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Star Trek Into Darkness

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12-06-2012, 05:40 PM
  #76
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Kirk is supposed to be a bit of a renegade, traditionally those people are not leadership material. I reckon they had a hard time finding a believable way for Kirk to rise to the captaincy in an hour yet still have him represent what fans have come to expect out of Kirk, let alone a young and inexperienced Kirk.

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12-06-2012, 05:45 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Kirk is supposed to be a bit of a renegade, traditionally those people are not leadership material. I reckon they had a hard time finding a believable way for Kirk to rise to the captaincy in an hour yet still have him represent what fans have come to expect out of Kirk, let alone a young and inexperienced Kirk.
I think it's more of the time frame it happened in. I think you show him at the academy doing his thing. Fast forward to some LT position on the Enterprise years later.

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12-06-2012, 05:54 PM
  #78
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I think it's more of the time frame it happened in. I think you show him at the academy doing his thing. Fast forward to some LT position on the Enterprise years later.
How about a montage? They could show Kirk beating the Kobayashi Maru, followed by him doing some push ups and a quick shot of the captain telling Kirk how much he has matured as an officer during the past six months.

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12-06-2012, 05:55 PM
  #79
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They are valid points if you were a fan of the original. I wasn't crazy about he story at all. You're on probation form starfleet academy... no wait, you're captain of the Enterprise!. What?!

It was a fun movie but lacked in many areas.
Don't get me started on the character reactions. The crew is supposed to be 17(Chekov) to 24 years old with Scotty and Mccoy maybe being as old as 30. They're still recruits, they watch an entire planet being destroyed, can only save a few people, managing to lose Spock's mother, and noone is in freakout?

Oh and nice job with the plant destroyer. rip off Star Wars much?

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12-06-2012, 06:02 PM
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How about a montage? They could show Kirk beating the Kobayashi Maru, followed by him doing some push ups and a quick shot of the captain telling Kirk how much he has matured as an officer during the past six months.
See, we could write this ****!

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Don't get me started on the character reactions. The crew is supposed to be 17(Chekov) to 24 years old with Scotty and Mccoy maybe being as old as 30. They're still recruits, they watch an entire planet being destroyed, can only save a few people, managing to lose Spock's mother, and noone is in freakout?

Oh and nice job with the plant destroyer. rip off Star Wars much?
My favorite part. Nero waited ummm what.... 20 some years for Spock to show up at this point in space. What the hell was he doing all that time? Oh yeah, Sulu had a sword with him during his space jump. Seemed like standard issue.

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12-06-2012, 07:17 PM
  #81
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My favorite part. Nero waited ummm what.... 20 some years for Spock to show up at this point in space. What the hell was he doing all that time?
Deleted scene. Nero and his entire crew were captured by the Klingons after they came through the vortex. They were in a prison camp for 20 years.

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12-06-2012, 07:38 PM
  #82
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Deleted scene. Nero and his entire crew were captured by the Klingons after they came through the vortex. They were in a prison camp for 20 years.
And the Klingons didn't bother to think "Wow this technology is far beyond our current level, lets dissect the ship and progress our technological level by x amount of years!!"

Beyond that, how did they get their ship back in working order? If the ship had been sitting idle as a rust bucket (or whatever it was doing) for x amount of years, the wear and tear on it would be significant.

The amount of plot holes in this movie is one for the ages. I'm surprised Plinkett didn't tear this movie apart like he did with the SW prequels

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12-06-2012, 08:03 PM
  #83
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It's nearly mathematically impossible for an extra-terrestrial species to resemble humanity in the degree the Vulcans do. It would be much more realistic for Spock to be a sentient almond.
Wasn't it established somewhere that a lot of the races were planted at their planets by one single race, which used one template to create the races from?

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12-06-2012, 08:45 PM
  #84
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And the Klingons didn't bother to think "Wow this technology is far beyond our current level, lets dissect the ship and progress our technological level by x amount of years!!"

Beyond that, how did they get their ship back in working order? If the ship had been sitting idle as a rust bucket (or whatever it was doing) for x amount of years, the wear and tear on it would be significant.

The amount of plot holes in this movie is one for the ages. I'm surprised Plinkett didn't tear this movie apart like he did with the SW prequels
I didn't even know this. This is hilarious. How the hell did the Klingons capture him, he was able to destory pretty much all of star fleet 20 years later? That's one stealthy bird of prey.

