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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Edmonton rejects Oiler [Arena] bid for more taxpayer dollars

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Old
10-18-2012, 05:51 PM
  #626
Section337
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Ever since Katz bought the team it's been no secret as to what the end game would be. Relocation.
I disagree, since day 1 his goal was to make money off of real estate and buildings.

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10-18-2012, 06:14 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Warning: Conspiracy theory ahead

Let's say Katz's purchase of the Oilers was only the first step in well-laid out medium-term plan to develop a large part of Edmonton, the profits from which he projected to make anything Oilers-related look like peanut shells in comparison. He never really gave a crap about the team except for the goodwill it generated as being its saviour, and was simply a means to an end.

Let's further say that he's preserving his capital to remain liquid to fund the above-mentioned capital projects, whose viability and appeal skyrocket with a city-built and and owned super-deluxe sports and entertainment centre and Winter Garden sitting like an emerald in his new brooch.

If this is the case, (and it's a big "if" because it's purely off the top of my head as something that I would do in his shoes) there is almost zero chance of him moving the team from Edmonton, and is purely a power play to get the City to concede.

If my conspiracy theory is correct there is a chance, however, that if the above-described project(s) looks like a no-go due to the city's continued heel-digging, he may abandon his plans and simply the sell the team as it is no longer useful to him.
My conspiracy theory's growing legs.

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Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
I disagree, since day 1 his goal was to make money off of real estate and buildings.

The only fly in the conspiracy ointment jar is, with so much at stake why would he risk it for such a (comparatively) small sum of money?

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10-18-2012, 06:23 PM
  #628
Section337
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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
The only fly in the conspiracy ointment jar is, with so much at stake why would he risk it for such a (comparatively) small sum of money?
There is no doubt that he likes the Oilers, feels attached to the Oilers, and want him to do well. But he's also business man Katz, not just Edmonton Oilers' loving Katz.

Why would Edmonton Oilers' loving Katz end the Edmonton Oilers by moving the team?

Why would business man Katz end the Edmonton Oilers by moving the team to another location with many unknown risks, while at the same time giving up on the potential financial benefit from the land around a new arena in Edmonton, even if he is not part of the building of that arena.

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10-18-2012, 06:28 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
There is no doubt that he likes the Oilers, feels attached to the Oilers, and want him to do well. But he's also business man Katz, not just Edmonton Oilers' loving Katz.

Why would Edmonton Oilers' loving Katz end the Edmonton Oilers by moving the team?

Why would business man Katz end the Edmonton Oilers by moving the team to another location with many unknown risks, while at the same time giving up on the potential financial benefit from the land around a new arena in Edmonton, even if he is not part of the building of that arena.
Indeed that's why in the end i just don't see the Oilers leaving. In the case of Seattle i prefer it be a team that isn't doing good as it or an expansion rather than a team thats already in an established market.

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10-19-2012, 01:36 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
The City of Edmonton was (is?) planning on funding an arena. In fact, the city was going to put up 350 million dollars (give or take) with the final 100 million coming via the province. Where's Katz's investment?

Won't he have to pay for the rights of putting his name on the building? That's the deal Quebecor has with the city of Quebec.

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10-19-2012, 11:56 AM
  #631
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The Canadian Press article from yesterday....

Oilers owner says future unclear after new arena deal nixed/article4621500/

Quote:
In the post-vote scrum with reporters, Mandel said he believes the NHL and Bettman, whom he called a “great friend” to the city in the past, will recognize not only what the Oilers have done for Edmonton but what Edmonton has done for the Oilers.

“We trust the NHL believes in cities that treat the NHL properly,” he said. “This city has treated the NHL like a god.

“I think it’s the fourth highest (in) attendance and the fifth highest (in) ticket prices. You don’t go to a team that comes in last for three or four years in a row and fill the stadium every night — night in, night out, night in, night out — because you don’t like the game.

“I don’t think you’d do that in other cities in the NHL. Go through the list and see what people are paying 10 bucks a ticket for (elsewhere). You don’t get a ticket for the Edmonton Oilers for 10 bucks.”
Ooooo....burn.....

