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The 2013 NHL Entry Draft

View Poll Results: What type of player should we draft?
Powerforward [Centre/Winger] 10 5.92%
Two-Way Forward 1 0.59%
Playmaking Centre 8 4.73%
Goalscoring Winger 64 37.87%
Defensive-Defenseman 16 9.47%
Offensive-Defenseman 10 5.92%
Two-Way Defenseman 47 27.81%
Goaler 0 0%
Trade our 1st for an upgrade 4 2.37%
Other [Smallish Character Centres] 9 5.33%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-10-2013, 02:13 AM
  #251
Av-merican
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
It's hard predicting where Avs will end up, but I think they'll end up closer to 20th than 30th. They just have, and this has been going on for five years, stretches where they look like they will never beat anyone. But I think the team, despite the fundamental problems, are too good to bottom out.

It's easy to despair right after being shut out, but remember Avs are 16-15 in even strength scoring this far and we usually get special teams into an acceptable state.
Disagree. No team is getting less offense from its back line than these guys, and their special teams are abysmal. They're failing in every phase of the game. The only thing this club has going for it on a nightly basis is goaltending, and I think the bottom will drop out on that as well.

The way I see it, when a team even looks horrible on paper, I don't hold much hope of things improving.

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Old
02-10-2013, 10:09 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
11th overall pick plus a 2nd rounder for a goaltender that didn't want to be with Washington, and where the franchise in question had depth in that position. You have the blinders on if you don't think it's an overpayment from a supposedly rebuilding team.
Exactly, we were rebuilding. Varlamov is a huge piece going forward. We traded two picks that aren't even guaranteed to play in the NHL for a proven starting caliber goaltender with upside. He's one of the most talented goaltenders in the league.

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Old
02-10-2013, 11:05 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by STEVE RANDESKOGAH View Post
Let`s say we get the third overall, who would be better for us to get Barkov or Drouin?
It is what we prefer, a better two-way player or a more talented offensive player? Reminds me a lot of the debates we had of Huberdeau or Landeskog. FTR I like Barkov a tiny bit more.

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02-10-2013, 05:39 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
Exactly, we were rebuilding. Varlamov is a huge piece going forward. We traded two picks that aren't even guaranteed to play in the NHL for a proven starting caliber goaltender with upside. He's one of the most talented goaltenders in the league.
Serviceable goalies are a dime a dozen in this league. We had Anderson before he crapped the bed entirely - maybe a dip in confidence or giving up on the team - and he has recovered in Ottawa well. We're seeing previously highly touted prospects such as Bernier slowly being slowly pushed out of their respective organizations, which would be good pickups for relatively lower prices -now- than before, when it was absolutely unnecessary. Why give up undecided picks while rebuilding for something that should be the last piece to the puzzle? It's poor asset management.

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Old
02-10-2013, 05:46 PM
  #255
JoemAvs
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Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
Exactly, we were rebuilding. Varlamov is a huge piece going forward. We traded two picks that aren't even guaranteed to play in the NHL for a proven starting caliber goaltender with upside. He's one of the most talented goaltenders in the league.
Do you like the Phil Kessel deal for Toronto?

That is basically what Sherman risked.
Only that Leafs gave up 2 1sts and Kessel was a hell lot worth more than Varly at the time of the trade.

Stupid risk is stupid risk. Regardless of the outcome.

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Old
02-10-2013, 05:50 PM
  #256
Pierce Hawthorne
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Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
Serviceable goalies are a dime a dozen in this league.
First of all, this statement is false anyways. Finding even an average #1 Goaltender today is incredibly difficult. Look at all the teams right now that don't have the consistent goaltending and that are looking for help either now or within the next year or 2. NJD, TOR, FLO, SJS, WSH, CBJ, TBL, NYI, STL. That's nearly 1/3 of the league without either A) a Proven #1 Goalie, or B) Have soon to be retiring goalies and no gurantees to replace them.

By going out and getting Varlamov, the Avs got a goaltender who is a Proven #1(He is now at least, I can see the argument otherwise before last season) and has the potential to be a Top 5-10 goalie in the league still.

Just wait to see what kind of price will be paid by these teams for say Luongo, who's about the only #1 Goalie even on the market right now. Bernier might be on the market but he is even less proven then Varly was when we traded for him, and Bernier will still likely get close to what Varly got.


Was it an overpayment for Varly? Sure, the 2nd round pick probably wasn't necessary, we likely could have gotten him for a 1st. But Strong goaltending is possibly the most important thing a team needs to be successful, and we've solved that problem very early in the process.

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Old
02-10-2013, 08:08 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Do you like the Phil Kessel deal for Toronto?

That is basically what Sherman risked.
Only that Leafs gave up 2 1sts and Kessel was a hell lot worth more than Varly at the time of the trade.

Stupid risk is stupid risk. Regardless of the outcome.
The thing is, we didn't give up Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton for a one dimension scorer. We definitely were in better shape than the leafs when we did it and it wasn't two first rounders. The deals aren't even close.

