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Rob Blake: HHOFer? If so, first ballot?

View Poll Results: Rob Blake
1st ballot HHOFer 4 12.90%
HHOFer, but not 1st ballot 20 64.52%
Not a HHOFer 7 22.58%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-12-2012, 06:08 PM
  #1
RECsGuy*
 
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Rob Blake: HHOFer? If so, first ballot?

Stanley Cup (led all COL dmen in pts in '01)
Norris Trophy
Olympic Gold
One of just 26 Triple Gold Club members

11x 40-pts seasons
7x 50pts seasons
1x 60-points season

1x 1st Team All Star
3x 2nd Team All Star

1,270 gp - 777 pts
Playoffs: 146 gp - 73 pts

BTW, when does he become eligible for induction?

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Old
09-12-2012, 06:10 PM
  #2
kmad
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Could be the weakest Norris since Randy Carlyle.

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09-12-2012, 07:14 PM
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revolverjgw
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4 time all-star and Norris winner, number one d-man on a Cup winner, I'd guess every d-man with a comparable resume is in the hall or on their way. Put up almost 800 points in an era where that means a LOT. He should get in.

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09-12-2012, 07:42 PM
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Nalens Oga
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I'd say so. He was an elite dman for at least a decade. That alone is extremely tough to do.

Although my standars are lower and I'd put a guy like Andrechyuk in there and have Shanahan a 1st balloter with more than 4 per yr.

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Old
09-12-2012, 07:42 PM
  #5
BenchBrawl
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yes he will get in , not sure about 1st ballot

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Old
09-12-2012, 09:46 PM
  #7
Oowatanite
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Definitely in. Not a first ballot IMO.

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Old
09-12-2012, 09:51 PM
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tarheelhockey
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First ballot is meaningless.

Yes, he will be in the Hall. Maybe in the lower tier of defenseman inductees, but worthy nonetheless.

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Old
09-12-2012, 10:16 PM
  #9
Evincar
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Hall for sure. He definitely doesnt have a resume that merits a first ballot induction but neither did Sundin so who cares anymore.

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09-12-2012, 10:50 PM
  #10
JackSlater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
First ballot is meaningless.

Yes, he will be in the Hall. Maybe in the lower tier of defenseman inductees, but worthy nonetheless.
Yes. I don't understand the whole first ballot thing. If a guy deserves to be in the HHOF and there aren't four more deserving guys ahead of him, then he should go in on the first try. Blake should get into the HHOF, and that's all that matters.

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09-12-2012, 11:10 PM
  #11
Ziggy Stardust
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He was among the best defensemen of his era, so I think he'll get in. For a while it was Blake, Pronger and Lidstrom who were the top 3 dmen in the league, and he did beat some tough competition to win the Norris in '98. I believe he was also named the best defenseman at the Nagano Olympics in '98.

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Old
09-12-2012, 11:24 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Could be the weakest Norris since Randy Carlyle.
You know, it actually could be.

But, he easily has the supporting resume to make the hall regardless.

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09-13-2012, 01:09 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Could be the weakest Norris since Randy Carlyle.
23 goals in a season by a defenseman in the DPE? Yeah, not weak at all.

As a matter of fact, can you find me even ONE other dman who scored as many goals a single season during the DPE?

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09-13-2012, 01:37 AM
  #14
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Blake is a funny case.

On paper, he's absolutely a HHOFer. Ticks every box - Norris, Cup, international success, All-Star nods.

But as someone who saw a ton of him for his whole career, man, was he over-rated.

IMO he benefitted a ton from playing his entire career on the West Coast, where most of the media and award voters didn't see him play nearly as much as others. To me, he's a hell of a lot closer to McCabe and Jovanovski than he was to Lidstrom/Pronger/Niedermayer. He was an offensive defender who hit, and his defensive game was never elite. Average positionally, average hockey sense, constantly running out of position to throw ridiculous ass-checks.

I really wonder how he would have been treated and viewed if he'd been put in a position like, say, McCabe was put into in Toronto.

To his credit, he did usually raise his game in a Canadian jersey and seemed to play a more intelligent and controlled game, and that's probably something that helped his legacy a lot.