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10-19-2012, 03:03 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
The Canadian Press article from yesterday....

Oilers owner says future unclear after new arena deal nixed/article4621500/



Ooooo....burn.....
This has now gotten ugly. I remember a time when Mendel was defending Katz when the other council members were up in arms, now it seems Mendel is up in arms. I don't think this will be the end of it.

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10-19-2012, 03:48 PM
  #633
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Surely the NHL behind closed doors must also think their own partner went overboard. He had an arena deal that would probably top 10 in terms of owner friendliness and wanted more.

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10-19-2012, 04:13 PM
  #634
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter

Duhatschek: Katz lets Edmonton arena deal slip through his fingers

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10-19-2012, 05:06 PM
  #635
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City of Edmonton lets arena deal slip through their fingers.

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10-19-2012, 05:16 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
City of Edmonton lets arena deal slip through their fingers.
They are not the ones acting like rich spoiled billionaire brats throwing tantrums and uttering threats every time they don't get exactly what they want.

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10-19-2012, 05:46 PM
  #637
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I don't see the NHL letting a cash cow like Edmonton just slip through their fingers while trying like mad to find a home for Phoenix.

Oilers aren't leaving, Katz on the other hand may.

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10-19-2012, 06:12 PM
  #638
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you just described ottawa. They got it done.
you mean the team and owners that went bankrupt and all the banks that lost their investment?

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10-19-2012, 07:47 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
They are not the ones acting like rich spoiled billionaire brats throwing tantrums and uttering threats every time they don't get exactly what they want.
I see you missed the whole Northlands/city council debates last year. The city and Northlands both did more than their fair share of throwing tantrums and making it public in the media. The only difference is the city/Northlands posturing delayed the start of nehotiations and Katz did his at the end. Both parties have acted childish.

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10-19-2012, 08:13 PM
  #640
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I don't know what the league is doing here. They're in the middle of a CBA negotiation where HRR and "control" over such issues is on the table - to have even a hint of relocating one of the highest HRR teams in the league to a market that is, at best, speculative, is really really dumb.

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10-19-2012, 10:41 PM
  #641
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I don't know what the league is doing here. They're in the middle of a CBA negotiation where HRR and "control" over such issues is on the table - to have even a hint of relocating one of the highest HRR teams in the league to a market that is, at best, speculative, is really really dumb.
Who says Seattle is the end destination? Do you really think the league or Katz would lose money if the Oilers became the Nordiques in a couple years when their arena is complete? This team would turn record revenue being dropped in Quebec with it's level of talent and potential...merchandising alone would cover the 100M relocation fee I'd wager though it would be over time.

Then if the city proved they are serious...ie building the arena instead of talking about it more than a year after they signed the initail paperwork...a struggling franchise in the US could be relocated and renamed the Oilers. Wait...that framework sounds familiar

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10-20-2012, 12:18 AM
  #642
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Who says Seattle is the end destination? Do you really think the league or Katz would lose money if the Oilers became the Nordiques in a couple years when their arena is complete? This team would turn record revenue being dropped in Quebec with it's level of talent and potential...merchandising alone would cover the 100M relocation fee I'd wager though it would be over time.

Then if the city proved they are serious...ie building the arena instead of talking about it more than a year after they signed the initail paperwork...a struggling franchise in the US could be relocated and renamed the Oilers. Wait...that framework sounds familiar
Even if Edmonton were to get another franchise down the road (unlikely) that's still a nightmare scenario. I want this franchise. The one with the history and legacy.

No offense to Jets fans, but the situations aren't the same.

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10-20-2012, 01:38 AM
  #643
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I wonder if Bettman will fight as hard to keep the Oilers in Edmonton as he has for his failed attempts in markets where hockey just does not work or belong.

