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Old
12-14-2012, 07:37 PM
  #276
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I don't think this Needs to happen in a court at all. We've seen one other case before and it didn't involve players voting on a proposal, it involved a judge telling the players that the courts aren't a place to negotiate.

I think this is what --> you <-- want to see happen
Yes I do want to see it but the players want to prove the union has broken they need proof a vote would do that.

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12-14-2012, 07:39 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
It doesn't matter what else they do the players could just accept the current deal and show they do care more but they don't both parties treat it like a business.
But who has more at stake? Who has more principled agenda?

Someone who has dedicated their whole life to one activity, built their mind and body around it, or someone who has considered a portion of their portfolio?

I think it does matter.

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12-14-2012, 07:40 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Yes I do want to see it but the players want to prove the union has broken they need proof a vote would do that.
Prove the union is broken ....... by agreeing they don't want a union.

How much more simple can it get?

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12-14-2012, 07:44 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
But who has more at stake? Who has more principled agenda?

Someone who has dedicated their whole life to one activity, built their mind and body around it, or someone who has considered a portion of their portfolio?

I think it does matter.
It simply doesn't matter because with out the owners there is no league they have created the sport as it is. It's a cop out to say the players care more or the owners don't care as they both equally care about the league and both fundamentally care about money more then hockey or the players would have taken the last deal.

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12-14-2012, 07:45 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Prove the union is broken ....... by agreeing they don't want a union.

How much more simple can it get?
But that doesn't prove it isn't a tactic if a vote would show how badly the players disliked the last deal.

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12-14-2012, 07:46 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
It has been done before and again if the union truly had failed then why not have a vote and prove it and it would be over it makes it looks like a tactic.
Decertification has worked before as well. NFL 1989?

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12-14-2012, 07:48 PM
  #282
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Decertification has worked before as well. NFL 1989?
It worked until the players caved when the nfl brought in replacement players. But since then we have seen it fail and nhl as already filed to keep the lockout in place (the nfl did not)

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12-14-2012, 07:51 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
It simply doesn't matter because with out the owners there is no league they have created the sport as it is. It's a cop out to say the players care more or the owners don't care as they both equally care about the league and both fundamentally care about money more then hockey or the players would have taken the last deal.
Players care about the game, they should accept a deal? So by not accepting the deal is not caring for the game?

So the players should've accepted the first deal if they care about the game? Any deal?

Do you see the holes in your logic yet?

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12-14-2012, 07:52 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
But that doesn't prove it isn't a tactic if a vote would show how badly the players disliked the last deal.
It doesn't prove it is....

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12-14-2012, 07:55 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
It worked until the players caved when the nfl brought in replacement players. But since then we have seen it fail and nhl as already filed to keep the lockout in place (the nfl did not)
So it worked once and failed once. But this time it's not a toss-up?

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12-14-2012, 07:56 PM
  #286
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It worked until the players caved when the nfl brought in replacement players. But since then we have seen it fail and nhl as already filed to keep the lockout in place (the nfl did not)
Theres not way they bring in replacement players i mean whos gona watch that , but honestly the players are just being stubborn now.. they got the revenue share they want along with the make whole. NOW they have new problems? like common a 10 year CBA is great for the league and the players as most of them won't have to worry about another lockout for the rest of their careers (and the fans can enjoy some consistent NHL action).

As for the contract length I would maybe try to push the length as 5 is TOO short and will cause the contracts to be inflated which I dont get why thats the players problem but anyways, I think they need to stop what their doing and get this deal done.

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12-14-2012, 08:04 PM
  #287
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So it worked once and failed once. But this time it's not a toss-up?
Again the nfl didn't try to stop it a head of time like the nhl has. So it is 1-0 so far when it has been forseen the the league.

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12-14-2012, 08:06 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Players care about the game, they should accept a deal? So by not accepting the deal is not caring for the game?

So the players should've accepted the first deal if they care about the game? Any deal?

