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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Edmonton rejects Oiler [Arena] bid for more taxpayer dollars

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Old
09-24-2012, 11:14 PM
  #326
danishh
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
are you aware that that is a horribly inaccurate puff piece from the arena proposal group (AKA Katz)?

any neutral or academic sources you care to offer?

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09-24-2012, 11:14 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Why doesn't the NHL help the Oilers build an arena? After all the money they've sunk into Phoenix, what's a few more million?
Because they don't want to. Gary said no more save the oilers campaigns.

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09-24-2012, 11:17 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by 2525 View Post
Other teams can get millions in revenue sharing and their fans pay next to nothing for tickets. Meanwhile Edmonton pays into RS.
Don't want to drag this off topic, but I'm curious if anyone has some media links on whether and how much Edmonton has paid into revenue sharing in any of the past five seasons? I have an article from 06 that they paid $100k into revenue sharing, implying they probably finished 10th in revenue subject to sharing but haven't been able to find anything for the years since then.

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09-24-2012, 11:19 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Because they don't want to. Gary said no more save the oilers campaigns.
I guess Bettman is one of the worst business men out there eh? I mean, if he'll do anything to save a failing franchise that's losing money, while allowing the relocation of a strong revenue producer. It makes no sense.

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09-24-2012, 11:21 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
are you aware that that is a horribly inaccurate puff piece from the arena proposal group (AKA Katz)?

any neutral or academic sources you care to offer?
Right. I remember you. You are that guy who vehemently opposed an Edmonton arena.

Yeah, I'll definitely take your opinion to heart!

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09-24-2012, 11:22 PM
  #331
Melrose Munch
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I guess Bettman is one of the worst business men out there eh? I mean, if he'll do anything to save a failing franchise that's losing money, while allowing the relocation of a strong revenue producer. It makes no sense.
Ego.

This the BOG. This is as much Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto as anyone. And if those were the 3 Canadian teams, does anyone in the BOG or NHLPA care? No. The NHLPA, as I was telling 2525, don't even care and many of their members prefer the us so don't think the players disagree with Bettman on this front. Why else are the fighting for more revenue sharing? To get money to the southern markets where there is low pressure and no fishbowl, no ridiculous media unlike Canada.


The NHL does not care about Canada and hasn't since 1995. Winnipeg was a one off.

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09-24-2012, 11:24 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Don't want to drag this off topic, but I'm curious if anyone has some media links on whether and how much Edmonton has paid into revenue sharing in any of the past five seasons? I have an article from 06 that they paid $100k into revenue sharing, implying they probably finished 10th in revenue subject to sharing but haven't been able to find anything for the years since then.
No because King Gary won't release that info for obvious reasons.

But he sure made it known how generous American teams were in the few years of the Canadian assistance plan. Failed to mention Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver gratefully helping too.

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09-24-2012, 11:28 PM
  #333
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Quote:
John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet

The Oilers made 18 million dollars last season, and were a contributor to NHL Revenue Sharing.

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09-24-2012, 11:33 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Right. I remember you. You are that guy who vehemently opposed an Edmonton arena.

Yeah, I'll definitely take your opinion to heart!
deal.
specifically, the funding for it.

i dont care what you think of my opinion, but please dont distort it.

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09-24-2012, 11:41 PM
  #335
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Edmonton moving to Seattle is the NHL equivalent of quitting your job to go on welfare.

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09-24-2012, 11:48 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by 2525 View Post
No because King Gary won't release that info for obvious reasons.

But he sure made it known how generous American teams were in the few years of the Canadian assistance plan. Failed to mention Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver gratefully helping too.
I'm quite certain the 2006 article I read with details wasn't sanctioned by the league office. Information leaks, reporters report.

Again, interested if anyone has articles with leaked figures for any year, or even just an acknowledgement from Edmonton they were a top 10 revenue team, requiring them to pay into revenue sharing.

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09-25-2012, 12:06 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
LOL at you thinking Canada cares about team sports like that. What incentive is there for a taxpayer who doesn't care from Grand Prarie let alone out east to rise up to keep the Oilers from leaving.


The Oilers Revenue that their making now is top 10. That can be replicated in Seattle. Plus Katz can keep the team if he wishes. Be serious, the Oilers are losing money right now.
Wow, you don't think Canada would care about this? LOL, indeed... Nothing stokes the fires of Canadian nationalism like hockey. It would be a PR and economic disaster for the NHL and Rexall pharmacies.

The Oilers currently sell out every game and have thousands on the waiting list for season tickets. This with the 4th highest ticket prices in the league, to watch the team with the worst overall record since the last lockout. A team that hasn't had a sniff of the playoffs since 2006.

So let's trade that for an untested market, where the franchise will be the 5th most important pro sports team in town (NFL->MLB->NBA*->MLS->NHL). Assuming they can even sell out 18,000 seats at an average of $50, that leaves them $11 million/year short of Edmonton's gate (16,839 * $70). Corporate sponsorship, luxury boxes and TV revenues won't make that up for a team that's #5 in the hearts and minds of Seattleites.

Makes no sense economically or from a PR standpoint.

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09-25-2012, 12:06 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
I'm quite certain the 2006 article I read with details wasn't sanctioned by the league office. Information leaks, reporters report.

Again, interested if anyone has articles with leaked figures for any year, or even just an acknowledgement from Edmonton they were a top 10 revenue team, requiring them to pay into revenue sharing.
The league doesnt let that info get out.