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10-20-2012, 02:16 AM
  #644
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
I see you missed the whole Northlands/city council debates last year. The city and Northlands both did more than their fair share of throwing tantrums and making it public in the media. The only difference is the city/Northlands posturing delayed the start of nehotiations and Katz did his at the end. Both parties have acted childish.
Yes, the 1,000 lb gorilla in the room.

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10-20-2012, 08:33 AM
  #645
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Even if Edmonton were to get another franchise down the road (unlikely) that's still a nightmare scenario. I want this franchise. The one with the history and legacy.

No offense to Jets fans, but the situations aren't the same.
I want this franchise too. Believe me as I've been watching this team for 25 years. The problem is with the hate between the city and Katz he has 2 options sell the team or move them. He won't get any sweetheart deals and as the cap rises his profits will be pinched out as the city/northlands get 1/2 the box suite revenue. Without goodwill and a willingness to cooperate with the owner the Oilers under Katz will not be profitable for anyone other than Northlands.

We don't exactly have a lot of billionaires in this city...we keep running them off. We would need another investment group like the EIG and if you remember those years I'm not sure profits would stay up and not sure how big of an ownership group would be needed to cover the risks.

While the circumstances surrounding the departure from Winnipeg and the potential second departure of Edmonton (1st was in the 90's) the end result may be the same. Lose a franchise, build arena, ownership group buys and relocates a team in a sinking US market.

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10-20-2012, 08:36 AM
  #646
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Yes, the 1,000 lb gorilla in the room.
Up until this summer Katz was practically Mother Teresa compared to the vitriol some council members were putting in the news and Northlands negotiations were a mockery of good faith.

Sad how quickly people forget things and even worse that we're now where we are. Wondering if Katz lost his mind or went off some medication; not to mention the whole future of the Oilers now.

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10-20-2012, 08:45 AM
  #647
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I wonder if Bettman will fight as hard to keep the Oilers in Edmonton as he has for his failed attempts in markets where hockey just does not work or belong.
He already has. In the 90's he set up a program to help struggling Canadian teams when the dollar value was hurting. He worked very hard in Edmonton to help the city put together a solid ownership group to buy the Oilers before the deadline to sell/relocate the team. It was so close it was literally an 11th hour victory for the city of Edmonton. Bettman has been working with Edmonton for nearly his entire time in office as the EIG was always slow to decisions as well.

IMO the only time Bettman hasn't really had some kind of eye over Edmonton has been recently uner Katz. Solid capital assets and 1 owner so easy decisions rather than committee meetings; and the team was moving in the right direction after a decade of treading water and slowly sinking. Even then he helped negotiate the Oct 2011 arena deal with the city, but he'd never fight for a CDN team right?


Last edited by Brian28: 10-20-2012 at 08:45 AM. Reason: typo
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10-21-2012, 03:28 AM
  #648
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Bettman would never approve the relocation of the Oilers, neither would all the other owners. The Oilers make too much $$$ for the NHL. With all the struggling US franchises, I don't see where the Oilers could possibly relocate. Quebec City is the only destination possible.

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10-21-2012, 11:23 AM
  #649
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Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
I see you missed the whole Northlands/city council debates last year. The city and Northlands both did more than their fair share of throwing tantrums and making it public in the media. The only difference is the city/Northlands posturing delayed the start of nehotiations and Katz did his at the end. Both parties have acted childish.
A lot of those "tantrums" were due to Katz requiring a non-compete clause from Northlands. Katz was acting so ridiculous that Gary Bettman had to step in. Once the non-compete clause was dropped everything started to move forward.

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10-22-2012, 02:08 AM
  #650
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A lot of those "tantrums" were due to Katz requiring a non-compete clause from Northlands. Katz was acting so ridiculous that Gary Bettman had to step in. Once the non-compete clause was dropped everything started to move forward.
When Bettman commented on the Edmonton arena situation the other day he said, "Everybody needs to just take a step back and take a deep breath."

I hope that he was talking about Katz and the rest of his company. They've been behaving absolutely ridiculous lately and I can't imagine that Gary and the rest of the BoG have a very favorable opinion of them right now with the league in the midst of this lockout mess.

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