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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Edmonton rejects Oiler [Arena] bid for more taxpayer dollars

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Old
09-24-2012, 08:47 PM
  #276
DyerMaker66
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Originally Posted by Neatman View Post

Now to be honest, Id love to live in all those cities, at least for a while, but they all have their shortcomings. Edmonton has a lot of bonuses too. You can make 6 figures with very little education working in Northern Alberta.
I'm fairly certain I lived with one of those people. He worked in Edmonton, but lived in Peace River. He worked 14 straight days in a month,but was off the rest of the month, and he owned two houses on top of the room he rented in Peace River.

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09-24-2012, 08:47 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Neatman View Post
Have you lived in all those cities? Do you have extensive knowledge of what they're currently like?

I get that people dont think Edmonton is very nice, and some of those opinions are based in reality. However, most people dont have a clue and theyve never even been in the city, so how can they judge?

Just off the top of my head, Montreal has issues of corruption and its infrastructure is falling apart (literally). From what Ive heard, great place to visit or live temporarily, not a good place to work. Vancouver has some of the worst traffic imaginable, ridiculously high prices to live, and the excessive cloud cover causes a lot of people to become depressed (im assuming that's S.A.D. related). I personally love Calgary, although lots of transplants that move there complain that it has a very white collar feel, and people come off as very *******.

Now to be honest, Id love to live in all those cities, at least for a while, but they all have their shortcomings. Edmonton has a lot of bonuses too. You can make 6 figures with very little education working in Northern Alberta.
Fair Enough. I have been to all of them, extensive time no.

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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
I disagree with the second two, but that's just my opinion. Montreal would be #1 if Quebec wasn't insane.

My Rankings:
Ottawa
Edmonton/Montreal
Vancouver
Calgary


It was paid by TNSE who purchased Atlanta and then moved them to Winnipeg who is nowhere close to another franchise and hence should've owed nothing.
My Bad. The NHL is shady as hell for that.
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So let me get this straight...Jim Balsillie cannot buy a team that's bleeding money and move it to a new city that would be profitable, but Katz can move a team from a profitable city that's well supported to an untested market?
Yes. And this is why teams lose money. This is why the lockout is happening. Seattle will be fine but I guess the NHL feels 1 Alberta team is enough.

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Old
09-24-2012, 08:48 PM
  #278
Moonlapse Vertigo
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Is this guy a credible media guy in Philly? Cause to me he sounds like he has no idea what he's actually talking about and is going on a completely unnecesary rant that has nothing to do with anything on the arena.
He's still thinking about having to cover those defeats in the finals (in dreary Edmonton) in the 80's.

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09-24-2012, 08:51 PM
  #279
Melrose Munch
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
He's still thinking about having to cover those defeats in the finals (in dreary Edmonton) in the 80's.



Listen, I know you don't want to hear this but life will go on. There's hockey, there's other sports, there's life. Katz is all about money but money =/= happiness and he will find out soon enough.

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09-24-2012, 08:54 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Yes. And this is why teams lose money. This is why the lockout is happening. Seattle will be fine but I guess the NHL feels 1 Alberta team is enough.
Why is 1 Alberta team enough? The Oilers sell out with a high ticket price! I've read a lot of excuses people make for the teams in the south not being well supported. Everything from fans having to drive half an hour to get to the arena, to the team not having success. The Oilers team has been the worst in the league for several years yet they still sell out! The Oilers aren't a team that is outdrawn in the TV ratings by infomercials.

If Edmonton moves while Phoenix stays I'm done with hockey. Why should I, a fan of the Vancouver Canucks, have to pay outrageous ticket prices so that the league can take that money from my teams owner and use it to support teams that aren't even supported by their own fans? Especially while they allow teams that are profitable and are very very well supported to just up and leave? It makes absolutely zero business sense.

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09-24-2012, 08:54 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
@dantencer

Hang on to your hats...sources tell 630 CHED's @ReidWilkins that Wayne Gretzky, Kevin Lowe & Patrick LaForge are accompanying Daryl Katz.
Also accompanying the the group will be Jim Balsille who will be advising on how to gracefully finesse deals with the NHL and gently move teams from one city to another with a soft landing

edit: y2kcanucks mentioned the "B" word already

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09-24-2012, 08:58 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
This was posted in the Oilers arena thread regarding public funding of arenas:



Keep in mind the private investments in Vancouver and Ottawa went horribly south for those involved.
With all due respect what are you talking about regarding GM Place/Rogers Arena? There has never been any financial statement from Orca Bay showing a loss and neither was there a bankruptcy. The books were never open to the public. If you're referring to Griffiths having to sell his interests because he was in over his head, I dont see how that is relevant. The arena has always been set up as a separate entity that charges rent to the Canucks and by all accounts is a money maker.

