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Do some people blame Mats Sundin for Brendan Shanahan not making the Hall of Fame?

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Old
09-13-2012, 08:05 PM
  #126
Clamshells
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blame mats for not eating his chunky soup

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Old
09-13-2012, 08:21 PM
  #127
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I liked Sundin as a player but it's ridicolous to know that he got in the Hall before Brendan Shanahan.

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Old
09-13-2012, 08:22 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
oh sorry, I forgot the sarcasm Icon.

I agree with what you are saying.
Yes you did! Sorry for the snarky response then!

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Old
09-13-2012, 09:30 PM
  #129
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Yes you did! Sorry for the snarky response then!
No problem

I was just dumbing it down for everyone else....yeah that was my intention!

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Old
09-13-2012, 10:15 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
I liked Sundin as a player but it's ridicolous to know that he got in the Hall before Brendan Shanahan.
uh how is it ridiculous? Honestly Sundin was probably a better player when it comes down to it. This guy put up some solid stats for having no one to play with for a fairly considerable amount of his career

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Yes you did! Sorry for the snarky response then!
yeah maybe you shouldnt be snarky with people because they dont agree with you.

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Old
09-14-2012, 10:02 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
I liked Sundin as a player but it's ridicolous to know that he got in the Hall before Brendan Shanahan.

You seem to be forgetting that Mats won the Mark Messier Leadership Award

Shanahan has not

that in itself

is reason alone

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:04 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Thank you for knowing the answer.

Besides the Conference Finals in 1999 & 2002 in 2000, 2001 and 2004 they got as far as the Eastern Conference Semi Finals or is that still not good enough? The only time with Sundin as captain when the Leafs didn't make it out of the 1st round was in 2003.

Yes your right Sundin was injured in 2002 against the Islanders in the 1st round, but the fact is a Sundin lead team made it to the Conference Finals without him. Plus if it wasn't for Mogilny giving the puck away in overtime of Game 6 vs Carolina maybe the Leafs comeback and win that series. You forget it was Sundin who tied the game in the 3rd with under 30 seconds left.

As for who lead the charge with Sundin injured I thought it was Roberts.
2002: the Leafs made the Conference Finals, going 10-10.
Sundin only played in 2 of the 8 wins that got the Leafs past the first two rounds and the team went 3-5 with him in the lineup that postseason.

2004: the Leafs went to the 2nd round.
Sundin only played in 2 of the 4 wins from the 1st round.

2009: the Canucks made the 2nd round.
Sundin only played in 2 of the 4 wins from the 1st round.

Sundin was a big part of his teams playoffs runs (leading the charge) before 2002. But afterwards, he only played in 6 of the 16 wins that helped his team win the 4 rounds that they did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by #66 View Post
Those games might have been the only time we haven't seen Sundin with has beens and never willer be's. I honestly don't get how TO can get a player like that and put players like Berezin and Modin around him.
These players finished Top-60 in goals during Sundin's 13 season tenure in Toronto

NHL Overall goalscoring rank/ player / year / Team
14 Berezin 99 Toronto
20 Mogilny 03 Toronto
22 Andreychuk 95 Toronto
22 Hoglund 00 Toronto
25 Roberts 04 Toronto
29 Gartner 96 Toronto
30 W. Clark 97 Toronto
33 Thomas 99 Toronto
34 Gilmour 96 Toronto
37 Thomas 00 Toronto
43 Berezin 00 Toronto
48 Roberts 01 Toronto
50 Andreychuk/Clark 96 Toronto
54 Antropov 08 Toronto
55 D. King 99 Toronto
55 Nieuwendyk 04 Toronto
56 Tucker 02 Toronto
57 Tucker 06 Toronto
58 Mogilny 02 Toronto
60 Berezin 97 Toronto

That's 20 times + Sundin another 13 times over 13 years = an average of 2.5 Leafs per season made this list. The average per team in the league would have only been 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
You seem to be forgetting that Mats won the Mark Messier Leadership Award

Shanahan has not

that in itself

is reason alone
The Messier and the Clancy are within 2 degrees of being the same award, except that one is awarded by the league (Clancy) and the other is awarded by a tire company (Messier).