And yeah, his Norris is a bit of a joke.

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09-13-2012, 01:44 AM
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And yeah, his Norris is a bit of a joke.
Again, name just one defenseman who scored as many as 23 goals in a season during the DPE.

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09-13-2012, 02:13 AM
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Again, name just one defenseman who scored as many as 23 goals in a season during the DPE.
Gonchar? Aucoin? Ozolinsh? Didn't win them Norris Trophies.

Lidstrom and Numminen scored more points that season while both were also substantially better defensively.

Blake won because voters were still stuck in 1970s mentality where the 'Big Brusing Canadian' surely must be great defensively while the 'Soft Low PIM Euro' must surely not be.

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09-13-2012, 06:08 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
First ballot is meaningless.

Yes, he will be in the Hall. Maybe in the lower tier of defenseman inductees, but worthy nonetheless.
here's what i think first ballot should mean. not saying that's actually what it does mean to voters, but theoretically the idea is some guys need the benefit of an extra two, five, ten years before we can really understand their career in context. the selection committee needs time to think about whether pavel bure, eric lindros, doug gilmour, etc. were really hall of famers. so even in a year where the committee only inducts two guys, a bure or a gilmour doesn't automatically get in.

it would have been really great for a guy like joe nieuwendyk to have been given that treatment. maybe it doesn't make a difference, because the committee is going to induct him anyway, but that's definitely a guy where i want you to take a good long time to decide whether a weaker conn smythe, three cups with three teams (only one of which he was a key contributor on), and 1,000 points mostly in a stats-inflating era is really HHOF worthy.

whereas a guy like rob blake, sure he wasn't as great as a conventional slam dunk first ballot HHOFer like lidstrom or sakic, but there is no doubt (imo) that he is a hall of famer. so unless there are four guys up who had greater careers than him, there shouldn't be anything keeping him out.

but that's theory, not practice. who knows how the selection committee actually thinks.

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09-13-2012, 06:23 AM
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I really wonder how he would have been treated and viewed if he'd been put in a position like, say, McCabe was put into in Toronto.

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09-13-2012, 07:18 AM
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I think he will get in--but second time around.

he played on some stacked teams

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09-13-2012, 07:52 AM
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On the paper he looks like HOFer, but watching him play doesnt scream HOFer. Not the worst, but definitely weaker induction.

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09-13-2012, 01:57 PM
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Stats probably says HoF actual play, no. He constantly needed to be babysat by a better defensive defenseman (Boucher, Norström, Bourque, Foote). Probably the absolute worst Norris winner of all time. Yes, worse than Carlyle.

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09-13-2012, 03:23 PM
  #22
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Stats probably says HoF actual play, no. He constantly needed to be babysat by a better defensive defenseman (Boucher, Norström, Bourque, Foote). Probably the absolute worst Norris winner of all time. Yes, worse than Carlyle.
That's possible, but you'd have to point out an example of Blake playing without a "babysitter" and failing during his prime for that to be taken as true. The defensively responsible partners he played with mostly shows that this was the best way to maximize his talents, rather than having him "babysit" a rookie or something like that.

Is there an example of him playing with a kid like Berg or Skoula and getting exposed?

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09-13-2012, 03:27 PM
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I was very impressed by how well an aging Blake played defensively for San Jose after his offensive skills mostly left him

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09-13-2012, 03:31 PM
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I was very impressed by how well an aging Blake played defensively for San Jose after his offensive skills mostly left him
I think they call that "Niedermayering". Be selfish and offensive for 75% of your career, get responsible when you're 33 or 34, and watch everyone retroactively apply that later defensive play to your entire career.

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09-13-2012, 03:34 PM
  #25
jkrx
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That's possible, but you'd have to point out an example of Blake playing without a "babysitter" and failing during his prime for that to be taken as true. The defensively responsible partners he played with mostly shows that this was the best way to maximize his talents, rather than having him "babysit" a rookie or something like that.

Is there an example of him playing with a kid like Berg or Skoula and getting exposed?
I think there are some clips somewhere from 2002 when he was paired with DeVries. Not exactly a good combo. My memory is a bit fuzzy on specific examples but I will try to look some up for those that didn't see Blake.

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