As for the Senators going bankrupt all that needs to be said is ownership never had the money to buy the team to begin with and they built it in a stupid location. If the Senators weren't $50 million in debt out of the gate they probably never would have gone bankrupt.

As for the Oilers I can not understand how a cap ceiling team that was dead last in the standings can make $17 million per year and cry poor. Take off your blue and orange goggles for moment. Katz is a greedy owner and just about everyone except you sees this a mile away.

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09-24-2012, 09:00 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Why is 1 Alberta team enough? The Oilers sell out with a high ticket price! I've read a lot of excuses people make for the teams in the south not being well supported. Everything from fans having to drive half an hour to get to the arena, to the team not having success. The Oilers team has been the worst in the league for several years yet they still sell out! The Oilers aren't a team that is outdrawn in the TV ratings by infomercials.

If Edmonton moves while Phoenix stays I'm done with hockey. Why should I, a fan of the Vancouver Canucks, have to pay outrageous ticket prices so that the league can take that money from my teams owner and use it to support teams that aren't even supported by their own fans? Especially while they allow teams that are profitable and are very very well supported to just up and leave? It makes absolutely zero business sense.
Y2k you are 100 percent right, but look what is happening right now. A second lockout in 8 years. The NHL is circling the drain, it's a disaster. Nothing is supposed to make sense here. But Glendale is bending over and Edmonton is not.

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Old
09-24-2012, 09:03 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So let me get this straight...Jim Balsillie cannot buy a team that's bleeding money and move it to a new city that would be profitable, but Katz can move a team from a profitable city that's well supported to an untested market?
I'm assuming you know that JB tried to back-door 3 franchises vs. Katz just having a temper tantrum to extract more money, right? Besides, regarding Balsillie, with hindsight as my ally... ah, nevermind.

This whole thing is nothing more than farcical negotiation ploy anyway. The Earth would jump its axis if the Oilers relocated anywhere.

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09-24-2012, 09:07 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
So let me get this straight...Jim Balsillie cannot buy a team that's bleeding money and move it to a new city that would be profitable, but Katz can move a team from a profitable city that's well supported to an untested market?
A long a Katz does not bully the BOG, take season ticket deposits for the team before he owns it, lie like an arrogant A-hole, try to sue the NHL, then yes. Baldsilly did this 3 times and is a 3 times loser with no team or job now.

Katz does not want to move the team but he has to have a new arena going forward. If he does get it no matter how much the fans love the team they can and will be moved. Example Brooklyn Dodgers, Cleveland Browns, Winnipeg Jets.

Good luck Oiler fans having your team's relocation being a possibility is the worst thing to happen. I know from experience. I hope it does not happen. Keep the faith and pressure your politicians to help keep the team. I'm thinking this is a ploy but I thought that when the Oilers (NFL version) started talks here in Nashville.


Last edited by Gnashville: 09-24-2012 at 09:12 PM.
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09-24-2012, 09:10 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
A long a Katz does not bully the BOG, take season ticket deposits for the team before he owns it, lie like an arrogant A-hole, try to sue the NHL, then yes. Baldsilly did this 3 times and is a 3 times loser with no team or job now.

Katz does not want to move the team but he has to have a new arena going forward. If he does get it no matter how much the fans love the team they can and will be moved. Example Brooklyn Dodgers, Cleveland Browns, Winnipeg Jets.

Good luck Oiler fans having your team's relocation being a possibility is the worst thing to happen. I know from experience. I hope it does not happen. Keep the faith and pressure your politicians to help keep the team.
Maybe he should build an arena then if he needs it so badly

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09-24-2012, 09:11 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
A long a Katz does not bully the BOG, take season ticket deposits for the team before he owns it, lie like an arrogant A-hole, try to sue the NHL, then yes. Baldsilly did this 3 times and is a 3 times loser with no team or job now.

Katz does not want to move the team but he has to have a new arena going forward. If he does get it no matter how much the fans love the team they can and will be moved. [B]Example Brooklyn Dodgers, Cleveland Browns, Winnipeg Jets.

Good luck Oiler fans having your team's relocation being a possibility is the worst thing to happen. I know from experience. I hope it does not happen. Keep the faith and pressure your politicians to help keep the team.
That's right.