Basically, Varly was a first round pick, who was proven. He was elite when healthy. I'll admit I was nervous at the time but we were a good team last year and our management saw that.

Also to NHL 33. If Berniers asking price was cheap, he would have been dealt by now.

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02-10-2013, 08:25 PM
  #258
JoemAvs
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Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
The thing is, we didn't give up Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton for a one dimension scorer. We definitely were in better shape than the leafs when we did it and it wasn't two first rounders. The deals aren't even close.

Basically, Varly was a first round pick, who was proven. He was elite when healthy. I'll admit I was nervous at the time but we were a good team last year and our management saw that.

Also to NHL 33. If Berniers asking price was cheap, he would have been dealt by now.
And why didn't we give it up? Because we got lucky and stayed relatively healthy. Look at the mess this year.

We were coming off a season where we finished 2nd to last with major question marks. How were we a good team? Look at us now. We were an 8th seed as best case scenario. We got pretty damn close to that. For once we were lucky...

Varly was not elite. That is revisionist history as well. He showed great potential but he had major injury and even character issues (KHL and starting goalie guarantee and all).

Kessel was worth way way way more than Varlamov when he got dealt.
And we finished worse than the Leafs did the year before they made the deal.
Would you have loved the Kessel trade if the picks ended up being #12 and #10?

Point is. It was a huge stupid risk. Same as with Kessel.
Sherman got lucky as hell. Burke got unlucky.
That does not make this a smart move.

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Old
02-10-2013, 08:30 PM
  #259
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You guys still arguing over the Varly trade?



















Really?

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Old
02-10-2013, 09:28 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by 18007 View Post
You guys still arguing over the Varly trade?



















Really?
This is the same fanbase that still argues about the EJ trade. Not surprising, really.

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Old
02-10-2013, 10:33 PM
  #261
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It cost us an 11th-overall pick and essentially our top puckmoving defenseman. I still like the trade, but it wasn't highway robbery one way or the other.

What, is there suddenly a statute of limitations for arguing a trade?

Same goes for the EJ trade as well. I don't see why it's so ridiculous to argue either of those deals. As of yet, neither has made the team a winner yet. If they turn it around next year, great. As of right now though, both trades were very costly and the organization has not yet addressed the holes in the lineup those trades opened up.

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Old
02-10-2013, 10:43 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
It cost us an 11th-overall pick and essentially our top puckmoving defenseman. I still like the trade, but it wasn't highway robbery one way or the other.

What, is there suddenly a statute of limitations for arguing a trade?

Same goes for the EJ trade as well. I don't see why it's so ridiculous to argue either of those deals. As of yet, neither has made the team a winner yet. If they turn it around next year, great. As of right now though, both trades were very costly and the organization has not yet addressed the holes in the lineup those trades opened up.
I mean, you're right- this is a discussion board. But then again there is discussion and there is

edit: everyone's just frustrated that we suck (and rightfully so)

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Old
02-10-2013, 11:12 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by 18007 View Post
You guys still arguing over the Varly trade?



















Really?
Agreed. I just get annoyed at fans sometimes. It seems that when things go down hill they manage to find something wrong with everything. If we were winning right now, people would be praising management, praising the Varly trade, praising our drafting.

Final point. We traded a first and a second for a proven starting goaltender. Yes it could have been a big piece going back, but we had a big piece coming in. You can look at all the hypotheticals but I love the trade, Sherman shows balls with his trades and I really like managements ability to assess talent.

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02-10-2013, 11:35 PM
  #264
JoemAvs
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Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
Agreed. I just get annoyed at fans sometimes. It seems that when things go down hill they manage to find something wrong with everything. If we were winning right now, people would be praising management, praising the Varly trade, praising our drafting.

Final point. We traded a first and a second for a proven starting goaltender. Yes it could have been a big piece going back, but we had a big piece coming in. You can look at all the hypotheticals but I love the trade, Sherman shows balls with his trades and I really like managements ability to assess talent.
That is fine. I just don't like that Sherm is getting praise for this.

I really disliked him at first. Than he kind of turned me around with the Flash and Mules trade but if we are honest, we did not get anything out of any of those deals. I am fine with the EJ trade but what he pulled afterwards definitely deserves major criticism. If you want to exclude the Varly trade that is fine. I do not.

I am just not a fan.
And if you want to dig up this one thread on the main board, you will see that I predicted this kind of season for the Avs. So it is not really doom and gloom with me...
Back to topic:

I think Pracey is great but we have yet to show that we can hit on non-top-5 picks with guys that are not undersized forwards...


Last edited by JoemAvs: 02-10-2013 at 11:42 PM.
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Old
02-10-2013, 11:35 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
Agreed. I just get annoyed at fans sometimes. It seems that when things go down hill they manage to find something wrong with everything. If we were winning right now, people would be praising management, praising the Varly trade, praising our drafting.