NHL.com
Quote:
The King Clancy Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the player who best exemplifies leadership qualities on and off the ice and has made a noteworthy humanitarian contribution in his community.
wikipedia
Quote:
The Mark Messier Leadership Award is a National Hockey League (NHL) award that recognizes an individual as a superior leader within their sport, and as a contributing member of society. The award is given to a player selected by Mark Messier to honor an individual who leads by positive example through on-ice performance, motivation of team members and a dedication to community activities and charitable causes.
Sundin won the Messier award.
Shanahan won the Clancy award.

Both should be celebrated for their dedication on and off of the rink.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:09 AM
  #133
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Too many people here are forgetting about Sundin's international accomplishments. The hockey hall of fame considers not only NHL play but also international play. Sundin is one of the all time greats in international play. He was also the first European born play to go #1 overall and the greatest Swedish player of all time.

To compare Shanahan and Sundin on an international level:

Shanahan: 23 points in 41 international games.
Sundin: 83 points in 69 games.

Both players have gold medals. Sundin captained the 2006 team that won the gold and recorded 8 points in 8 games. Shanahan recorded 1 point in 6 games at the 2002 olympics.

Also, Shanahan's high profile position in the NHL is going to be a hinderance. To avoid the perception of favoritism they are going to have to make it look like he is going through a longer procedure.

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:50 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
2002: the Leafs made the Conference Finals, going 10-10.
Sundin only played in 2 of the 8 wins that got the Leafs past the first two rounds and the team went 3-5 with him in the lineup that postseason.

2004: the Leafs went to the 2nd round.
Sundin only played in 2 of the 4 wins from the 1st round.

2009: the Canucks made the 2nd round.
Sundin only played in 2 of the 4 wins from the 1st round.

Sundin was a big part of his teams playoffs runs (leading the charge) before 2002. But afterwards, he only played in 6 of the 16 wins that helped his team win the 4 rounds that they did.



These players finished Top-60 in goals during Sundin's 13 season tenure in Toronto

NHL Overall goalscoring rank/ player / year / Team
14 Berezin 99 Toronto
20 Mogilny 03 Toronto
22 Andreychuk 95 Toronto
22 Hoglund 00 Toronto
25 Roberts 04 Toronto
29 Gartner 96 Toronto
30 W. Clark 97 Toronto
33 Thomas 99 Toronto
34 Gilmour 96 Toronto
37 Thomas 00 Toronto
43 Berezin 00 Toronto
48 Roberts 01 Toronto
50 Andreychuk/Clark 96 Toronto
54 Antropov 08 Toronto
55 D. King 99 Toronto
55 Nieuwendyk 04 Toronto
56 Tucker 02 Toronto
57 Tucker 06 Toronto
58 Mogilny 02 Toronto
60 Berezin 97 Toronto

That's 20 times + Sundin another 13 times over 13 years = an average of 2.5 Leafs per season made this list. The average per team in the league would have only been 2.



The Messier and the Clancy are within 2 degrees of being the same award, except that one is awarded by the league (Clancy) and the other is awarded by a tire company (Messier).

NHL.com


wikipedia


Sundin won the Messier award.
Shanahan won the Clancy award.

Both should be celebrated for their dedication on and off of the rink.
This has to be one of the most nonsensical and irrational posts in this entire thread. The fact that you're suggesting 40-50 point players meant that Sundin had adequate offensive support is mind-boggling to say the least. The point about the Leafs having a worse record in the playoffs with Sundin for random seasons isn't even worth addressing - I suppose the fact that he was at a PPG scoring rate during those seasons meant that he was a liability to his team.

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Old
09-14-2012, 12:36 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
This has to be one of the most nonsensical and irrational posts in this entire thread. The fact that you're suggesting 40-50 point players meant that Sundin had adequate offensive support is mind-boggling to say the least. The point about the Leafs having a worse record in the playoffs with Sundin for random seasons isn't even worth addressing - I suppose the fact that he was at a PPG scoring rate during those seasons meant that he was a liability to his team.
Just so that we have this straight...

- Everything that I said was true.
- Very little of my post involved opinion whatsoever.
- And yet; "This has to be one of the most nonsensical and irrational posts in this entire thread."

Do I have this right?

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Old
09-14-2012, 02:19 PM
  #136
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no, why blame Matts??... I blame the media bias who panders to Toronto

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Old
09-14-2012, 03:50 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Polo View Post

Your proof is he has a few gold medals in all of the seasons/tournaments he ever played. That is not proof at all. Neither is "he has medals in over half of them". Okay that can be said for a lot of players.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...aining-content

Ryan Kesler:

And do you have any inkling on where Mats Sundin might end up going?