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I had this out with MasterDecoy, but the nHL has reached its waterloo...

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09-24-2012, 09:13 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If the Oilers move before Phoenix I'm done with hockey. A team that actually has a high ticket price and rabid fanbase could be on the verge of relocation, while the NHL does everything they can do to keep another team in a city where fans won't even go to games despite one of the lowest ticket prices in the league is absolutely ridiculous.
Would love to see a team in Seattle but this post pretty much sums it up! Obviously ownership in Edmonton playing games (not serious IMO) with city by this Seattle trip. If I was an Oiler fan I would be about as pissed as I am about Pittsburgh Pirates ownership with what is happening to you and your owner. Fortunately I believe most of us here in Seattle as potential fans see right through what is going on and your city council should as well.


edit: Hansen is pretty much a low key behind the scenes kind of guy (no unnecessary publicity) so Edmonton brass is making this trip as visible as possible IMO. Little surprised Hansen let them use him like this.

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09-24-2012, 09:15 PM
  #289
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i was going to write this news item off as pure posturing by Katz but it got me thinking of when the Jets left Winnipeg and the posturing that occured in the years before they actually did leave. i reckon nothings impossible. or is it anything is possible?

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09-24-2012, 09:16 PM
  #290
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LOL if Edmonton falls for this act. Let him move and force the team's history and logos to stay with the team. So many cities in North America have done this already. Call his bluff.

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09-24-2012, 09:17 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
LOL if Edmonton falls for this act. Let him move and force the team's history and logos to stay with the team. So many cities in North America have done this already. Call his bluff.
And if Edmonton loses the team they aren't going to get one back as long as there isn't a long term arena solution.

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09-24-2012, 09:19 PM
  #292
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With all due respect what are you talking about regarding GM Place/Rogers Arena? There has never been any financial statement from Orca Bay showing a loss and neither was there a bankruptcy. The books were never open to the public. If you're referring to Griffiths having to sell his interests because he was in over his head, I dont see how that is relevant. The arena has always been set up as a separate entity that charges rent to the Canucks and by all accounts is a money maker.

As for the Senators going bankrupt all that needs to be said is ownership never had the money to buy the team to begin with and they built it in a stupid location. If the Senators weren't $50 million in debt out of the gate they probably never would have gone bankrupt.

As for the Oilers I can not understand how a cap ceiling team that was dead last in the standings can make $17 million per year and cry poor. Take off your blue and orange goggles for moment. Katz is a greedy owner and just about everyone except you sees this a mile away.
I'd bring up the reports of the investors who invested in those arena going belly up due to the arena, but quite frankly I just don't care enough about Vancouver to bother.

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09-24-2012, 09:20 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Keep the faith and pressure your politicians to help keep the team.
I have no problem with Edmonton helping build Katz an arena. However, I don't like everything else he has included. Besides, if he didn't think he could make it work, he shouldn't have bought the team.

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09-24-2012, 09:24 PM
  #294
silvercanuck
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I'd bring up the reports of the investors who invested in those arena going belly up due to the arena, but quite frankly I just don't care enough about Vancouver to bother.
In other words you cant back up what you're saying with any kind of link showing figures etc. Why even reply to my post then?

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09-24-2012, 09:25 PM
  #295
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I know people are going to lose their **** about Gretzky going to Seattle with Katz, let's not forget that Mario Lemieux went on trips to Kansas City and Portland, yet the Penguins remain in Pittsburgh.

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09-24-2012, 09:25 PM
  #296
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Here's what Elliotte Friedman tweeted tonight.

Quote:
Obviously, Oilers are not going anywhere...but the threat just doesn't make sense.

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09-24-2012, 09:26 PM
  #297
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why don't they just play home games at Commonwealth? a lot more seats to sell will mean more revenue.

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09-24-2012, 09:27 PM
  #298
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Heh... actually, forget about Friedman. He must be drunk tonight. He seems like he's rambling.

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09-24-2012, 09:28 PM
  #299
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I know people are going to lose their **** about Gretzky going to Seattle with Katz, let's not forget that Mario Lemieux went on trips to Kansas City and Portland, yet the Penguins remain in Pittsburgh.
Yeah, but mario was a prospective buyer was he not?
Is gretz buying into oilers then?

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09-24-2012, 09:31 PM
  #300
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In other words you cant back up what you're saying with any kind of link showing figures etc. Why even reply to my post then?
sigh.

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