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Star Trek Into Darkness

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Old
12-07-2012, 03:30 PM
  #101
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The writers behind the Transformers movies wrote the 2009 reboot and the upcoming sequel. Don't look for impeccable characterizations and strong thematic elements in this series.


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12-07-2012, 03:46 PM
  #102
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It was a pretty bad back story. I guess you don't need a reason if you're crazy to go after someone.
Here's the backstory in a nutshell:

A star went supernova in the backyard of Romulus. Spock, who was on Romulus trying to reunify the Romulans and Vulcans realized this. He went to the Federation for help, promising Nero he would get some help. Federation bickered about it and poof! Went Romulus. Nero blamed Spock because Spock promised that the Federation would assist but didn't. Furthermore Nero's wife and first born were killed and the senate fled the planet. So Nero was pretty ticked off about it. Pretty much the same back story of a lot of movies.

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Way too many kids out of the academy on the bridge. It's contrary to everything we have seen in Star Trek before. This is supposed to be the flagship.
Maybe Chekov and Sulu (though it's unclear). Spock isn't a 'kid' or at least he is a teacher in some capacity. I think it's established that Uhura and Kirk are the only kids out of the academy and we can make some assumptions over Sulu and Chekov (There was also an exchange on why Sulu was on the bridge and not the officer)

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Spock knows what happens. What?! Spock was left on the planet by Nero to watch Vulcan be destroyed. Kirk was launched there within walking distance and Spock just happens to be there.
There is some back story on this, I need to find it but it makes sense.

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No really, that is what happens over the course of the movie. None of it made a whole lot of sense. It goes back to Pike, Spock and a bunch of cadets with 0 experience on the flagship.
Did you even watch the movie? Because this is explained fairly early and isn't one of the biggest issues of the story.

Pike issued a challenge to Kirk after the bar fight to do better than his old man. Pike was also there when Kirk was brought up on disciplinary charges. He was also on the bridge of the Enterprise when Kirk got on board. Pike knew a lot about Kirk and he was making a direct challenge to be better than his father, which is why he left him as second in command. He knew Kirk was resourceful and didn't back down from a challenge. He was also a bit headstrong and a bit wild but Pike knew exactly what he was going when he promoted Kirk.

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12-07-2012, 04:06 PM
  #103
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Guys, it's a reboot. I realize it has to follow certain 'rules' in order to call itself a Star Trek movie, but JJ has some creative freedom because it is a new take on the franchise. If he wants a flagship full of cadets, fine. That it doesn't jive with prior movies/universe/whatever is irrelevant.

I wasn't a fan of Star Trek prior to the reboot. I'd watch the show now and then, but it just wasn't that appealing. Call it a bastardization or commercialization, whatever, but the new movies are expanding to a wider audience. The movie itself was pretty solid, and I imagine this will be similar.
I understand it's a reboot, and the franchise getting a reboot is not what I have a problem with. The problem I have with the movie is that logic and good (Even decent!) story telling is quite literally thrown out the window to make room for 10,000 Michael BaySplosion scenes.

As much as I hate to admit this, I honestly think TPM did a better job at sewing together a plot and story than this movie did.

Now I'm off to drink a bottle of lycol to cleanse myself of what I just said.

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12-07-2012, 04:08 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post

Pike issued a challenge to Kirk after the bar fight to do better than his old man. Pike was also there when Kirk was brought up on disciplinary charges. He was also on the bridge of the Enterprise when Kirk got on board. Pike knew a lot about Kirk and he was making a direct challenge to be better than his father, which is why he left him as second in command. He knew Kirk was resourceful and didn't back down from a challenge. He was also a bit headstrong and a bit wild but Pike knew exactly what he was going when he promoted Kirk.
Still doesn't follow suit in anything we have come to expect for the franchise. You can have an explanation for anything. The writing was still piss poor.

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12-07-2012, 04:18 PM
  #105
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My guess based on that trailer will be that this movie will get avg to below avg reviews while Benedict Sherlock whatever playing the villain will get glowing praise for his acting and the movie will make a bunch of $ plus lots of xplosions..

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12-07-2012, 04:34 PM
  #106
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Still doesn't follow suit in anything we have come to expect for the franchise. You can have an explanation for anything. The writing was still piss poor.
That part wasn't. But the franchise has never really had strong movies. First Contact remade the entire Borg. Most of the TOS was hit or miss. Most of the TNG were terrible. I mean really? Shinzon? Baku?