Another thing that bothered me. Spock deems Kirk a threat to the ship or whatever. Instead of confining him to the brig per startfleet regs, let's launch you on to some unknown planet that you may or may not survive on. Oh ****, old Spock is here too and within walking distance. Imagine that! Oh ****, Scotty is here too and he can beam us...... across the galaxy...... what?!?!?

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12-06-2012, 09:18 PM
  #85
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the first movie was a logic nightmare. It didn't make any real sense. To Abrams' credit, he still made it entertaining. I wasn't happy with it, I don't consider it a real Trek movie for various reasons including those listed already by some other posters here, but it was still watchable. Abrams deserves a TON of credit for that.


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Wasn't it established somewhere that a lot of the races were planted at their planets by one single race, which used one template to create the races from?
During a TNG episode where evidence was spread across many planets in each race's vicinity allowing a "map" to be constructed only by all of the races working together - or working to screw each other over, as it played out on the show. It was a good episode.

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12-06-2012, 09:30 PM
  #86
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I forgot to add several other things:

- Why is the Enterprise being built on Earth? It defies all logic. The enterprise is Huge! An it's already been explained in various other Trek series that the vast majority of Star Fleets capital ships are not built for atmospheric flight, or capable of landing on a planets surface. It would be far easier (and much more logical to build a starship of Enterprises size in orbital dry dock)

- Why would Spock jettison Kirk on an unknown and barely hospitable planet when regs dictate that a case like kirks would require the brig?

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12-06-2012, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RobBrown4PM View Post
I forgot to add several other things:

- Why is the Enterprise being built on Earth? It defies all logic. The enterprise is Huge! An it's already been explained in various other Trek series that the vast majority of Star Fleets capital ships are not built for atmospheric flight, or capable of landing on a planets surface. It would be far easier (and much more logical to build a starship of Enterprises size in orbital dry dock)

- Why would Spock jettison Kirk on an unknown and barely hospitable planet when regs dictate that a case like kirks would require the brig?
Read my post two above yours. Launching Kirk on the planet is just the start of the madness.

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12-06-2012, 09:51 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by RobBrown4PM View Post
I forgot to add several other things:

- Why is the Enterprise being built on Earth? It defies all logic. The enterprise is Huge! An it's already been explained in various other Trek series that the vast majority of Star Fleets capital ships are not built for atmospheric flight, or capable of landing on a planets surface. It would be far easier (and much more logical to build a starship of Enterprises size in orbital dry dock)
Just like in Star Trek The Motion Picture...

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12-06-2012, 09:53 PM
  #89
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^ It was just so Kirk could ride his bike over and check it out.

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12-06-2012, 10:08 PM
  #90
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Terraforming...

Vengeance...

Someone who was thought lost returning to the scene?


Yeah, Wrath of Khan remake for sure based on this trailer.

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12-06-2012, 11:41 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Kirk is supposed to be a bit of a renegade, traditionally those people are not leadership material. I reckon they had a hard time finding a believable way for Kirk to rise to the captaincy in an hour yet still have him represent what fans have come to expect out of Kirk, let alone a young and inexperienced Kirk.
I dunno, it is hard for me to imagine a Star Trek captain as not being a renegade, at least not from any of the television series. Picard was a renegade, that was his backstory, much like Kirk, but maybe not as much. Janeway was also a bit of a renegade. They were all prone with have a moment or outburst in most episodes that voiced "to hell with rules and regulations" and to do something in the best interest of their crew or themselves.

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12-07-2012, 03:53 AM
  #92
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And the Klingons didn't bother to think "Wow this technology is far beyond our current level, lets dissect the ship and progress our technological level by x amount of years!!"
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Nero <- Read that

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Beyond that, how did they get their ship back in working order? If the ship had been sitting idle as a rust bucket (or whatever it was doing) for x amount of years, the wear and tear on it would be significant.
It actually didn't sit there very long.

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- The Romulans home system star goes Supernova with zero notice (really!?)
Romulan or Vulcan?

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- Spock, and subsequently the Vulcans, go out of their way to save Romulus, so in turn, Nero thanks them by destroying Vulcan and trying to kill Spock (lolwut?)
While I admit they didn't go out of their way to explain this very well, Spock let Romulus die.

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- On a military dpave vessel with hundreds, if not thousa ds of crewmembers ans officers, Theres apparently no officers more experienced, or higher in rank on the Enterprise than a fresh, right out of the academy Kirk.
Brand new ship, probably a lot of noncomms and they had a few other ships to supply officers too.

