HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Carolina Hurricanes
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

HoF (I know too early)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-18-2012, 10:44 AM
  #1
agent22red
10/10/14
 
agent22red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 2,181
vCash: 206
HoF (I know too early)

Good afternoon Carolina fans! The lockout has been making me think about how these lost years are effecting career stats and accomplishments.

Now I know Cam Ward didnt miss the 04 one, but if this season is locked out he of course will miss a full season. Cam, along with Brodeur, are my all time favorite goaltenders (khabs is 3rd).

My question is what stats and accomplishments does wardo need to get into the hall?

agent22red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 11:08 AM
  #2
CarolinaCaniac
Registered User
 
CarolinaCaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 107
vCash: 500
Ward is somewhat screwed by the quality (or lack thereof) of the defense in front of him. Carolina would need to evolve into a dynasty and grab a few cups for Wardo to sniff the Hall.

CarolinaCaniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 11:10 AM
  #3
agent22red
10/10/14
 
agent22red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 2,181
vCash: 206
Do you think with another cup and, if he played long enough, 400 wins? Or would he need more?

agent22red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 11:11 AM
  #4
agent22red
10/10/14
 
agent22red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 2,181
vCash: 206
400 is a stretch, id like to see him end up with 350

agent22red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 11:21 AM
  #5
Anton Dubinchuk
Danny Markov
 
Anton Dubinchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,681
vCash: 1505
If we win another Cup, he'll win another Conn Smythe (can't see the former happening without the latter). If that's the case, given otherwise regular projections for wins and stats (although with the way this team's looking he might be getting a couple more wins per year than his average), I think he's got a shot. But again, we'd have to win another Cup and he'd have to win another Conn Smythe, easier said than done.

Anton Dubinchuk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 11:58 AM
  #6
agent22red
10/10/14
 
agent22red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 2,181
vCash: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
If we win another Cup, he'll win another Conn Smythe (can't see the former happening without the latter). If that's the case, given otherwise regular projections for wins and stats (although with the way this team's looking he might be getting a couple more wins per year than his average), I think he's got a shot. But again, we'd have to win another Cup and he'd have to win another Conn Smythe, easier said than done.
Id like to see that.

agent22red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 12:09 PM
  #7
impeach estaalo
RIPronrefo nevar4get
 
impeach estaalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,604
vCash: 50
- 1 top 10 season in sv%
- 1 Conn Smythe
- 1 Stanley Cup
- 0 Vezinas or any other award outside of the above
- 0 post season 1st or 2nd All-Star Team Selections
- Plays for small market team

I'd say no chance whatsoever. He's an above average but not elite goalie and that's already taking into account the poor defense/team factor. Purely on stats and awards he's not even average.

He'll have an impressive win total when it's all said and done, but it's not that difficult to accumulate a bunch of wins when you start 70 games a year for 20 years, which we all know will happen because Jim Rutherford is a moron.

impeach estaalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-18-2012, 11:08 PM
  #8
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,180
vCash: 500
The Cup and Smythe are already checked off his list. His HOF chances won't be about duplicating them.

The biggest thing is that Ward is not in the Vezina-contender category of goalies, and that is what defines eliteness to most critics. So to have a shot, he will NEED to win at least one Vezina. I can't see that being optional.

If he were to win a Vezina at some point, adding it to his Cup and Smythe, he'd be in the conversation. At that point it hinges on his longevity, especially how many regular-season games he wins, and whether he is able to generate further Vezina attention and playoff reputation.

I'd say his chances are significant enough to mention, but still very low. He would need to really step it up into the Lundqvist/Rinne/Thomas category for at least a few years to have a good shot.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-19-2012, 10:21 PM
  #9
jumptheshark
Give the dog a bone
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 52,583
vCash: 1850
With goalies it is hard to say, but in the case of ward there is very little that is special about him.

Jean-Sebastien Giguere would get consideration as well then.

Ward would need to get to over 400 wins and win a lot more trophies to get in

__________________
not sure how--but the fish just jumped in the boat and put the hook in it's mouth
52299/14814
The twenty year rebuild is on!!! Embrace the suck
jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 12:35 AM
  #10
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,180
vCash: 500
It should also be noted that goalies have an extremely high standard for making the Hall of Fame.

Billy Smith
Grant Fuhr
Patrick Roy
Ed Belfour

That's your last 20 years of goalies getting into the Hall. Brodeur and Hasek are the only clear-cut locks among recent players.

It's extremely difficult to imagine Ward ever joining a group that's THAT selective.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 10:38 AM
  #11
Anton Dubinchuk
Danny Markov
 
Anton Dubinchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,681
vCash: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
It should also be noted that goalies have an extremely high standard for making the Hall of Fame.