The thing is, the entire franchise got rebooted. Different time stream.

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12-07-2012, 04:40 PM
  #107
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That part wasn't. But the franchise has never really had strong movies. First Contact remade the entire Borg. Most of the TOS was hit or miss. Most of the TNG were terrible. I mean really? Shinzon? Baku?

The thing is, the entire franchise got rebooted. Different time stream.
TOS was hugely hit or miss, but the best of TOS was tremendously good. Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, and The Undiscovered Country all had pretty terrific writing (although they were different kinds of movies from one another).

The other two TOS movies were much weaker.

The biggest problem I had with the remake - and I did enjoy it - was that it didn't really feel like Star Trek. I was willing to give that a pass, given what they needed to do in that movie, but I'd very much like to get back to having the movies feel like Trek movies and not cliche adventure movies. Even the Wrath of Khan, which was the closest Star Trek TOS got to a cliche adventure movie, didn't really feel like one.

The TNG movies that were not particularly good all fell into this trap as well.

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12-07-2012, 05:34 PM
  #108
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I think Red Letter Media's review of the movie captures the perfect spectrum of what makes a good Star Trek movie and he basically said you either make it really sci-fi and techy(little to no action) or you make it actiony, but go all the way with it.

Basically, as long as they aren't the Next Gen movies, you're probably golden.

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12-07-2012, 07:23 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
I agree with you but that's the majority of movies these days. The name brought the audience. Still, you have some decent characters. Can they rectify it for the next movie? I have low expectations based on Hollywood's current trend with action flicks and reboots.

The trailer for 2009 actually made the hair on the back of my neck stand up..



Then I saw the movie. I'll admit I own it on Bluray. Even bad Star Trek is something to me. You could of had a great movie with some better writing. That's what pisses me off.
I wasn't a fan of the recent Batman series, but it was well written. The first Iron Man was good. The Avengers was good...they could do it really well if they get the right people involved.

I agree, though, the poor writing is what pissed me off, too. But I expected it with who they gave it to. I hoped they would pull it off, but deep down I knew they wouldn't. To add salt to the wound, the first movie still could have been really good with a lot of the pieces they had in place. They just blew it.

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12-07-2012, 07:40 PM
  #110
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The biggest problem I had with the remake - and I did enjoy it - was that it didn't really feel like Star Trek. I was willing to give that a pass, given what they needed to do in that movie, but I'd very much like to get back to having the movies feel like Trek movies and not cliche adventure movies.
This one feels even less than a Trek movie than the last one. Like you, I understood the purpose of the first movie. But man, this looks BAD.

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12-07-2012, 08:27 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
I think Red Letter Media's review of the movie captures the perfect spectrum of what makes a good Star Trek movie and he basically said you either make it really sci-fi and techy(little to no action) or you make it actiony, but go all the way with it.

Basically, as long as they aren't the Next Gen movies, you're probably golden.
The reboot was awesome. It got a 95% on RT with 300 reviews and an 8.0 on imdb, good for a spot in the top 250. And everyone I've talked to (as in not a forum of hyper-critical fanboys) loved it, including my current squeeze, who had never seen a Star Trek movie. Lament the galaxy sized holes in the writing all you want, it was still solid sci-fi. I don't know how some of you guys come to the conclusion that In Darkness will be bad based off of 1 minute of footage. It has potential, to me.

This was the trailer that sold me:

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12-07-2012, 08:52 PM
  #112
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Oh, it's not like I'm not going to see the 2nd movie. I just don't have high expectations. It is what it is. I loved the TNG and they had some bad movies as well.

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12-07-2012, 09:46 PM
  #113
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There are a few ways to take this reboot and the way I choose it that it's not real Star Trek but interpretive Star Trek. Real Trek deals with socio and political issues and throws in some science. We learn something about ourselves and how to better our species and our planet.

That being said, this reboot is just a fun action movie and the trailer looks fun which is all I expect. Plot holes and all, it's just fun.

It's not Khan either and that scene in the Japanese trailer mimicking the Kirk/Spock glass moment from Star Trek II is just to get us to talk and spread the word. Abrams has done this before. He purposely put the silhouette of Kirk and the Orion chick sleeping together right after a pic of Uhura (not a fan of the new version of her personally) in the first movie's trailer just to get people to think Kirk and Uhura were a pair.

It's gonna be Gary Mitchell. Why waste Khan now when he's a guaranteed home run? They'll save Khan for part III and get Javier Barden or someone of that level to play him.

