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Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): The "Ruf"fled Offseason Thread

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10-29-2012, 10:26 AM
  #226
JDinkalage Morgoone
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I would like Bourn at the right price. Other than that, I'm not too familiar with the FAs

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10-29-2012, 11:19 AM
  #227
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Read in the paper today the phillies one of the teams looking at Melky Cabrera if he doesn't resign with S.F.. Thoughts ?

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10-29-2012, 01:08 PM
  #228
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Read in the paper today the phillies one of the teams looking at Melky Cabrera if he doesn't resign with S.F.. Thoughts ?
I said earlier I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen. Perhaps try and catch lightning in a bottle. He's going to be available at a deep discount. I want Upton but he's going to get a lot of money.

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10-29-2012, 02:16 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I would like Bourn at the right price. Other than that, I'm not too familiar with the FAs
He won't come at a friendly price. Boras is his agent, and he'll push him as the best basestealer in the game and probably the best lead-off hitter in the game...which are both incorrect.

Personally I think this team needs to step back a bit on expensive players and start developing from within. Obviously that screams "REBUILD", but they still have the talent and leadership to rebuild quickly.

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10-29-2012, 03:47 PM
  #230
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Outfield will probably look like this, to be honest:

RF - Brown
CF - Schierholtz, Mayberry
LF - Ruf

Not ideal, but if they want to hold onto draft picks and prospects...

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10-29-2012, 03:56 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
Outfield will probably look like this, to be honest:

RF - Brown
CF - Schierholtz, Mayberry
LF - Ruf

Not ideal, but if they want to hold onto draft picks and prospects...
We definitely need a better arm than Nate in center. Mayberry has a decent enough arm to play CF though.

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10-29-2012, 04:26 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
We definitely need a better arm than Nate in center. Mayberry has a decent enough arm to play CF though.
They'll likely platoon if a FA isn't picked up.

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10-29-2012, 04:50 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
Outfield will probably look like this, to be honest:

RF - Brown
CF - Schierholtz, Mayberry
LF - Ruf

Not ideal, but if they want to hold onto draft picks and prospects...
Not a chance in hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
We definitely need a better arm than Nate in center. Mayberry has a decent enough arm to play CF though.
Nate has a much better arm than Mayberry.

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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
They'll likely platoon if a FA isn't picked up.
Again, no chance in hell they platoon two non-CF's in CF.

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10-29-2012, 04:59 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Not a chance in hell.



Nate has a much better arm than Mayberry.



Again, no chance in hell they platoon two non-CF's in CF.
Really? Thought it was the other way around.

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10-29-2012, 05:03 PM
  #235
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Alright Ruben, I guess we'll see

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10-29-2012, 05:16 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Really? Thought it was the other way around.
Nah Nate has a pretty good arm. Mayberry's just average.

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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
Alright Ruben, I guess we'll see
Do you honestly think they will have 2 corner OF's platoon in CF again? If that happens, Ruben better get his walking papers.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
-Albert Einstein.

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10-29-2012, 05:40 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Nah Nate has a pretty good arm. Mayberry's just average.



Do you honestly think they will have 2 corner OF's platoon in CF again? If that happens, Ruben better get his walking papers.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
-Albert Einstein.
I'm saying it could be likely if they don't land a free agent. I dont want it, but looking at the options I just don't know what else they could do!

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10-29-2012, 05:51 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I'm saying it could be likely if they don't land a free agent. I dont want it, but looking at the options I just don't know what else they could do!
They have to. There's no choice here. Trade or a FA.

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10-31-2012, 10:54 PM
  #239
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Well 4 years ago today the Phillies had their World Series parade.

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10-31-2012, 11:16 PM
  #240
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Well 4 years ago today the Phillies had their World Series parade.
3 years ago today, i got the most drunk ive ever gotten in my life.

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11-01-2012, 09:19 AM
  #241
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I think they need to add another OF, preferably a CF. Then go from there. See how Ruf plays the OF in and then make a decision. I would not be surmised if either Nate or Nix or both arent on the team in 2013.

But to me their #1 priority is their pen. The good thing is that they have a bunch of really good young arms which could help with that problem.

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11-01-2012, 10:58 AM
  #242
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http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com...s_phi&c_id=phi

"The Phillies have Cliff Lee ($25 million), Roy Halladay ($20 million), Howard ($20 million), Hamels ($19.5 million), Utley ($15 million), Jonathan Papelbon ($13 million), Rollins ($11 million), Ruiz ($5 million club option), Kyle Kendrick ($4.5 million) and Laynce Nix ($1.35 million) under contract next season. That is $134.35 million committed to just 10 players. The Phillies don't appear to have a lot of wiggle room, so they have to be particularly wise with how they spend their money this offseason."