Final point. We traded a first and a second for a proven starting goaltender. Yes it could have been a big piece going back, but we had a big piece coming in. You can look at all the hypotheticals but I love the trade, Sherman shows balls with his trades and I really like managements ability to assess talent.
I don't see anything wrong with fans criticizing a team for sucking and analyzing WHY they suck and how they got to be so sucky. It's perfectly legitimate for fans to question whether this management team knows what its doing. And yeah, those criticisms stop when the team wins. What's wrong with that? We demand our money's worth, and when we don't get it, we complain. This team isn't worth seeing right now. I obviously don't speak for everyone here, but I expected progress toward the end goal. Instead I'm seeing nothing but regression.

When things go downhill? They've been going downhill for a long time now. It's not like fans are suddenly eviscerating the Lacroix Brain Trust for a recent losing skid.

And until the talent they drafted proves itself AND sticks around (not like Wolski/Stewart) then you're judging this team's ability to draft and make trades on nothing but "hypotheticals". In the end, this team isn't winning, and until it does, we can't say for sure that the rebuild is working.

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02-12-2013, 12:24 PM
  #266
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=97

Interesting

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02-12-2013, 12:42 PM
  #267
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Drouin looks more impressive on the offensive side of the game in the QMJHL, but I see MacKinnon's game translating better into the NHL.

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02-12-2013, 01:15 PM
  #268
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Drouin looks more impressive on the offensive side of the game in the QMJHL, but I see MacKinnon's game translating better into the NHL.
... ANd in the WJC apprently. That's really hard to say, but from what I've seen(not much) and read Drouin has the higher IQ, better vision and puck skills, while Nathan has a better shot and speed. Taking all things into consideration JD's game would translate better. PLus, we can call Drouin JD and I loved Scrubs.

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02-12-2013, 01:22 PM
  #269
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Both are going to be good players and great top 5 picks. I'd be plenty happy with either one.

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02-12-2013, 01:30 PM
  #270
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Currently Columbus has the 2nd and 3rd pick.. So they could get both of them (assuming teh Caps take Seth). We'd be at 4.

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02-12-2013, 01:43 PM
  #271
Pierce Hawthorne
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Both are going to be good players and great top 5 picks. I'd be plenty happy with either one.
Im not entirely sold on the 2 of them by themselves.

They've developed some amazing chemistry together, and I just don't think either one of them would be as effective without the other playing alongside them.

I think unless a team can manage to get 2 Top 3 picks and aquire both of them, they wont be the best players from this draft, not even top 5.

If they were drafted separately this is how I would rate them and hope the Avs would when targeting these guys.

Jones
Barkov
Lindholm
Mackinnon
Drouin
Nichushkin
Shinkaruk
Nurse
Dadorov


That's something like my Top 9, after the first 5 its pretty interchangeable, but I feel Lindhold, Barkov, and Jones will all be better then Drouin/Mackinnon if they aren't drafted together.

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02-12-2013, 01:52 PM
  #272
TatteredTornNFrayed
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Does anyone have a definitive link to the draft lottery odds this year?

Is it just the same odds as recent seasons with the restriction on moving up only 4 spots removed? And does anyone know if that is the same for future years, or just this year?

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02-12-2013, 01:54 PM
  #273
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Does anyone have a definitive link to the draft lottery odds this year?

Is it just the same odds as recent seasons with the restriction on moving up only 4 spots removed?
Nope, now you can finish as high as 9th in your conference and still draft 1st overall.

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02-12-2013, 02:06 PM
  #274
henchman24
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Im not entirely sold on the 2 of them by themselves.

They've developed some amazing chemistry together, and I just don't think either one of them would be as effective without the other playing alongside them.

I think unless a team can manage to get 2 Top 3 picks and aquire both of them, they wont be the best players from this draft, not even top 5.

If they were drafted separately this is how I would rate them and hope the Avs would when targeting these guys.

Jones
Barkov
Lindholm
Mackinnon
Drouin
Nichushkin
Shinkaruk
Nurse
Dadorov


That's something like my Top 9, after the first 5 its pretty interchangeable, but I feel Lindhold, Barkov, and Jones will all be better then Drouin/Mackinnon if they aren't drafted together.
I disagree that they will be worse separated, but at this point it is all opinion based. Both have great skills, and in some parts of their games they could be elite. The top 5-6 of this draft is very very good, then it falls to just a solid draft.

My 6 in that group (in order):
Jones
MacKinnon
Drouin
Barkov
Lindholm
Ristolainen (I'm probably higher on him than most, and he is very much fringe in this group)

After that I see (my order, but could change quickly):
Erne
Shinkaruk
Nurse
Monahan (though I'm scared of him staying on the 67s)
Hagg
Nichushkin

If the Avs can't get Jones there are 3 players that could probably run a second line in a few years. A top 5 pick almost assures that we get a future top pairing D or a #2C.

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02-12-2013, 02:27 PM
  #275
SoundwaveIsCharisma
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If the Avs don't have a top-5, I don't mind them trading down a bit. I really like Hagg and Nichushkin.

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