Billy Smith
Grant Fuhr
Patrick Roy
Ed Belfour

That's your last 20 years of goalies getting into the Hall. Brodeur and Hasek are the only clear-cut locks among recent players.

It's extremely difficult to imagine Ward ever joining a group that's THAT selective.
Two Vezinas and Ward's got Belfour's credentials (a couple more All-Star games as well, but if he wins the Vezina you'd think he'd make it).

On an off note, I'd definitely say Lundqvist is a candidate for the Hall...

Anton Dubinchuk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 11:35 AM
  #12
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 31,163
vCash: 2498
Yeah some of the recent guys are going to make it an interesting discussion to be sure.

Thomas, as controversial as he was this past season, has to be a solid candidate. His NHL career has been short but his peak's been the best we've seen since Hasek at his prime. Only 7 full NHL seasons and he has 2 Vezinas (also first team AS both seasons), a cup, and a Conn Smythe. He'll get in, IMO, and if not he'll be the best player not in the Hall, which includes Mikhailov and JC Tremblay (ya, i serius).

Kipper has a fairly strong shot as well. 3rd and 4th in Hart voting, a Vezina with other finishes of 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. Doesn't have the post-season hardware but he did have a run to the finals. Fairly borderline for making it unless he gets traded somewhere and takes them to a cup (Tampa?) IMO.

Lundqvist is a stronger candidate as he's had far more team success then Kipper and is perceived far more as carrying his team until recently.

Luongo is basically the modern Curtis Joseph, the Olympic Gold is about the only thing that stands out as an HoF worthy accolade despite the consistently strong career numbers. Biggest thing is that he's perceived as a playoff choker (despite a few strong showings), and he was never good enough to take Florida to the playoffs unlike Lundqvist with some sub-par Rangers teams post-lockout. Basically, his time in Vancouver is being looked at like many in a similar context to Osgood in Detroit. He'd have to win at least a Smythe and a Cup, or a couple Vezinas at this point IMO.

and of course there's some older guys like Liut, Joseph, Beezer, Richter, Vernon, and Barrasso that are continually under consideration that just seem to come short of the cutoff.

TL/DR version:

Basically, if Cam wants to make it he needs to up his game just a bit. A Vezina (which would arguably give him a better resume then anyone I listed aside from Thomas) would put him in strong consideration. But unless the Canes become a consistent playoff team, or he does win that Vezina, he's going to be in the Luongo department of career resumes, and he needs to get at least into Kipper/Lundqvist territory. Cam will probably have the numbers backing in terms of sheer wins numbers and he does have a reputation as being clutch in the post-season: see 06 and 09 (pre-injury) runs where he won the Conn Smythe and was the favorite for it before the injury.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 11:46 AM
  #13
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Two Vezinas and Ward's got Belfour's credentials (a couple more All-Star games as well, but if he wins the Vezina you'd think he'd make it).
Make that 5 more All Star games, 3 postseason All Star teams, 4 Jennings Trophies, nearly 300 more wins in the regular season, 65 more playoff wins, an Olympic gold medal, and a fourth Vezina finalist on top of the 2 he still needs to win first. Ideally with his best years in large markets with lots of playoff exposure.

Ward doesn't sniff Belfour's legacy. But he's a nicer guy.

Quote:
On an off note, I'd definitely say Lundqvist is a candidate for the Hall...
Maybe if he adds significantly to his record before he retires.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 12:21 PM
  #14
Anton Dubinchuk
Danny Markov
 
Anton Dubinchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,681
vCash: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Make that 5 more All Star games, 3 postseason All Star teams, 4 Jennings Trophies, nearly 300 more wins in the regular season, 65 more playoff wins, an Olympic gold medal, and a fourth Vezina finalist on top of the 2 he still needs to win first. Ideally with his best years in large markets with lots of playoff exposure.

Ward doesn't sniff Belfour's legacy. But he's a nicer guy.
Again, if Ward wins a Vezina or two, the All-Star games come with that. Belfour never won a Conn Smythe. That makes up for two or three of the Jennings'. Not to mention Belfour was a surefire Hall of Famer, inducted in his first year of eligibility. It's not like Cam needs to match Belfour award for award in order to make it.

Anton Dubinchuk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 12:22 PM
  #15
Anton Dubinchuk
Danny Markov
 
Anton Dubinchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,681
vCash: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Maybe if he adds significantly to his record before he retires.
No ****.

Anton Dubinchuk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 12:30 PM
  #16
Zombie Mike Murphy
Registered User
 
Zombie Mike Murphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 737
vCash: 500
Interesting that you don't mention the guy that I think is most likely to stand in Cam's way (not that I think either gets in as it stands): Pekka Rinne.

