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If the penguins are bounced in the first round again:

View Poll Results: If the pens are bounced in the first round again do you think Bylsma will be fired?!
Yes 52 60.47%
No 24 27.91%
He will get ONE more year... 10 11.63%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:12 PM
  #51
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Yeah... but the Blues don't have the best 2 players in the world, or any players even in the top 25. They're a well coached team that actually plays above their potential/talent level. The opposite of the Pens imo.
I was just answering his question. I'm pretty sure we are in agreement on this subject.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:48 PM
  #52
wgknestrick
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
The Blues are pretty close. They have just as many playoff series wins in the last three years and McDonald has missed 84 games in the same time.
Backes would always be the #1 out of those 2. I also seem to remember STL missing the playoffs 2 years ago......Making them an example for my side of the discussion.

Blues are also much more talented now than you give them credit for. They've had one of the best prospect pools for a while that are just starting to get their NHL opportunities. Average talent on STL = (or very close =) average PIT talent. It's just that PIT has more talent on the extremes (good and bad).

I am just saying that Byslma's head on a pike does nothing to improve the Pens. It is the wrong head. Are there better coaches? Sure, but they all have jobs. Pens would be much more likely to replace him with a lessor coach than a better one.

What teams have had better team Corsi than the Pens for the last 3 years? Answer 1 CHI. Bylsma has coached the Pens to the #2 corsi spot over the last 3 years. They were 21st in the NHL when Therrien coached in 08/09.

Can you put your team in a better position to succeed other than making sure they consistently out shoot the other team? Mark my words too that STL is destined to fall back to earth because they did not consistently outshoot their opposition last year. Luck got them pretty far with insanely high SV% from both goaltenders that will fall back down.

If MAF had elevated and played just "average" over those series or if the Pens were greatly out shot, then I'd say you have a valid argument. Bylsma put them in a high win % situation with his possession based game and tried to limit the exposure of our below average goaltender to shots.

We will hopefully see what damage this powerhouse of a team can do with above average goaltending this year (assuming they let Vokoun play).

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:57 PM
  #53
Ogrezilla
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I apparently put considerably less stock in team corsi than you do. I don't know how anyone can watch the Pens and the blues and conclude that we play even close to their level of team defense. The big problem with Bylsma is that three years in a row he has gone into the playoffs and made absolutely no adjustments to counter the team we were up against. He just kept doing the same thing we did all year. Meanwhile they gameplanned against us. They matched lines. They built their special teams to counter ours. And they beat us. I don't care if Bylsma coaches us to an 82-0 regular season. If he can't win in the playoffs I want a coach who can. That's not to say all of the blame is on him. But if he keeps making the same mistakes every year then that is a problem and should be dealt with.

ps: I never said a bad thing about the blues or their talent.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 09-14-2012 at 01:06 PM.
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Old
09-14-2012, 01:53 PM
  #54
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You are over-rating this corsi thing IMO. I look at it like this: If I told you a team won their division and then asked you if they consistently outshot their opponent, you would likely say yes. However if they question was reversed, I think it would be a more difficult answer.

Point being, outshooting your opponent doesn't cause a team to win. These things are correlated, but there are always outliers. The Penguins may be one of those outliers. We have plenty of offensive guys that fire the puck from all angles (see Kennedy, Tyler and Duper, Super). Outshooting our opponents doesn't do any good when we are firing 20 shots from the boards and giving up 5 quality odd man rushes.

Show me a stat that compares quality shots for and against and then let's talk.

By the way, what about the New York Rangers. Their corsi was terrible. Do you expect them to "fall back to earth"?

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09-14-2012, 02:38 PM
  #55
Jill Sandwich
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If the team goes into a severe slump this season, Bylsma's toast. Even if we're still in the playoffs at the time, if we suddenly start playing sub .500 hockey for over a month, Shero has to be proactive.

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Old
09-14-2012, 05:23 PM
  #56
#66
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Another thing thats not being brought up is the losing of series that the Pens are up in. That TB series still has me peeing blood.

Also if you watch the first game at the CEC you see the same breakdowns and mistakes that you'll see against Philly in these past playoffs.

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09-14-2012, 05:28 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #66 View Post
Another thing thats not being brought up is the losing of series that the Pens are up in. That TB series still has me peeing blood.

Also if you watch the first game at the CEC you see the same breakdowns and mistakes that you'll see against Philly in these past playoffs.
the TB series was ridiculous but it upsets me a lot less than it would because even if the pens won, they werent going anywhere with those injuries. but from the perspective of evaluating the team and coaching staff, that series should piss people off.

the flyers series is the one the makes me legit angry. losing to maybe your biggest rival in extraordinarily embarrassing fashion when your team is finally healthy... pisses me off so much. at least the flyers were promptly eliminated.

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09-14-2012, 07:29 PM
  #58
wgknestrick
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
You are over-rating this corsi thing IMO. I look at it like this: If I told you a team won their division and then asked you if they consistently outshot their opponent, you would likely say yes. However if they question was reversed, I think it would be a more difficult answer.

