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Gillis: Potential Return For Luongo May Not Improve Canucks **Mod Warning #86**

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:31 AM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
They'll dump other players for less than move Luongo for a 3rd. Get real.
Like Burrows

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09-14-2012, 11:33 AM
  #377
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So if the Canucks get Doan, you're saying Lu has less trade value than a guy like Alex Sulzer? In what world does Sulzer garner a better return than Luongo?
Not commenting on Luongo's value at all.

My analogy though is the Erhoff trade. VAN was able to pick up a top 4 d-man which additional potential for 2 suspects that realistically at the time of the trade had little or no chance of NHL careers. They were able to do that because SJ was desperate to clear up cap room.

To the extent that VAN was desperate to clear cap room, or was afraid that the situation would negatively impact the chemistry of the team. IMO, it's possible that Gillis would be willing to move Luongo for less than his perceived value. However, IMO that's somewhat of a long shot.

I do find it "unusual" though that a GM would come out and make a public statement like this about a potential deal. It's almost like he's preparing the masses for getting less back in the deal than the public expects. Anybody remember a case of a GM doing something like this?

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09-14-2012, 11:34 AM
  #378
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Like Burrows
Why dump Burrows? He only makes $2M.

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09-14-2012, 11:36 AM
  #379
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Honestly, if we signed Doan, I wouldn't mind letting Luongo go for Kadri/Petrovic + 2nd.

We'd need the cap space and wouldn't be able to take salary going our way, so a discounted price.

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09-14-2012, 11:42 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Not commenting on Luongo's value at all.

My analogy though is the Erhoff trade. VAN was able to pick up a top 4 d-man which additional potential for 2 suspects that realistically at the time of the trade had little or no chance of NHL careers. They were able to do that because SJ was desperate to clear up cap room.

To the extent that VAN was desperate to clear cap room, or was afraid that the situation would negatively impact the chemistry of the team. IMO, it's possible that Gillis would be willing to move Luongo for less than his perceived value. However, IMO that's somewhat of a long shot.

I do find it "unusual" though that a GM would come out and make a public statement like this about a potential deal. It's almost like he's preparing the masses for getting less back in the deal than the public expects. Anybody remember a case of a GM doing something like this?
Vancouver still had to outbid the offer of the 28 other team to acquire Erhoff.

When a team must move a player, it only force a team to accept the best offer around the league for the player instead of waiting for a team to pay their asking price. And sometime the gaps between both valueis large, but the fact that a player need to be traded doesn't affect at all the bidding value from the other teams who still need to outbid any other team to acquire the player.

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09-14-2012, 11:44 AM
  #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
They'll dump other players for less than move Luongo for a 3rd. Get real.
I wonder how Keith Ballard's capcussion symptoms have been lately?

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Old
09-14-2012, 11:45 AM
  #382
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Exactly. Also helps when the owner is among the team's biggest fans...
And a roster filled with team-first players who are playoff-focused... Malhotra, how's the eye? Edler how's the leg? Ballard, how's the concussion? The way there has been a steady stream of LTIR over the past couple of years is "interesting"... At best, the Canucks are players-first and want to be extra-cautious / take your time, rest, heal... And the team-first players here agree...

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09-14-2012, 11:46 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
And a roster filled with team-first players who are playoff-focused... Malhotra, how's the eye? Edler how's the leg? Ballard, how's the concussion? The way there has been a steady stream of LTIR over the past couple of years is "interesting"... At best, the Canucks are players-first and want to be extra-cautious / take your time, rest, heal...
Tell that to Cody Hodgson and Ryan Kesler.

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09-14-2012, 11:50 AM
  #384
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Tell that to Cody Hodgson and Ryan Kesler.
You just need a few / the majority who want to be properly healed before stepping back on the ice... Others are more difficult to protect from themselves... I think Kesler learned his lesson...

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09-14-2012, 11:53 AM
  #385
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Anybody got a clue what LTIR changes are anticipated in the new CBA?

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09-14-2012, 12:04 PM
  #386
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Anybody got a clue what LTIR changes are anticipated in the new CBA?
I don't... But I think the teams and the players can both agree that the teams and the players shouldn't be punished for when significant injuries occur... LTIR is best for everybody, if the NHL and NHLPA are both serious about the health of the players... Who wants players to be pressured (themselves, I need to come back asap to help the team... or, the teams, we need you back asap to help the team) to rush back before they're ready? Who wants players to be ditched and left in limbo because they got seriously hurt - and the team could really use the cap space for help? I'd imagine most team fans like LTIR as well? It's one of the very few things that I think most stakeholders who are involved in hockey can agree on, that LTIR is good...

