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Gillis: Potential Return For Luongo May Not Improve Canucks **Mod Warning #86**

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Old
09-13-2012, 09:53 AM
  #151
Liferleafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
"three teams": VAN - FLA - TOR?

EDIT: Example:
1. Luongo to FLA
2. Theodore to TOR
3. TOR draft pick + FLA prospect + FLA roster player to VAN
In my opinion, if TO is involved, i'd want Luongo. Otherwise...leave us out.

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09-13-2012, 09:53 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Y


Any GM in the league can take a wild guess, but they'd be a fool to rely on it. Nobody knows how guys like Anders Lindback, Braden Holtby, Michael Neuvirth, James Reimer, Jakob Markstrom, Corey Crawford, Tuukka Rask, Jonathan Bernier, etc. are going to play this year. If every one of those goaltenders flops this year, Luongo will have much greater value than he does today. If every one of those goaltenders has a breakout year, Luongo will have much less value than he does today.
I think they are doing educated guess, with the help of their scout. Predicting a market doesn't need to be 100% accurate, as long as we can predict trend and take their decision accordingly.

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09-13-2012, 09:55 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
From the makeup of the team, it wouldn't hurt the Canucks to have more high-end forward prospects. I think they'd even benefit significantly in a couple of years from just trading Luongo for some picks (1st and a 2nd, maybe?).



Actually 15% more of 50% would be 57.5% of the starts, which is still closer to 1/2 the starts than 2/3 of the starts, if just barely.

I know what you meant, but I love being pedantic.
Depends on how you read it. Either 15% more than 50% of the starts which is 65% of the starts (basically 2/3) or 15% more than the "other" guy, which would be your number. Clearly I intended the first meaning.

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Old
09-13-2012, 10:02 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Bryzgalov definitely does not have negative value. He is a fairly good starting goaltender, if overpaid. Similar to Dion Phaneuf, who is a decent #1 defenseman, but overpaid. A good prospect(the term top is misleading, he isn't even the best prospect in Toronto) and a 2nd is hardly breaking the bank.

EDIT: What if I took out the 2nd?
How about you edit again.....just leave the 2nd and take out everything else.

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09-13-2012, 10:05 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
In my opinion, if TO is involved, i'd want Luongo. Otherwise...leave us out.
I'd take Markstrom.
Theodore...no way!


Last edited by TMI: 09-13-2012 at 01:03 PM. Reason: trolling
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Old
09-13-2012, 10:08 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
I doubt he's softening. If there's no trade by Saturday then there's no trade until the end of the lockout. Gillis sounds like he's pretty content to wait until after.
It appears other teams are just fine with that as well. Just like with Howsen, the deal will certainly soften at some point.

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Old
09-13-2012, 10:10 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
And he will likely play the point with Edler/Hamhuis, especially on the powerplay, thus taking on the role of Ehrhoff. Frankly, if his season with Florida was not a flash in the pan. One could argue he will be better simply because he is stronger defensively than Ehrhoff.
Salo played the point on the PP too. Garrison is not a smoothe puck mover like Ehrhoff was...he's a lot more like Salo.

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Old
09-13-2012, 10:13 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
I'd take Markstrom.
ThreeorFour...no way!
As someone else said, as good of a "prospect" Markstrom is...we have a bushell full of unproven goalies. We need a true 1G.

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09-13-2012, 10:18 AM
  #159
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Kadri, Bozak, 2nd for Luongo?

Although I really think a 1st would have to be coming our way, for arguments sake Bozak + 2nd = 1st.

So Kadri + 1st/ Bozak+2nd is the lowest I'd go.

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Old
09-13-2012, 10:34 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Man seriously I don't understand why people want to move Liles so bad. Did people forget what he did for this team in the time before his concussion. He came back too early give him the time to recover and he will impress.

Also I understand MacArthur as he is a asset we have plenty of but I would much reather MacA with something we really do not want for Lou. Komi or Lombardi has to go the other way or it is truly a no go.



Yeah and it is soo nice having you tell TOR and FLA fans we need to include our top prospects to get this guy. Face it Lou value is just not there. I mean Gillis seems to be coming around when will you?



Honestly and this is not a knock on Markstrom in any way as I really like the guy but I would much rather Toronto continue with Reimer and Scrivens. On top of that we have Owyua who in his stint with the Marlies played extremely well. Best bet for Markstrom is look towards Chicago.
Hmm, Markstrom to Toronto, Chicago... Hey I know, what about Florida? Hmm, Luongo to Florida is a tough trade to make... Hey I know, what about Florida doesn't trade for Luongo and Luongo and the Canucks can straighten out their mess on their own. Just sayin.

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09-13-2012, 10:43 AM
  #161
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It doesn't sound like it at all imo. Still sounds like he's pumping Luongo's tires. Anyway, I refrain from saying "I told you so" until it actually happens

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09-13-2012, 10:53 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Kadri, Bozak, 2nd for Luongo?

Although I really think a 1st would have to be coming our way, for arguments sake Bozak + 2nd = 1st.

So Kadri + 1st/ Bozak+2nd is the lowest I'd go.
Your not getting Kadri or a 1st in a deal for Luongo.