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...mmitments.html

"Here's the list, starting with the largest commitments:

•Dodgers, $193.8MM
•Phillies, $133.1MM
•Yankees, $119.1MM
•Cardinals, $92.8MM "

------------------------

The second source didn't include the Nix contract, which means that it is 133.1M for 9 players committed for next season. Now, assuming Kendrick is the #5 starter (which he deserves to be penciled in as, imo), that means that figure does not include a #4 starter, CF, RF, LF, 3B and no bullpen piece other than Papelbon.

So, just so everyone knows... if Ruben does opt to go after some of the names listed in this thread (Bourn, Upton) with yet another overpaid, poor value contract then that likely means repeating last season's most grievous error and going bottom of the barrel cheap in the pen with names like Bastardo, De Fratus, Aumont, etc. making up a much larger portion of the bullpen than they should.

My offseason vote: try to get Madsen back as the setup man on a one year deal (lets him re-establish his market value and lets us not be bogged down by another long deal) and bring in some cheap past their prime vets for the OF (Abreu, Damon, Jones, Posednik, Hunter, Ichiro) and 3B (Inge, Rolen) on 1 or 2 year deals (2nd year would hopefully be a mutual option in any instance, though).

It's time to finally suck it up and stop the financial bleeding.

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11-01-2012, 04:14 PM
  #243
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Congrats to J Roll on another Gold Glove. As much heat as he gets (deservedly, most of the time) he's been a great shortstop for a long time.

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11-01-2012, 04:43 PM
  #244
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Congrats to J Roll on another Gold Glove. As much heat as he gets (deservedly, most of the time) he's been a great shortstop for a long time.
If you believe in advanced metrics, JRoll was only above average defensively last year. As much **** as he gets (some times deserved), he's a valuable player because of his production as a SS. Something that is rare in today's game and why I supported his contract last year.

How Brendan Ryan didn't win the AL gold glove I'll never know. Oh wait, it's cuz he hit .194. Gold Gloves are a joke. Adam Jones stole another one. McCutchen over Bourn. It's nuts.

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11-01-2012, 04:48 PM
  #245
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If you believe in advanced metrics, JRoll was only above average defensively last year. As much **** as he gets (some times deserved), he's a valuable player because of his production as a SS. Something that is rare in today's game and why I supported his contract last year.

How Brendan Ryan didn't win the AL gold glove I'll never know. Oh wait, it's cuz he hit .194. Gold Gloves are a joke. Adam Jones stole another one. McCutchen over Bourn. It's nuts.
Oh I totally agree Rollins wasn't anything special this year. As you said Gold gloves are rarely given to the proper player. Jeter winning a gold glove is easily the best example. He'll make a nice play every once in awhile and the media drools over what a great defender he is. I guess they gotta give it to one of the good old boys. Even this year they got it wrong. Mike Trout not winning? Seriously? Just like the Selke in hockey the voters look at offense too much.

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11-01-2012, 04:55 PM
  #246
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Michael Bourn had a +22.5 UZR. More than double the next closest CF in baseball and the best in the entire league!!! McCutchen and Jones had negative UZRs. Trout was +13 but according to fangraphs he didn't have enough innings to qualify.

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11-01-2012, 10:58 PM
  #247
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I'd rather rely on the young arms and maybe sign Madson or Brett Myers to be the setup guy. Bullpen arms are pretty unpredictable as it is, look at the huge contracts given out to pen guys last year. Papelbon was the only guy worth his salt and nearly all the other ones were catastrophic messes. If your pen is gonna blow, at least it will be cheap, short deals.

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11-02-2012, 09:54 AM
  #248
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I'd rather rely on the young arms and maybe sign Madson or Brett Myers to be the setup guy. Bullpen arms are pretty unpredictable as it is, look at the huge contracts given out to pen guys last year. Papelbon was the only guy worth his salt and nearly all the other ones were catastrophic messes. If your pen is gonna blow, at least it will be cheap, short deals.
I agree with your assessment of bullpens in general, but I disagree that you can use it as an excuse to trot out under-prepared young arms in high pressure situations. At least one vet in a setup role and one vet in a middle relief role (coupled with Papelbon as closer, obviously) along with 3-4 young arms in various roles is fine. Papelbon and 5-6 young arms is not.

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11-02-2012, 12:16 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Michael Bourn had a +22.5 UZR. More than double the next closest CF in baseball and the best in the entire league!!! McCutchen and Jones had negative UZRs. Trout was +13 but according to fangraphs he didn't have enough innings to qualify.
And last year he had a -6.4. UZR is not a good stat. Maybe if you take like a 5 years worth of data, but a single season's worth isn't very helpful.

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11-02-2012, 03:11 PM
  #250
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And last year he had a -6.4. UZR is not a good stat. Maybe if you take like a 5 years worth of data, but a single season's worth isn't very helpful.
I was making the case for gold glove this year. He has a career UZR/150 of +11 which is really good. He was +20 in 2010. The stat definitely has its flaws but its a lot more accurate than using fielding percentage. When I combine the stat with the eye ball test, I agree with it a lot more than I disagree with it.

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