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09-14-2012, 12:08 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Honestly, if we signed Doan, I wouldn't mind letting Luongo go for Kadri/Petrovic + 2nd.

We'd need the cap space and wouldn't be able to take salary going our way, so a discounted price.
Depends on the cap. If it stays as is for this season. I'd take back Connolly from Toronto and ship off Raymond. Between him and Luongo we would squeeze just under. Obviously, if the cap drops to 65m or something. No such deal can be made. Kadri may be able to step in though.

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09-14-2012, 12:10 PM
  #388
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I don't... But I think the teams and the players can both agree that the teams and the players shouldn't be punished for when significant injuries occur... LTIR is best for everybody, if the NHL and NHLPA are both serious about the health of the players... Who wants players to be pressured (themselves, I need to come back asap to help the team... or, the teams, we need you back asap to help the team) to rush back before they're ready? Who wants players to be ditched and left in limbo because they got seriously hurt - and the team could really use the cap space for help? I'd imagine most team fans like LTIR as well? It's one of the very few things that I think most stakeholders who are involved in hockey can agree on, that LTIR is good...
As long as the players are getting their pay check I have no idea why they would care about LTIR. So I don't think the NHLPA would have any concerns if it were adjusted or removed entirely.

Like you I don't have a clue but I would think any GM might be aware that changes to it might be coming. Just sayin'

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09-14-2012, 12:14 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
As long as the players are getting their pay check I have no idea why they would care about LTIR. So I don't think the NHLPA would have any concerns if it were adjusted or removed entirely. Like you I don't have a clue but I would think any GM might be aware that changes to it might be coming. Just sayin'
Not knowing if they are going to be ditched because of limited cap space? With LTIR, they know that they are still a part of the team... Because the team can adapt while the player is out, they feel less pressured to hurry back before they are ready... For sure, here on the Canucks, more players would have been back before they are ready if the Canucks didn't have their roster spots covered until they are ready to came back... They can take advantage of the team resources to get better and healed... For sure, Malhotra would have been ditched if his eye injury was chewing up $2.5 in cap space... How sad is that? Freak accident, out of a job... Sure, he gets paid... But still, I think he'd care...

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09-14-2012, 12:59 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Not commenting on Luongo's value at all.

My analogy though is the Erhoff trade. VAN was able to pick up a top 4 d-man which additional potential for 2 suspects that realistically at the time of the trade had little or no chance of NHL careers. They were able to do that because SJ was desperate to clear up cap room.

To the extent that VAN was desperate to clear cap room, or was afraid that the situation would negatively impact the chemistry of the team. IMO, it's possible that Gillis would be willing to move Luongo for less than his perceived value. However, IMO that's somewhat of a long shot.

I do find it "unusual" though that a GM would come out and make a public statement like this about a potential deal. It's almost like he's preparing the masses for getting less back in the deal than the public expects. Anybody remember a case of a GM doing something like this?
He isn't "doing" anything.

He's saying that the player/player's we get back will not be better than the player we lose in Luongo. Which is indisputable. Quit trying to stir up something that isn't there.

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Old
09-14-2012, 01:23 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Depends on the cap. If it stays as is for this season. I'd take back Connolly from Toronto and ship off Raymond. Between him and Luongo we would squeeze just under. Obviously, if the cap drops to 65m or something. No such deal can be made. Kadri may be able to step in though.
If the cap drops, Kadri wouldn't be an option as the Leafs couldn't fit Luongo without clearing saalary.

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09-14-2012, 01:25 PM
  #392
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If the cap drops, Kadri wouldn't be an option as the Leafs couldn't fit Luongo without clearing saalary.
So why couldn't we get Kadri as well as salary?

We may have to involve a third team that doesn't spend to the cap to make a deal go through, though.

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09-14-2012, 01:27 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Haha, don't blame ya. He's a passionate fan anyway.