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09-13-2012, 10:55 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Your not getting Kadri or a 1st in a deal for Luongo.
Says you.

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09-13-2012, 10:58 AM
  #164
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sounds like many here were right and nobody offers any value for him

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09-13-2012, 11:03 AM
  #165
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The return for Luongo will be an "overpaid" roster player and a B Level Prospect who will push for a roster spot this season. One or both of these positions will need to be a bigger grittier player (see the Hodgson for Kassian deal).

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09-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Going 50/50 indicates that neither goalie is playing well enough to "grab the ball and run with." And don't give me, "Well, we've got to get Roberto his starts" crap. Isn't winning priority No. 1? If If Schneider is playing well, you don't sit him just so Roberto can stay warm. You stay with the hot hand until it gets cold, period. If Schneider can't nail down the No. 1 job, obviously you hang onto Luongo as an insurance policy, but if Cory shows he can catch fire for long stretches, you can be certain that Luongo won't be pleased wasting away at the relatively youthful age of 33 (for a goalie) on the bench.
If one goalie is putting up a 0.925 save% and the other goalie is putting up a 0.930 save%, I'm okay with neither being better enough to grab the ball and run with it.

At the end of the day, as a contender, ensuring you have good goaltending is more important than getting rid of the contract unless the contract is stopping you from doing something else.


Last edited by TMI: 09-13-2012 at 12:43 PM. Reason: trolling
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09-13-2012, 12:15 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
You seem to be missing the point. There's an inherit value to playoff teams to only having to pay a player post deadline, and getting him in the playoffs for free.

Vancouver is the type of team that's going to pay for that value. Columbus, as a non-playoff team, is the type that will build for the future using that effect. At the end of the day, the Canucks are going to put the best team out on the ice that they can under the salary cap. Keeping Luongo at the start of the year will mean $5.3m they cannot spend elsewhere.

Sure, if pursuing picks/prospects they'll get the most value at the deadline, but picks/prospects aren't going to help them win the cup this year. If they were to move him at the deadline, they'll simply want to turn around and trade picks/prospects for a player that helps them. That player is going to have the same effect as Luongo, being overvalued relative to picks as the deadline approaches, so there really is no net gain.
Thanks for trying to explain to me what's best for Vancouver, but we would be fine with a return of picks/prospects if that's where the value is. Gillis has said on multiple occasions that he would like to add some younger players to the organization.

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Old
09-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Kadri = Good Prospect
Ashton = B prospect
Macarthur = Tweener
Connolly = Cap dump.

Frankly anything less than Kadri + 1st or Kadri + Bozak + 2nd would be a no-go imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Kadri, Bozak, 2nd for Luongo?

Although I really think a 1st would have to be coming our way, for arguments sake Bozak + 2nd = 1st.

So Kadri + 1st/ Bozak+2nd is the lowest I'd go.
The Leafs 1st is more than the highest I'd offer for Luongo (let alone adding a prospect like Kadri as well).

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09-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #169
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Liles, MacArthur and puck for Luo + Alberts ?

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09-13-2012, 12:19 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Your not getting Kadri or a 1st in a deal for Luongo.
I would give....ahhhh....forget it.

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09-13-2012, 12:24 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Kadri, Bozak, 2nd for Luongo?

Although I really think a 1st would have to be coming our way, for arguments sake Bozak + 2nd = 1st.

So Kadri + 1st/ Bozak+2nd is the lowest I'd go.
I think it's pretty slim that any team will be offering a 1st, TO (after finishing low for 5 years) almost definately won't.

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09-13-2012, 12:57 PM
  #172
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I think it's pretty slim that any team will be offering a 1st, TO (after finishing low for 5 years) almost definately won't.
We'll see.
http://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2012/...-it-make-sense

Here a Florida writer says:
Quote:
Don't wish to offend Canucks management or fans with the typical Matthias/Ellerby/Santorelli for Lou drumbeat, so stand down. I see it as far more likely VAN ultimately receives a first-round selection and little else, or some variation of early-round picks, but no prime prospects; call me overly conservative but that's the market today.
So if Florida, who doesn't really need Luongo would be willing to offer a 1st+minor stuff, I would presume Toronto, who has a bigger need would be willing to do a 1st+better stuff.

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09-13-2012, 01:00 PM
  #173
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Even if Toronto was willing to offer more, Luongo would have to accept a trade there first.

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09-13-2012, 01:02 PM
  #174
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Florida needs to send salary back and Tallon supposedly wants the first for this draft.

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09-13-2012, 01:04 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
We'll see.
http://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2012/...-it-make-sense

Here a Florida writer says:

So if Florida, who doesn't really need Luongo would be willing to offer a 1st+minor stuff, I would presume Toronto, who has a bigger need would be willing to do a 1st+better stuff.
It's such a vague statement, as the value of 1st round picks varies wildly with position. I'd say he'd be right if the pick had a good chance of being 18-20+ overall, but definitely nothing under 16. I would imagine Toronto would have no problems dealing the 1st if the deal centered around it as it would make them a playoff team, but not as a throw-in on top of one of their players.

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