If they wanted to do real Trek, they'd tell Frakes to go on a diet get Sirtis, Russ, and whoever else was on the Titan to do a show about that ship. But that'd never fly it's too slow paced for today'$ audience.

And yes, The Next Gen movies were all pretty bad. First Contact was good but had to use a gimmick (time travel) which was a major cop out.

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12-07-2012, 09:57 PM
  #114
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This one feels even less than a Trek movie than the last one. Like you, I understood the purpose of the first movie. But man, this looks BAD.
You can tell that by a minute long series of snippets? Give me a break.

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12-07-2012, 10:36 PM
  #115
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There are a few ways to take this reboot and the way I choose it that it's not real Star Trek but interpretive Star Trek. Real Trek deals with socio and political issues and throws in some science. We learn something about ourselves and how to better our species and our planet.

That being said, this reboot is just a fun action movie and the trailer looks fun which is all I expect. Plot holes and all, it's just fun.

It's not Khan either and that scene in the Japanese trailer mimicking the Kirk/Spock glass moment from Star Trek II is just to get us to talk and spread the word. Abrams has done this before. He purposely put the silhouette of Kirk and the Orion chick sleeping together right after a pic of Uhura (not a fan of the new version of her personally) in the first movie's trailer just to get people to think Kirk and Uhura were a pair.

It's gonna be Gary Mitchell. Why waste Khan now when he's a guaranteed home run? They'll save Khan for part III and get Javier Barden or someone of that level to play him.

If they wanted to do real Trek, they'd tell Frakes to go on a diet get Sirtis, Russ, and whoever else was on the Titan to do a show about that ship. But that'd never fly it's too slow paced for today'$ audience.

And yes, The Next Gen movies were all pretty bad. First Contact was good but had to use a gimmick (time travel) which was a major cop out.
Excellent all around post. I agree with everything. The bold had me laughing.

Not to be overly negative about the In to Darkness but can we get a story different than one lone guy out to destroy everything! Didn't they just do that! At least that's what I'm picking up from the trailers. Also looks like it's centered around Earth. Go in to space, find **** and meet some new damn civilizations!


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12-07-2012, 10:39 PM
  #116
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I understand it's a reboot but when you call it Star Trek you are going to receive criticism from what loyal fans have come to expect from the franchise. Way too many plot holes in the story alone.

We know this a completely different time line and events are going to play out differently. This is due to the appearance of Nero. I was a huge fan of the originals, the chemistry between the cast was something special. TNG, Deep Space Nice as well. This movie was very different in many regards.

That being said I see some positives here. We had the rushed story in the first movie to get all the key characters in place. I can ignore how they ended up there and enjoy the 2nd installment on its own. Very happy with the casting of Spock and McCoy. Chekov was rather annoying. Let's see how they do.
I think Chekov is supposed to be a little annoying. Even in the origional series, he was written as a very young character and a bit cocky.

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12-07-2012, 11:23 PM
  #117
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Chekov was originally supposed to be a British character but they had to change him to Russian because in a future with peace, where were the cosmonauts? They definitely made him goofy to kind of take jabs at the Russians and undo his cockiness. This even happened in the movies (I-gets shocked by V'Ger II-Eels III-That Ridiculous Suit He Wore IV-Nuclear Wessels and the whole scene on the carrier V-Looked incompetent sitting in the Captain's Chair VI-Looked like a fool in the gravity boots investigation) He also had the whole teenage heartthrob thing with The Monkees haircut. The new version isn't too annoying, just very young and green.

As for the new movie, the bad guy is wearing a cadet suit and has some war planet he lives on. Some accident or something happened where this guy (Gary Mitchell) got lost in space, got superpowers, and is pissed off at Earth/Humans. Maybe Kirk and the Enterprise did it to him. Maybe it was Starfleet. This 9 minute preview will probably show it.

It can't be Khan because Khan hasn't been woken up in this timeline yet and even if the Klingons/Romulans did it, he wouldn't have a reason for revenge because he was never marooned. He wasn't angry is Space Seed at all, more of a swashbuckler.

For Star Trek: Titan, I'd love to see it. The theme of the book series was after years of war, the Federation wanted to get back to pure exploration and Riker was just the man. I believe Tuvok was the first officer. It'd be fun to revisit that universe and take whatever DS9 and Voyager characters wanted in but it's probably too late to do it.