No idea. I haven't talked it him. We all want him back. Of course, I want him back -- he's my centerman. He definitely helped. He brought my game to the next level.

It's ok not to like the Leafs, I don't.
It's ok to think he should not have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer, there's certainly room for that.
But not taking the time to do a simple Google search to find teammates talking about him is pretty meh.

Sundin was a good hockey player and I look forward to having MY captain Daniel Alfredsson be inducted to the Hall when he retires.


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Old
09-14-2012, 07:04 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
no, why blame Matts??... I blame the media bias who panders to Toronto
Because Toronto lines their pockets.

THe media blasts the Leafs more than anyone.

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Old
09-14-2012, 07:22 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by SensFanDan View Post
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...aining-content

Ryan Kesler:

And do you have any inkling on where Mats Sundin might end up going?

No idea. I haven't talked it him. We all want him back. Of course, I want him back -- he's my centerman. He definitely helped. He brought my game to the next level.

It's ok not to like the Leafs, I don't.
It's ok to think he should not have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer, there's certainly room for that.
But not taking the time to do a simple Google search to find teammates talking about him is pretty meh.

Sundin was a good hockey player and I look forward to having MY captain Daniel Alfredsson be inducted to the Hall when he retires.

ok....I never said he was a bad player

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Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
This has to be one of the most nonsensical and irrational posts in this entire thread.
No.

It actually disproves what some others were claiming in the thread

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Old
09-14-2012, 10:37 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post








The Messier and the Clancy are within 2 degrees of being the same award, except that one is awarded by the league (Clancy) and the other is awarded by a tire company (Messier).

NHL.com


wikipedia


Sundin won the Messier award.
Shanahan won the Clancy award.

Both should be celebrated for their dedication on and off of the rink.
perhaps Trent you missed my haiku

but thank-you kindly for the update as a novice to the game of hockey I do appreciate all the info I can get

btw why do you use an ex players name?


Last edited by therealkoho: 09-15-2012 at 08:24 AM.
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Old
06-27-2013, 01:13 PM
  #141
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...Can someone explain to me why one of these two players has to be significantly better than the other?

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Old
06-27-2013, 01:19 PM
  #142
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Bure/Oates deserved it.

If Matts didn't play in Toronto and for a small market, not sure he makes HHOF at all, yet alone first ballot

Matts got in due to Toronto writers, not sure why Shanny has been shafted or if these 2 things are even related.

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Old
06-27-2013, 01:21 PM
  #143
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Dick Duff.

'nuffs enough.

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Old
06-27-2013, 01:51 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Are you suggesting something here? I highly doubt you're suggesting that in his 20 year career, winning a gold medal while playing alongside

Forsberg
D sedin
H sedin
N. Lidstrom
Zetterberg

Is because of Sundins leadership? That would be pretty silly.



Burke did not shut the door on Sundin (until towards the end when Sundin seemed like he wanted to play elsewhere). Burke openly stated to the media Sundin was welcome to stay when hired.
Watch the games, it often comes back to that but it is a valid thing to state in this case. I take that you do not follow Tre kronor in particular and you do probably not have any reason to do so either so no worries (as if!). Sundin was anyway a leader and particularly on the stacked Tre kronor, where he was the undisputed captain (coming from a fan of Forsberg and H. Sedin).


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Old
06-27-2013, 02:31 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Kloparren View Post
I blame the ridiculous exclusivity of the HOF and the 4 per yr rule. Dave Andrechyuk for example should be in the HOF and even he isn't.
I think only 3 should get in, make it a bit harder and make the title 'HOF'er' have a bit more prestige.

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Old
06-27-2013, 03:45 PM
  #146
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Sundin doesn't belong in the hall and has never won anything other then olympic gold once...shanny 3 cups case closed.

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Old
06-27-2013, 03:54 PM
  #147
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Shanahan isn't worthy of being a first-ballot HOF, that's why he didn't make it in

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Old
06-27-2013, 04:00 PM
  #148
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Im so mad at Sundin that I urinated on his display at the HHOF. True story.

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Old
06-27-2013, 04:26 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
...Can someone explain to me why one of these two players has to be significantly better than the other?
Because they're both non-Canadians better than Yzerman

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Old
06-27-2013, 05:45 PM
  #150
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I also blame him for both world wars

Why should he get blamed it's not like he got to vote and Shanahan did not.

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