Zombie Mike Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 01:46 PM
  #17
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 31,163
vCash: 2498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troll Ward View Post
Interesting that you don't mention the guy that I think is most likely to stand in Cam's way (not that I think either gets in as it stands): Pekka Rinne.
Rinne's in that Luongo territory to me personally. Shorter career but very similar statistically... and likewise playing behind an excellent team that will help his numbers, but not a near-dynastic team by any means, which will actually hurt his case. The perception on Nashville goalies is that the place is just simply a factory. Basically if they have any kind of competent goaltending the defense will take care of the rest. Even Dan Ellis looked like a world beater the season he was starter there after Vokoun and before Rinne's star started to shine.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 02:05 PM
  #18
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
No ****.
You say that like it was obvious from what you wrote.

As of now, Lundqvist is not an especially strong candidate. If he walked away and retired, he would not make it and it wouldn't be very close either. He needs to have a decently strong 5 years or so, including a signature playoff run, before he can make a serious argument to be inducted over guys like Joseph and Barrasso, neither of whom is on the verge of induction any time soon.

The more we talk about this the more I realize that Ward would need to basically redefine his career in order to even be in the conversation. One big playoff run doesn't make a Hall of Fame career.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 02:14 PM
  #19
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 31,163
vCash: 2498
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
You say that like it was obvious from what you wrote.

As of now, Lundqvist is not an especially strong candidate. If he walked away and retired, he would not make it and it wouldn't be very close either. He needs to have a decently strong 5 years or so, including a signature playoff run, before he can make a serious argument to be inducted over guys like Joseph and Barrasso, neither of whom is on the verge of induction any time soon.

The more we talk about this the more I realize that Ward would need to basically redefine his career in order to even be in the conversation. One big playoff run doesn't make a Hall of Fame career.
Just one more big playoff run, no. One more playoff run capped off with another Cup and another Conn Smythe might be enough to put him on the brink of it though. But he probably needs a solid 5-7 year stretch where he's a consistent Vezina finalist, likely winning at least one, to really bolster his case. Backstopping Canada to Olympic Gold would help too.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 02:15 PM
  #20
Anton Dubinchuk
Danny Markov
 
Anton Dubinchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,681
vCash: 1505
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
You say that like it was obvious from what you wrote.

As of now, Lundqvist is not an especially strong candidate. If he walked away and retired, he would not make it and it wouldn't be very close either. He needs to have a decently strong 5 years or so, including a signature playoff run, before he can make a serious argument to be inducted over guys like Joseph and Barrasso, neither of whom is on the verge of induction any time soon.

The more we talk about this the more I realize that Ward would need to basically redefine his career in order to even be in the conversation. One big playoff run doesn't make a Hall of Fame career.
I thought it was. I apologize if it wasn't.

Anton Dubinchuk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 02:20 PM
  #21
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
I thought it was. I apologize if it wasn't.
No problem. It's hard to tell sometimes, especially on a subject like this where it's all speculation about the future anyway. I thought Thomas was well on his way to being a stone-cold lock, then he just up and walks away from the game.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 02:22 PM
  #22
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Just one more big playoff run, no. One more playoff run capped off with another Cup and another Conn Smythe might be enough to put him on the brink of it though. But he probably needs a solid 5-7 year stretch where he's a consistent Vezina finalist, likely winning at least one, to really bolster his case. Backstopping Canada to Olympic Gold would help too.
Backstopping Canada to gold would be an automatic induction, of course

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 02:46 PM
  #23
impeach estaalo
RIPronrefo nevar4get
 
impeach estaalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,604
vCash: 50
No chance of that happening. Canada is a declining hockey power. Most kids in Canada would rather listen to Nickelback and do meth than play hockey. Quebec has produced like three quality NHL players since the last lockout. The immigration numbers don't help, either. For every Nazem Kadri who dreams of being a mediocre AHL grinder, there's millions of others who would rather continue living their own culture than adopting the backwards, 7th-century Canadian lifestyle.

impeach estaalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 05:10 PM
  #24
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 32,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summer Ruutu View Post
Quebec has produced like three quality NHL players since the last lockout.
You know it's bad when Anthony Stewart and Drayson Bowman are two of the best RWs your province has produced in 7 years.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2012, 05:12 PM
  #25
impeach estaalo
RIPronrefo nevar4get
 
impeach estaalo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,604
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
You know it's bad when Anthony Stewart and Drayson Bowman are two of the best RWs your province has produced in 7 years.
Isn't Bowman from 'Murica?

impeach estaalo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.