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- Apparently sending a newbie crew of strung together students from the academy was the only option the federation had, to combat Nero (Seriously!? By this time the federation is quite large, and so is its navy, where's the hundreds, if not thousands of other Federation ships??)
In this universe, it appears they have a small fleet, plus they are scattered everywhere. So it might take time to come back to Earth.

BTW; did you even watch the movie? Some of these questions were answered in the movie.

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Another thing that bothered me. Spock deems Kirk a threat to the ship or whatever. Instead of confining him to the brig per startfleet regs, let's launch you on to some unknown planet that you may or may not survive on. Oh ****, old Spock is here too and within walking distance. Imagine that! Oh ****, Scotty is here too and he can beam us...... across the galaxy...... what?!?!?
Because Kirk would probably find a way out of the brig? Spock had already had to deal with him not only getting on the Enterprise somehow but also beating his program. He knows Kirk is clever and he doesn't want a distraction. As well, old Spock probably knew the events of what happened and as such, set himself up in position. Scotty isn't a huge surprise. Remember Kirk and Scotty didn't even know each other or hell the crew. He could have been a random engineer. We're just used to seeing them all together.

The time frame though is a bit weird but that's what happens when you have 5 years of history in a 2 hour movie.

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They are valid points if you were a fan of the original. I wasn't crazy about he story at all. You're on probation form starfleet academy... no wait, you're captain of the Enterprise!. What?!
You're making this overly simplistic. Pike knew Kirk very well. Both Kirks. He challenged Kirk to be a better man. He promoted Kirk to second in command after he left for Nero's ship. So, it's not like he just automatically jumped to being captain.


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12-07-2012, 06:14 AM
  #93
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I just saw the trailer for the first time. I'm not surprised (it looks like) they decided to double down on stupid instead of making a good movie. Oh well.

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12-07-2012, 09:25 AM
  #94
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While I admit they didn't go out of their way to explain this very well, Spock let Romulus die.
It was a pretty bad back story. I guess you don't need a reason if you're crazy to go after someone.

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Brand new ship, probably a lot of noncomms and they had a few other ships to supply officers too.
Way too many kids out of the academy on the bridge. It's contrary to everything we have seen in Star Trek before. This is supposed to be the flagship.


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Because Kirk would probably find a way out of the brig? Spock had already had to deal with him not only getting on the Enterprise somehow but also beating his program. He knows Kirk is clever and he doesn't want a distraction. As well, old Spock probably knew the events of what happened and as such, set himself up in position. Scotty isn't a huge surprise. Remember Kirk and Scotty didn't even know each other or hell the crew. He could have been a random engineer. We're just used to seeing them all together.
Spock knows what happens. What?! Spock was left on the planet by Nero to watch Vulcan be destroyed. Kirk was launched there within walking distance and Spock just happens to be there.

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You're making this overly simplistic. Pike knew Kirk very well. Both Kirks. He challenged Kirk to be a better man. He promoted Kirk to second in command after he left for Nero's ship. So, it's not like he just automatically jumped to being captain.
No really, that is what happens over the course of the movie. None of it made a whole lot of sense. It goes back to Pike, Spock and a bunch of cadets with 0 experience on the flagship.

The choose to tell a story with action and CGI in the 1st one. You could have cut out half of the action and laid a better foundation for these characters.

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12-07-2012, 10:20 AM
  #95
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Why would Spock jettison Kirk on an unknown and barely hospitable planet when regs dictate that a case like kirks would require the brig?
To drive home the point that this isn't the same Spock we've all come to know and love.

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It was a pretty bad back story. I guess you don't need a reason if you're crazy to go after someone.
It wasn't too much of a stretch. Nero had two options - blame the star for going nova earlier than expected or blame Spock for being late. Spock was someone he could get revenge on, so that's what he chose and what he became obsessed with. When everything you know is destroyed, it's a lot easier to become consumed with rage that feeds the need for revenge than to be rational and accept what happened and try to move on.

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Way too many kids out of the academy on the bridge. It's contrary to everything we have seen in Star Trek before. This is supposed to be the flagship.
The ship was just recently completed and had not yet had her maiden voyage. The main fleet was already deployed in the Laurentian system. This is where the majority of the experienced officers were. When the distress call from Vulcan came in, they had to scramble the available resources, most of which were cadets.

I'll be the first to admit, the plot wasn't the strongest Trek plot we've ever seen. That being said, it gave a very strong sense of destiny - that no matter the circumstances, Kirk and this crew were meant to come together on the Enterprise. And while Nero's motives for revenge are far less logical than Khan's, both this movie and Wrath of Khan were driven by one mad man seeking revenge.