Someone Tweeted the Friday before the draft that the rumored deal was Upshall, Matthias, and a 2nd. Something happened and that obviously didn't materialize, it was one of the big boys who Tweeted it. Now that we signed Clem, and he's on for two years along with Theo's NTC and his open desire to retire here, I'd imagine he'd be included. Would mean, I'd guess, that the 2nd could change to a 3rd instead. (though, I think we traded the 3rd, sorry)

Unavailable prospects are Hubey, Jugs, and likely Howden, with Shore, Robak, Petrovich possibly being some available who could make an impact.
So to amend the previous 3 way deal with Columbus to something more palatable for Florida fans:

To Florida: Luongo, CLB 3rd
To Columbus: Raymond, Upshall, Clemmenson
To Vancouver: Matthias, Petrovic, LAK 1st via CLB

I think this works for everyone. Florida gets the elite talent in the deal while only giving up spare parts and no 1sts. Columbus gets two top9 players and a well respected journeyman goalie for two expendable picks. We get a roster player at a position of need who's big, fairly young and has a great cap hit, along with a good prospect and a 1st.

Any objections?

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09-14-2012, 01:30 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
So to amend the previous 3 way deal with Columbus to something more palatable for Florida fans:

To Florida: Luongo, CLB 3rd
To Columbus: Raymond, Upshall, Clemmenson
To Vancouver: Matthias, Petrovic, LAK 1st via CLB

I think this works for everyone. Florida gets the elite talent in the deal while only giving up spare parts and no 1sts. Columbus gets two top9 players and a well respected journeyman goalie for two expendable picks. We get a roster player at a position of need who's big, fairly young and has a great cap hit, along with a good prospect and a 1st.

Any objections?
I think part of the reason why Columbus would do it is so they could have a decent veteran starter. Clemmenson is not really what they're looking for, I think.

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09-14-2012, 01:34 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I think part of the reason why Columbus would do it is so they could have a decent veteran starter. Clemmenson is not really what they're looking for, I think.
That's possible. I'm sure Viqsi will come sort this out for us soon

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09-14-2012, 01:36 PM
  #396
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09-14-2012, 01:42 PM
  #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
So to amend the previous 3 way deal with Columbus to something more palatable for Florida fans:

To Florida: Luongo, CLB 3rd
To Columbus: Raymond, Upshall, Clemmenson
To Vancouver: Matthias, Petrovic, LAK 1st via CLB

I think this works for everyone. Florida gets the elite talent in the deal while only giving up spare parts and no 1sts. Columbus gets two top9 players and a well respected journeyman goalie for two expendable picks. We get a roster player at a position of need who's big, fairly young and has a great cap hit, along with a good prospect and a 1st.

Any objections?
As far as 3 ways gos that is not a bad offer.

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09-14-2012, 01:44 PM
  #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
So to amend the previous 3 way deal with Columbus to something more palatable for Florida fans:

To Florida: Luongo, CLB 3rd
To Columbus: Raymond, Upshall, Clemmenson
To Vancouver: Matthias, Petrovic, LAK 1st via CLB

I think this works for everyone. Florida gets the elite talent in the deal while only giving up spare parts and no 1sts. Columbus gets two top9 players and a well respected journeyman goalie for two expendable picks. We get a roster player at a position of need who's big, fairly young and has a great cap hit, along with a good prospect and a 1st.

Any objections?
I actually think the exact same thing would also work with Toronto, swapping Matthias with Bozak, Petrovic with Kadri, and Clemmenson with Reimer.(If CBJ want him)

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09-14-2012, 01:45 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
So to amend the previous 3 way deal with Columbus to something more palatable for Florida fans:

To Florida: Luongo, CLB 3rd
To Columbus: Raymond, Upshall, Clemmenson
To Vancouver: Matthias, Petrovic, LAK 1st via CLB

I think this works for everyone. Florida gets the elite talent in the deal while only giving up spare parts and no 1sts. Columbus gets two top9 players and a well respected journeyman goalie for two expendable picks. We get a roster player at a position of need who's big, fairly young and has a great cap hit, along with a good prospect and a 1st.

Any objections?
I think Columbus gets hosed. I think they have more Raymond's then they know what to do with.

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09-14-2012, 01:47 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
So to amend the previous 3 way deal with Columbus to something more palatable for Florida fans:

To Florida: Luongo, CLB 3rd
To Columbus: Raymond, Upshall, Clemmenson
To Vancouver: Matthias, Petrovic, LAK 1st via CLB

I think this works for everyone. Florida gets the elite talent in the deal while only giving up spare parts and no 1sts. Columbus gets two top9 players and a well respected journeyman goalie for two expendable picks. We get a roster player at a position of need who's big, fairly young and has a great cap hit, along with a good prospect and a 1st.

Any objections?
I just don't see the point of CLB giving up a late first round pick abd a 3rd for spare parts from Vancouver and FLA. It makes no sense for the apparent goals of the team. CLB is going through a full rebuild. It seems like CLB fully intends for this to be a tough season on the ice for them.

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