2012, 06:08 PM
  #725
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
No, I just reject the bogus notion that getting prospects automatically ensures a better future.

And we're back to this mediocrity bs. Remember when the Rangers had to sell and tank to get out of their own mediocrity into the status of the elite? Oh wait, that was just your crowd being wrong about how these things work.
So how would you improve this team? It seems like trading a 38 year old pitcher at the peak of his value for a top 20 prospect in the game who is also the top catching prospect in the game plus a top 100 prospect pitcher is a pretty good deal especially when you're trading from a position of strength don't you think?

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