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12-07-2012, 10:37 AM
  #96
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Guys, it's a reboot. I realize it has to follow certain 'rules' in order to call itself a Star Trek movie, but JJ has some creative freedom because it is a new take on the franchise. If he wants a flagship full of cadets, fine. That it doesn't jive with prior movies/universe/whatever is irrelevant.

I wasn't a fan of Star Trek prior to the reboot. I'd watch the show now and then, but it just wasn't that appealing. Call it a bastardization or commercialization, whatever, but the new movies are expanding to a wider audience. The movie itself was pretty solid, and I imagine this will be similar.

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12-07-2012, 12:55 PM
  #97
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Guys, it's a reboot. I realize it has to follow certain 'rules' in order to call itself a Star Trek movie, but JJ has some creative freedom because it is a new take on the franchise. If he wants a flagship full of cadets, fine. That it doesn't jive with prior movies/universe/whatever is irrelevant.

I wasn't a fan of Star Trek prior to the reboot. I'd watch the show now and then, but it just wasn't that appealing. Call it a bastardization or commercialization, whatever, but the new movies are expanding to a wider audience. The movie itself was pretty solid, and I imagine this will be similar.

I understand it's a reboot but when you call it Star Trek you are going to receive criticism from what loyal fans have come to expect from the franchise. Way too many plot holes in the story alone.

We know this a completely different time line and events are going to play out differently. This is due to the appearance of Nero. I was a huge fan of the originals, the chemistry between the cast was something special. TNG, Deep Space Nice as well. This movie was very different in many regards.

That being said I see some positives here. We had the rushed story in the first movie to get all the key characters in place. I can ignore how they ended up there and enjoy the 2nd installment on its own. Very happy with the casting of Spock and McCoy. Chekov was rather annoying. Let's see how they do.

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12-07-2012, 02:18 PM
  #98
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I can't begin to answer all the points made in thread, so i'll just handle it like this. It's an alternate realilty, **** that happened before ain't gonna happen the same now.


However, Scotty beaming himself & Kirk God knows how many light years across the galazy was beyong dumb. Dumb & lazy story writing..

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12-07-2012, 02:51 PM
  #99
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I understand it's a reboot but when you call it Star Trek you are going to receive criticism from what loyal fans have come to expect from the franchise. Way too many plot holes in the story alone.

We know this a completely different time line and events are going to play out differently. This is due to the appearance of Nero. I was a huge fan of the originals, the chemistry between the cast was something special. TNG, Deep Space Nice as well. This movie was very different in many regards.

That being said I see some positives here. We had the rushed story in the first movie to get all the key characters in place. I can ignore how they ended up there and enjoy the 2nd installment on its own. Very happy with the casting of Spock and McCoy. Chekov was rather annoying. Let's see how they do.
I disagree about it catching flak just because it carried the name Trek and didn't live up to "Trek expectations." I think it catches flak for being poorly written, and you could put any title on it, and it would still be poorly written. But Kurtz and Orci write lousy movies, and expectations should probably be tempered because of it. Any Trek fan should probably just be happy we didn't get something epically bad along the lines of the Transformers movies.

I know it wasn't meant to be, but the writing made the first Trek movie feel more like a spoof than a genuine reboot. And if I'm watching a spoof, I think Galaxy Quest did a far better, and less insulting, job of it.

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12-07-2012, 03:25 PM
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I disagree about it catching flak just because it carried the name Trek and didn't live up to "Trek expectations." I think it catches flak for being poorly written, and you could put any title on it, and it would still be poorly written. But Kurtz and Orci write lousy movies, and expectations should probably be tempered because of it. Any Trek fan should probably just be happy we didn't get something epically bad along the lines of the Transformers movies.

I know it wasn't meant to be, but the writing made the first Trek movie feel more like a spoof than a genuine reboot. And if I'm watching a spoof, I think Galaxy Quest did a far better, and less insulting, job of it.
I agree with you but that's the majority of movies these days. The name brought the audience. Still, you have some decent characters. Can they rectify it for the next movie? I have low expectations based on Hollywood's current trend with action flicks and reboots.

The trailer for 2009 actually made the hair on the back of my neck stand up..



Then I saw the movie. I'll admit I own it on Bluray. Even bad Star Trek is something to me. You could of had a great movie with some better writing. That's what pisses me off.

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