Do you see the holes in your logic yet?
I never said any of the bold if they cared about playing right not the would take the current deal as the only thing they don't like is the 5 year deal it doesn't stop any from being paid now and for years. You put words my mouth and found he holes you wanted.

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12-14-2012, 08:06 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Flames92 View Post
Theres not way they bring in replacement players i mean whos gona watch that , but honestly the players are just being stubborn now.. they got the revenue share they want along with the make whole. NOW they have new problems? like common a 10 year CBA is great for the league and the players as most of them won't have to worry about another lockout for the rest of their careers (and the fans can enjoy some consistent NHL action).

As for the contract length I would maybe try to push the length as 5 is TOO short and will cause the contracts to be inflated which I dont get why thats the players problem but anyways, I think they need to stop what their doing and get this deal done.
Getting top players from other leagues would still be very popular the AHL has posted some real good numbers with only decent players.

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12-14-2012, 08:13 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Again the nfl didn't try to stop it a head of time like the nhl has. So it is 1-0 so far when it has been forseen the the league.
OMG nobody knows what's going to happen!! The NFL is a national sport that doesn't have Canadian laws. Different cases, CBAs, events that transpired..... different situation!

You are arguing what YOU want to happen

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12-14-2012, 08:15 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
OMG nobody knows what's going to happen!! The NFL is a national sport that doesn't have Canadian laws. Different cases, CBAs, events that transpired..... different situation!

You are arguing what YOU want to happen
It is being dealt with in the US, I have never said I knew what was going to happen but if they want to decertify then they must prove it isn't a tactic. Just voting to decertify won't do it.

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12-14-2012, 08:15 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I never said any of the bold if they cared about playing right not the would take the current deal as the only thing they don't like is the 5 year deal it doesn't stop any from being paid now and for years. You put words my mouth and found he holes you wanted.
No, I used reasoning.

When you say "care about money more then hockey or the players would have taken the last deal", one can infer that players don't care about hockey unless they take the deal

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12-14-2012, 08:16 PM
  #293
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Getting top players from other leagues would still be very popular the AHL has posted some real good numbers with only decent players.
That's different. Nobody watches the NHL...

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12-14-2012, 08:18 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
No, I used reasoning.

When you say "care about money more then hockey or the players would have taken the last deal", one can infer that players don't care about hockey unless they take the deal
No use put words in my mouth, I specifically used this deal because it is only the contract deal they don't agree with so it doesn't affect them being able to play and get paid.

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12-14-2012, 08:19 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
It is being dealt with in the US, I have never said I knew what was going to happen but if they want to decertify then they must prove it isn't a tactic. Just voting to decertify won't do it.
Or maybe it's not the NHLPA's job to prove innocent, rather it's the NHL's job to prove guilt (prove a tactic)

Again, who knows....

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12-14-2012, 08:20 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Or maybe it's not the NHLPA's job to prove innocent, rather it's the NHL's job to prove guilt (prove a tactic)

Again, who knows....
They both have to prove the either is wrong but no vote makes it seem like a tactic so it will greatly help the nhl's standpoint.

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12-14-2012, 08:21 PM
  #297
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No use put words in my mouth, I specifically used this deal because it is only the contract deal they don't agree with so it doesn't affect them being able to play and get paid.
How do you know this is the only deal they don't agree with. And I never put words in your mouth, I simply asked some questions...

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12-14-2012, 08:23 PM
  #298
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How do you know this is the only deal they don't agree with. And I never put words in your mouth, I simply asked some questions...
But I never made any of those points nor do I agree with any of them.

It has been reported by several people that is the last major issue.

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12-14-2012, 08:32 PM
  #299
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They both have to prove the either is wrong but no vote makes it seem like a tactic so it will greatly help the nhl's standpoint.
Same judge you think? Ever been to court?

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12-14-2012, 08:41 PM
  #300
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But I never made any of those points nor do I agree with any of them.

It has been reported by several people that is the last major issue.
I never said you did? I'm not suppose to make your points for you...

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