They also will do everything in their power to help Katz get the best deal he can possibly get so the next team that tries to extort money out of their host city has yet more precedent to say they need to remain competitive with.

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09-25-2012, 12:10 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Wow, you don't think Canada would care about this? LOL, indeed... Nothing stokes the fires of Canadian nationalism like hockey. It would be a PR and economic disaster for the NHL and Rexall pharmacies.

The Oilers currently sell out every game and have thousands on the waiting list for season tickets. This with the 4th highest ticket prices in the league, to watch the team with the worst overall record since the last lockout. A team that hasn't had a sniff of the playoffs since 2006.

So let's trade that for an untested market, where the franchise will be the 5th most important pro sports team in town (NFL->MLB->NBA*->MLS->NHL). Assuming they can even sell out 18,000 seats at an average of $50, that leaves them $11 million/year short of Edmonton's gate (16,839 * $70). Corporate sponsorship, luxury boxes and TV revenues won't make that up for a team that's #5 in the hearts and minds of Seattleites.

Makes no sense economically or from a PR standpoint.
Like when your team moved?

Face it, most people don't care about sports. even in the US 2/3 of the entire country did not watch the last super bowl. Why would you assume the majority of the country would care about this?And what has made you think the NHL cares about PR? If they did Balsillie would have a team.

And the NHL would be number 4 in seattle. MLS is rising, but its not there yet. But I guess if the lockout continues you would be right with the NHL being number 5. The last part is speculation and the fact you are bragging about ticket revenue shows how much of a weak sister the NHL is. Seattle has 4 million people. Who's to say they don't charge 80 and blow your theory out of the water? I can speculate too.

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09-25-2012, 12:12 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If the Oilers move before Phoenix I'm done with hockey. A team that actually has a high ticket price and rabid fanbase could be on the verge of relocation, while the NHL does everything they can do to keep another team in a city where fans won't even go to games despite one of the lowest ticket prices in the league is absolutely ridiculous.
The NHL owns the Coyotes, thus they have it in their power to keep the team in Glendale come hell or high water. The NHL does not own the Oilers and has little control over what Katz does with the team. Do you think Bettman wanted to see the Thrashers leave Atlanta? Did that stop the Thrashers from moving?

Yet not many people are able to differentiate between the situation with the Oilers and the Coyotes. The lack of critical thought is quite astonishing.

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09-25-2012, 12:16 AM
  #341
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The NHL owns the Coyotes, thus they have it in their power to keep the team in Glendale come hell or high water. The NHL does not own the Oilers and has little control over what Katz does with the team. Do you think Bettman wanted to see the Thrashers leave Atlanta? Did that stop the Thrashers from moving?

Yet not many people are able to differentiate between the situation with the Oilers and the Coyotes. The lack of critical thought is quite astonishing.
The point is they used their discretion to **** block Jimmy but not to save a Canadian market because of tax money.

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09-25-2012, 12:17 AM
  #342
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Bettman's true colour's (color's) starting to show, 11 teams below Edmonton in attendance last season, probably a handful above that discount tickets yet fights for teams in southern US markets that can't even give tickets away.
Yes, all Bettman's fault, not, you know, the actual owner of the Oilers.

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09-25-2012, 12:21 AM
  #343
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Yes, all Bettman's fault, not, you know, the actual owner of the Oilers.
Yes: Bettman does nothing at all. Just like Fehr does nothing at all.

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09-25-2012, 12:24 AM
  #344
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Yes, all Bettman's fault, not, you know, the actual owner of the Oilers.
Congratulations the first Bettman apologist I've encountered on the HFBoards!

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09-25-2012, 12:27 AM
  #345
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Congratulations the first Bettman apologist I've encountered on the HFBoards!
Apologizing for what? How is Katz threats of moving the Oilers Bettman's fault?

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09-25-2012, 12:29 AM
  #346
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Yes: Bettman does nothing at all. Just like Fehr does nothing at all.
If Bettman is all powerful and will follow through with the "Southern Strategy" as so many people are intimating, then what the heck happened in Atlanta? Oh, that's right. The final say for the sale and relocation of teams is actually set by the board of governors. Not Bettman.


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09-25-2012, 12:37 AM
  #347
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If Bettman is all powerful and will follow through with the "Southern Strategy" as so many people are intimating, then what the heck happened in Atlanta? Oh, that's right. The final say for the sale and relocation of teams is actually set by the board of governors. Not Bettman.
He couldn't afford to fund two failing franchises.


Last edited by DyerMaker66: 09-25-2012 at 12:44 AM.
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09-25-2012, 01:04 AM
  #348
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Absolutely ridiculous that its come to this point


Katz, what the heck are you doing?



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09-25-2012, 01:05 AM
  #349
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The point is they used their discretion to **** block Jimmy but not to save a Canadian market because of tax money.
You mean **** block as in denying an under the table deal with Moyes after he filed for bankruptcy? Let's not forget what Balsillie tried to do was a bit underhanded and ultimately blocked by the courts.

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09-25-2012, 01:13 AM
  #350
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Eh, I'm pretty sure this is just a sort-of blackmail move by Katz. I mean, would you really want to be known as the guy who bought the Edmonton Oilers just to move them to Seattle? Edmontonians would stop shopping at his Rexall Pharmacies en masse. They burned effigies of Peter Pocklington when he traded Gretzky, they would burn Katz, himself, if he moved the team. I mean, Edmontonians stick to their guns. My grandfather was from Edmonton and, one time, wouldn't use a particular brand of soy sauce because it was packaged in Calgary.

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