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12-07-2012, 11:39 PM
  #118
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Chekov was originally supposed to be a British character but they had to change him to Russian because in a future with peace, where were the cosmonauts? They definitely made him goofy to kind of take jabs at the Russians and undo his cockiness. This even happened in the movies (I-gets shocked by V'Ger II-Eels III-That Ridiculous Suit He Wore IV-Nuclear Wessels and the whole scene on the carrier V-Looked incompetent sitting in the Captain's Chair VI-Looked like a fool in the gravity boots investigation) He also had the whole teenage heartthrob thing with The Monkees haircut. The new version isn't too annoying, just very young and green.

As for the new movie, the bad guy is wearing a cadet suit and has some war planet he lives on. Some accident or something happened where this guy (Gary Mitchell) got lost in space, got superpowers, and is pissed off at Earth/Humans. Maybe Kirk and the Enterprise did it to him. Maybe it was Starfleet. This 9 minute preview will probably show it.

It can't be Khan because Khan hasn't been woken up in this timeline yet and even if the Klingons/Romulans did it, he wouldn't have a reason for revenge because he was never marooned. He wasn't angry is Space Seed at all, more of a swashbuckler.

For Star Trek: Titan, I'd love to see it. The theme of the book series was after years of war, the Federation wanted to get back to pure exploration and Riker was just the man. I believe Tuvok was the first officer. It'd be fun to revisit that universe and take whatever DS9 and Voyager characters wanted in but it's probably too late to do it.
Seriously?!?!

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12-08-2012, 12:42 AM
  #119
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I may not appeal to diehard trekkies, but the new reboot scored big with the younger/newer audiences, and will bring a new audience to the series and keep it going in the future. Though the same could have been said about the Star Wars films too =/

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12-08-2012, 01:00 AM
  #120
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I'm surprised they let 4 years pass between films. Not saying it's exceptionally long, but I figured with the critical and financial success, they would've gotten the next film out earlier, especially since the last one was a reboot/origin film.

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12-08-2012, 01:04 AM
  #121
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I'm surprised they let 4 years pass between films. Not saying it's exceptionally long, but I figured with the critical and financial success, they would've gotten the next film out earlier, especially since the last one was a reboot/origin film.
I think they wanted too but Paramount didn't want to have two of their big movies coming out this year. Egg is on them though because none of their big movies came out. Idiots.

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12-08-2012, 01:52 AM
  #122
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I was not a big fan of the last movie, but I still liked it better than the one with Shinzon, and I wasn't expecting much from it, so I wasn't too disappointed by it.

I don't expect much from this movie - it's in an alternate universe I don't really have a big interest in. I'll for sure see it when it comes to cable; but I don't go to the movies like I used to (only movie I saw this year so far was The Avengers, but hey it's only December!)...

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12-08-2012, 03:05 AM
  #123
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TOS was hugely hit or miss, but the best of TOS was tremendously good. Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, and The Undiscovered Country all had pretty terrific writing (although they were different kinds of movies from one another).
Yes. Even the first one was a bit rough though. It took a while to get the ball rolling.

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The other two TOS movies were much weaker.
Odd numbers. Um...I think it's the other 3. The Motion Picture, the Search for Spock and the Final Frontier were panned. Generations, Insurrections and Nemesis were terrible.

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If they wanted to do real Trek, they'd tell Frakes to go on a diet get Sirtis, Russ, and whoever else was on the Titan to do a show about that ship. But that'd never fly it's too slow paced for today'$ audience.
God no. Troi was such a horrendous character. Don't want her back on film in any capacity. As well, I don't think Titan would translate too well to film.

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12-08-2012, 10:05 AM
  #124
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The Motion Picture had some great ideas (even if it was in some ways a rip off of the Nomad TOS episode) but the pacing was waaaay too slow and the art direction (pajama uniforms....uggh) wasn't right.

Nemesis was a bastardization of Star Trek. Awful movie. The only good thing it did was give Tom Hardy some experience for his later roles as Bronson, Bane, etc.....kinda like a promising minor leaguer getting called up to play at the end of a season on a team that just had a firesale.

Titan might not work as a movie, but as a TV miniseries or Web Series or even a cartoon (Ghostbuster: The Video Game style). It would be cool to continue with that universe especially after Nemesis had such horrible resolutions to everything. Troi would be only one piece to the puzzle.

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12-08-2012, 10:30 AM
  #125
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Why was nemesis an awful movie?

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