Point being, outshooting your opponent doesn't cause a team to win. These things are correlated, but there are always outliers. The Penguins may be one of those outliers. We have plenty of offensive guys that fire the puck from all angles (see Kennedy, Tyler and Duper, Super). Outshooting our opponents doesn't do any good when we are firing 20 shots from the boards and giving up 5 quality odd man rushes.

Show me a stat that compares quality shots for and against and then let's talk.

By the way, what about the New York Rangers. Their corsi was terrible. Do you expect them to "fall back to earth"?
"Terrible" is a mighty strong adjective to describe a team that is just about even and mid pack in something. With that being said, if they don't improve their Corsi next year, they are a team highly likely to regress to mid playoff pack. Henrik will not always win the Venzina to bail them out.

Out shooting always does good in the long run. Game to game, anything can happen as we all know. You guys are still putting too much stock into results over a small number of games. Only 1 team out of 30 wins every year. It is not surprising that a good team could lose 3 years in a row. It doesn't matter where they lose, it only matters if they win it all.

See SJ, Van, CHI, PHI, WSH, etc. Your expectations are unreasonable if you think the Pens will always win at least 1 series every year. Failing to qualify for the playoffs is another issue, but Bylsma has not had issues with that so far.

Please explain how Bylsma is responsible for MAF's "terrible" SV% in the playoffs over those 3 years? I have yet to read any data that points to him hanging MAF out to dry or Danny B missing wrist shots from the blue line. You guys think Bylsma is responsible for every little mistake the Pen's make, but don't realize he factors in very little to the outcome of a single game.

So are we still calling for the head of a coach whose team never produced under 100pts a season, has a 65% winning %, and a 56% winning % in the playoffs? Do you know how close those numbers are to Babcock's? Very.

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Old
09-15-2012, 10:16 AM
  #59
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post

Please explain how Bylsma is responsible for MAF's "terrible" SV% in the playoffs over those 3 years? I have yet to read any data that points to him hanging MAF out to dry or Danny B missing wrist shots from the blue line. You guys think Bylsma is responsible for every little mistake the Pen's make, but don't realize he factors in very little to the outcome of a single game.
Nobody is blaming him for every mistake. But when the team as a whole plays like crap, it falls on the coach. When the opponent has figured out how to beat your system, it falls on the coach to adjust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
So are we still calling for the head of a coach whose team never produced under 100pts a season, has a 65% winning %, and a 56% winning % in the playoffs? Do you know how close those numbers are to Babcock's? Very.
If he continues to show a complete inability to adjust what we do when it clearly isn't working, then yes I will be calling for his head.

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Old
09-15-2012, 10:28 AM
  #60
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Shero went to the trade route with Michalek. So, firing Bylsma is the next logical option.

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09-15-2012, 11:19 AM
  #61
#66
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Just to kick names around.... who else is out there?

Also what about the people around Disco? Maybe thats the change that needs to be made.

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09-15-2012, 11:33 AM
  #62
DegenX
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
Just to kick names around.... who else is out there?

Also what about the people around Disco? Maybe thats the change that needs to be made.
Dave King has one more year left on his contract with the 'Yotes as a development coach. But he's also in his early-mid sixties and may be looking to retire soon.

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09-15-2012, 01:00 PM
  #63
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Nobody is blaming him for every mistake. But when the team as a whole plays like crap, it falls on the coach. When the opponent has figured out how to beat your system, it falls on the coach to adjust.



If he continues to show a complete inability to adjust what we do when it clearly isn't working, then yes I will be calling for his head.
It falls on DB for not cementing in the minds of the players that defense first should always supersede in the playoffs. He didn't go that route though. Players with the knowledge like Crosby/Malkin/Staal should know by way of repetition of playing in many playoff series. Not many forwards took on the defensive role and it didn't help the coach wasn't preaching it firmly enough or at all. Offensive zone pressure or offense was the prime defensive strategy.

Problem is, the other team had just as good of a offensive threat but a weaker defensive core and the Pens had a better defensive core but worse back checkers and a over committed defense to offense.

These were all implemented by the coach. Had all four lines played solid dense they probably won the series with 3-2/4-2 wins with how bad their defense was with how good we know the Pens can transition from the past when effort is given.

You can't really blame DB for all those series though. I do blame him for the Tampa(up 3-1/Flyer(healthy squad + offensive strategy "in playoffs") ones though. Habs I don't blame on him.

Will we get to see one this year?

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Old
09-15-2012, 10:29 PM
  #64
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Dave King has one more year left on his contract with the 'Yotes as a development coach. But he's also in his early-mid sixties and may be looking to retire soon.
I was thinking about him but I would stick with the ex Yotes and go with Ulfie. He got high marks for his time in PHO and I think he gets the balanced attitude of when a coach needs to crack the whip.

Mike Eaves and Barry Smith's names always get tossed around but I guess they'll never see head coaching jobs in the NHL.

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